New rules for old models

So we got new rules for flamers, screamers and the new chariots. I was wondering if you guys think any of them are worth taking. On other forums people seem the think the new flamers are the best thing ever, but I am really not convinced. Same for screamers it is great they can get by 2+ saves and can still take out tanks, but they just seem like bolter bait to me and they are kinda pricey for that.

I could see taking a small unit of screamers and I plan on taking 3 flamers at 2k now. Is it just me or is it all hype? The chariots seem like a decent choice. I want to try dnets at troops so I probably not take them. I exulted and two reg units and 2 units seems like a strong choice though.

I wish they would add the rules to the FAQ while they are at it.

Anyone had some experience with them ?

At first glance, and without delving too much into it:

Flamers got a buffed profile, and dropped to roughly 2/3 their previous cost. They were pretty awesome before, now they are the shiz.

Screamers likewise got a major buff but got a corresponding price hike. However, given that they are now a viable close combat threat against pretty much anything except Wraithlords, I believe they are still a bargain. I can almost justify dropping the bletters and replacing them with screamers.

As a mainly Tzeentch player I am loving this update.

In the last White Dwarf there was a Battle report from CD vs Eldar/Dark eldar were an Exalted chariot w. HoS w. pavane was used with great results. Seems like a very nice choice having a 5+ inv save. Am abit intressted in playing a 2 Seekers chariot and an Exalted chariot in a squad w. pavane. The 2 Seekers chariots as a shield to get an unharmed Exalted assault w. 4 HP meaning there will be 5 D6 rending attacks att initiative 10!! That **** even hurts tanks!

Screamers and flamers seems like the shiz and I can see there beeing a lot of play time for for these units. Having flamers, screamers, fiends and Exalted chariots in play at the same time will make the choice very hard for the enemy who to gun at first and even if 2 units bite the bullit the other 2 will make it and they will make a slaughter out of it. I love the new updates, they really have made CD so much more fun to play even thou we still lack alot in heavy shooting thats were allies come in. Orks and CSM will make an new edition in my home, Orks heavy shooting (whoe cares if they hit on 6īs vs flyers thats what they hit normaly) and alot of CSM nurgle.
Canīt wait for winter to come and more playtime with it!!! =)

Flamers were always great, as Breath of Chaos has always been great, and now that they're a smidge more survivable and cheaper to boot, what's not to like? I think the only reason peeps weren't playing them before was because of Bloodcrushers being great, but now that they're a lil' less appealing, I'm going flamers all the way with my elite slot.

Remember...BoC, on top of being able to wreck any infantry unit can also glance on a 4+. With glances stripping hull points, flamers have now also become amazing anti-tank as well. They're our jack-of-all-trades unit that enemies MUST shoot to death, as assaulting flamers is simply not an option.

Honestly, Flamers have arguably become the best unit in the demon codex. My Necron force would prioritize them #1 unit to remove from the board and there really isn't a close second.

I just can't see comparing flamers to fiends. They are just as survivable in terms of stats, but a lot of the time you are going to have to deep strike them in a less of a safe place. If you take more then 3 you are wasting a lot of breath shoots. even with over-watch you average 1 kill per flamer if they have no inv, but the things that want to assault them can lose they with out caring and every thing else can just shoot them to death.

Fiends can be faster, charging and hit and run, they can get stuck in combat to dodge shooting, can still handle hoards , have rending and can handle tanks.

I guess ill just have to try them out. I was going to run 1-2 units of 3 any better way to run them ?

Screams have the same glass hammer problem as a lot of our units, they maybe are new answer to tanks , but they get shot up really easily and you are hoping they go simultaneously with whatever they charge. Either way the will probably be gone before the next combat.

Did any one notice there is no restriction on swarms holding objectives, or did I miss something?

Flamers are suicide drop units. Drop them next to a high-priority target unit and flame away - who cares if they die next turn? You don't even need to be particularly lucky with the scatter roll, just so long as you are not unlucky.

And now that they are only 2/3 of the cost, they are even better at this job.

On page 123 in the rulebook it still says that swarms donīt count as scoring.

I don't think they count as denial units either.

You can't really compare Fiends to Flamers, they do very different jobs within our army. The only real points of comparison is that they have the same resilience now and are both Elites. It's much more appropraite to compare Fiends with Screamers, as they are both reasonably tough, fast moving combat units. Fiends are better fighters for sure, but Screamers are cheaper and better against armour (both troops and vehicles).

Flamers are definitely way better than before imo, tougher and a lot cheaper. If you are planning to use them as a suicide unit then would you rather spend 105pts or 69pts on it? The extra 36pts saves can be pretty useful. I don't think suicide drops is the only viable option though. You can always drop them a bit further away like you would with Fiends or Horrors and use their Warpfire in the first turn, then bounce forwards and BoC away the next turn. If your going to do that then bigger units are obviously better, so its good you can now buy 5 Flamers for just 10pts more than 3 of them cost before. Seven Flamers costs less than your typical 6 Fiend unit, and think of the damage that many BoC could do.....

Looking at Screamers they also got better (except against vehicles with a decent rear armour) but their points increase means they are worth their cost rather than being no-brainers. Screamers were looking a lot better anyway this edition thanks to the new rules for attacking vehicles and monsters in combat, but these changes makes the unit a lot less one-dimensional. It will probably take a while to figure out how best to use these guys as their potential uses have changed so much, but I reckon they will be seen a lot more often in Daemon lists from now on.

As for the Chariots, I don't really have an opinion on them yet but they are reasonably cheap which is good for our army as we don't have many cheap units that can actually accomplish anything, and immune to bolter fire, which is a definite bonus.

On page 123 in the rulebook it still says that swarms donīt count as scoring.

It's worse than that, as under denial units, it lists swarms as units that can't be used as denial units.

You can't contest with nurglings anymore either. They got a bit worse.

Of the new changes I think flamers are freaking amazing now. They got cheaper and got a bonus wound. I think they are the most versatile elite slot now as they can melt both infantry units and glance/wreck vehicles via hull points.

You also need to understand the full rules changes with them. They are practically immune to assault now as overwatch means each flamer deals 1d3 breath HITS upon declaration of the assault (regardless of range). With the discounted price, you can take them in larger numbers and ensure assault attempts are too costly to try, or that when attempted you'll kill enough to prevent them from reaching you through heavy casualties to their front lines.

With the jump infantry movement and a more forgiving deep strike mishap table, they are excellent choices for your front line forces. Deep strike them in the face of the enemy and breath away, using warpfire as a backup if you are out of range or out of position to lay down a breath. Their threat will draw fire to them, ensuring your demonettes or bletters arrive with less resistance and help get those killy units into CC.

Where is this more forgiving mishap table? I can only find the table that is 1-2 you die, 3-4 your opponent chooses where to put it, 5-6 delayed.... Which is exactly hat it was before

Now itīs
1 Terrible accident, 2-3 Misplaced, 4-6 Delayed.

What Chaos4reaL said.

P.36 in the rulebook

I read it wrong. Looked the same, but then again, so did the VDC.

Is the only way to get a copy of the new rules to by a digital copy from gamesworkshop, because if so, I'm screwed. I don't have a computer (using an old Itouch) and I am not spending $30 for a single issue of white dwarf, a magazine dedicated to advertising their plastic crap and nothing else. It is really annoying.

I mean I could go by what people say here, but I need like a factual "this is wht it is, here is where I am getting this rule" citation for tournaments and friends (and myself)

Right now it's only in WD. 30 bucks though? Isn't it 6 or 7?

And yeah, flamers work great in larger numbers. In 5th I played them in squads of 5-7. I loved facing terminators.