2.4k Comp Tournament, list development

I am trying to develop a competitive tournament army.
The relevant comp is:

No units bigger than 400pts (for daemons, everyone else is 450pts).
0-6 flamers
0-3 units with "fly"
no more than 2 additional power dice excluding channeling

I ran a list pretty close to Brother Maynard's in this thread.

2400 Pts - Daemons of Chaos Roster

1 Great Unclean One, 585 pts General; Level 2 Wizard
1 Balesword
1 Pestilent Mucus

1 Herald of Khorne (Battle Standard Bearer), 225 pts
1 Great Standard of Sundering
1 Obsidian Armour

1 Herald of Khorne, 140 pts
1 Armour of Khorne
1 Firestorm Blade

1 Herald of Tzeentch, 165 pts
Master of Sorcery-The Lore of Death
Spell Breaker


30 Bloodletters of Khorne, 378 pts Musician Standard Bearer
30 Bloodletters of Khorne, 378 pts Musician Standard Bearer
5 Chaos Furies, 60 pts


1 Bloodcrushers of Khorne, 70 pts
1 Bloodcrushers of Khorne, 70 pts
1 Fiends of Slaanesh, 55 pts
1 Fiends of Slaanesh, 55 pts
6 Flamers of Tzeentch, 210 pts

I had 2 games with it, the first against High Elves. This was an interesting game, I deployed to try and take on his army in 2 parts around the terrain, but in the end the BL hordes struggled to manoeuver well. One unit never saw combat, the other smashed his swordmasters that had me pretty worried.

Not sure what I learned here other than to manouver better. 2 level 4s with Death and Life made my standard less useful for magic defence than it could have.
I would have been better off deploying the bloodletters to get into combat quicker and buffing them I think.

My GuO never saw combat but between the nurglings he generated his terror and general all around bad-assery he had a big effect on the game.

My second game was a humiliating defeat against lizards.
I made a really stupid mistake of charging some skinks with my furies and ended up blocking my own bloodlettters for 2 turns.
He just out-chaffed me though, 2 skinks, 2 chamelion skinks, 2 units of terradoons made life a nightmare, they fled from my charges, came back, fled again... it was torture.
My GuO was star of the show again, he wiped out a saurus combat block single handed, although it took him forever but he only took 2 wounds in the process.

My thoughts on what to change.
I didn't rate the death magic, the idea was to snipe characters but I really struggled to pull it off.
I feel that a level 4 might serve me better than the sundering standard as I really missed having light. It is hard to tell against 2 magic-heavy armies though.

I need better chaff-destruction abilities, I dealt with 3 eagles well enough, the 12-22" charge on the fiends is great to run stuff down once something else gets it fleeing. But I really struggled against the lizzards, who used their chaff very well, every turn I was hemmed in and struggling to move as I wanted.

I didn't like having the tzerald in the flamer unit. 2 units of 3 would have been helpful and wouldn't have had to worry about making sure the herald was facing in the right direction.


I'm not sure what to do to fix things though. I think dropping the sundering banner so I can use light will mean there is very little the bloodletters have to be afraid of.
Running the letters 6 or 7 wide should help their manouverability and I got very little out of the horde formation with only 30 in the unit.

I'm a little stuck because having a light tzerald and a L4 GD is just such a waste, as you will still only be able to cast the usual 3 or 4 spells in a good turn and having a l4 GD means you cant give him many gifts.

The basic options as I see them are:
1. Lv4 GD, Tzerald Nice spells and defence but a lot of waste.
2. Lv1/2 GD, Tzerald Less wasted magic but lacking a lot of magic defence and casting power.
3. Lv4 GD Nice casting power and defence on a tough caster, but I either need a LoC with MoS which means I cant have a scroll or have to do without all the nice BRB magic.
4. Screw magic. Take a character assasin bloodthirster, flesh hounds, and hope for the best. I'm tempted but this leaves me even less able to deal with chaff.

OK, I've come up with a couple of options.

The core stuff stays about the same, most of the variation is in the heroes and lords.
2 x 30 bloodletters
2 x bloodcrushers
2 x fiends
5x furies
2 x 3 flamers

There is option A. - Crazy magic
2 x Tzerald, loremaster, scroll. One light one life
1 x GuO pestilent mucous (T test or take a wound for anyone in base contact when he takes a wound), S4 breath weapon, Lv1 Nurgle
Blue scribes (get a magic dice to use in your turn every time your opponent casts)
Herald of Khorne BSB 3+ armour

I like the heralds for the spell choice but I have no bunkers for them so they are relying on hiding and a 4+ ward save.
I only have a herald for one BL unit.

Option B. - More balanced magic
GuO Lv4, S4 breath weapon
Herald of Tzeench, loremaster Light, scroll, chariot
Herald of Khorne BSB 3+ armour
Herald of Khorne 3+ armour, +1S flaming sword

I like the idea of the chariot, it should be OK vs chaff and gets the herald T4 and 4 wounds, but he loses his look out sir.

Option C. - Somewhere inbetween
GuO Lv2, Mucous, balesword
Herald of Khorne, 3+ armour, BSB
Herald of Khorne 3+ armour, +1S flaming sword

This is 96 points under. I could add in the Masque and -2 LD banner, but I'm not sure where to get the extra points from, dropping the flaming sword and 2 bloodletters still leaves me 22 over.

Other options would be change the greater daemon. I don't really want a LoC, I'm unconvinced they are worth the points. A KoS could be tempting too for the leadership shennanigans if I went down that route. Or a Bloodthirster and make more changes to make the whole list more aggressive.

The other option would be to drop a greater all together, that would get me 30 more core with 200 points left over for something else, fleshounds maybe.

What do you guys think?

it sounds like you're pretty set on the level 4. have you tried an army with only a level 2 before? how did it work out for you? i would personally suggest running a light herald on foot and 1 or 2 levels on the GUO. it leaves you without the dispelling +4 but i've not missed it much. i know a lot of people fell naked without it though. i played an event with a level 4 GUO and a light herald, and i won't do that again because they are both PD hogs. maybe you could compromise, do a level 3 GUO with mucus and the breath weapon and light on the tzerald?

3 spells from the lore of nurgle is good, +3 to dispel is definitely more noticeable than +2, but you still have a good combo of gifts on the GUO.

as for dropping the GD completely, a lot of people will tell you that is the more competitive choice, but i disagree. my experiences with all herald lists is that they run over weaker players but against good players with strong lists, the games turn into your game #2 vs lizards. maneuvering 3 hordes is not fun, especially when playing on a table with a building (against someone who knows how to screw you with it) or against a list like that lizard one.

i'm taking her to a local event in 2 weeks to decide if i'll take her to the next GT, i'll let you know how i get on.

OK, I think I've come up with something I am happy with. Gonna give it a go against lizzards in a bit.

GuO L4, Mucous 595

HoT, MoS Shadow, SB 165
HoK, BSB, AoK, Sundering 190
HoK, AoK 115

30 BL, FC 390
29 BL, FC 378
5 Furies 60

3 Screamers 120
3 Screamers 120

Grinder, Claw 260


I'm a bit concerned about a lack of power dice. But shadow has some nice synergy with nurgle and if he has to spend PD in his phase to remove debuffs that should really help out shutting down his magic.
Plus if I have a really good phase occams on the screamers will make them killing machines.

I think I might miss the opportunity to buff my 'letters but with a herald in both units they should get by without it.

No Flamers? Are you sure? [Just kidding!]

2 units of 3 Screamers ought to make your 5 Furies rather obsolete, no? Not that saving 60pts really gets you anywhere, I guess. Perhaps drop the Furies and a Bloodletter for a lone Crusher? Or keep that Bloodletter and just get a Fiend with five Points to spare.. (?)

the furies are for dropping in front of charges that are going to screw you, screamers are way too expensive for that.

That went very well. Tabled him for the loss of a bloodletter horde, my BSB and the furies.

The GuO miscast in the first turn and lost 3 levels, but the magic still went OK. So I may consider dropping him to l2 and giving him some toys. I don't want to miss out on all those shiny spells and the shadow/nurgle synergy though so I'm not sure.
If I do I may consider going with a different lore. Metal maybe? Or beasts.
The grinder did quite well, pairing him up with the GuO for 2d6 thunderstomps worked out well. Even if it took him 3 combat rounds to kill 10 skinks initially.

The furies did very little except provide cover for my herald, I kept them behind the letters to kill off fleeing units but it took me a while to break anything.

I'm not sure about dropping them/swapping them, I like the flexibility flying gives you and they are harder to shoot away than a fiend would be. I was thinking of dropping them and trying to squeeze the points out for another screamer unit, but I would like a unit to redirect stuff I really don't want to fight. Chosenstars, mournfang and the like and they are cheap enough to use as a speedbump.

The screamers did well, can't point to any one particular thing they did but the threat they provide was useful for controlling his movement.

I've been faffing with my list again.

I haven't been massively impressed with the soul grinder. If it was on a sensible base it wouldn't be so bad, but on the 150x100mm base makes it very difficult to manouver and a massive target.
I wanted to drop it and fit in 6 fiends but I just cant find the points for that. I've made it 5 fiends which I hope should be quite effective. I may run them as a 2x2 block and a single one, but I'm not sure yet.

I've also gone back to my initial leadership bombing idea. The sundering standard is nice but I'm not completely sold on it.
I've switched the sundering standard for the Icon of despair and slipped the masque in there.
I also switched the lore on the HoT for death. The plan is to try and assassinate his BSB and get doom and darkness on his general, combined with the masque and the standard of despair that should make a real mess of his leadership.
I was put off as it is quite a lot of points that will be ineffective against some armies, but even the armies it isnt great against it should still have some effect. The masque can always go with -movement, and the HoT can concentrate on assasination. The standard may even be useful for crumble tests and such so I figure its only wasting a few points even against the armies it's least effective against.

Of course things wont go completely to plan, they never do but hopefully the threat of purple sun should let me slip something good through.

I'm not 100% on the 2 scrolls, I think I may end up wanting those points elsewhere but with no real buffs for my own troops I'm going to have to be able to dispel their key buffs/hexes on the critical turns.

Thirster 530
Aok
CoK
IF
SB

The Masque 90

HoK 115
AoK

HoK 215
BSB Icon of Despair
AoK

HoT 165
MoS
SB

30 BL, Standard, Music 378
29 BL, Standard, Music, IoEW 391

3 Screamers 120
3 Screamers 120

5 Fiends 275

I'm not happy with my greater daemons.
Great Uncle Ron frustrates me as I can't run him as I want with a 600 point limit and the other choices are just as frustrating. But the thing that really appeals is that for the same points I can get 40 core and another herald.

So I'm looking to choose between 2 different lists and decide on a magic lore for my HoT. I also need to pick who will be my general and BSB.

List 1. Plaguey Perfidity
I'm not sure which the best standard is for the plaguebearers. I'm thinking death for the HoT but I'm not 100% on it.

HoK 140
AoK

HoK 190
AoK, BSB, Standard of Sundering

HoT 165
MoS, SB

HoN 115

30 'letters 378
Standard, Mus

29 'letters 366
Standard, Mus

27 Plague Bearers 367
Standard, Mus, Seeping Decay

10 Horrors 138
Standard, Mus

3 Screamers 120
3 Screamers 120

6 Flesh Hounds 210

1 Fiend 55
1 Fiend 55


List 2. Delicious Daemonettery
I'm thinking of either shadow or beasts for the HoT with this list.

HoK 140
AoK

HoK 190
AoK, BSB, Standard of Sundering

HoT 165
MoS, SB

HoS 115
Siren Song

30 'letters 378
Standard, Mus

29 'letters 366
Standard, Mus

20 Daemonettes 283
Standard, Mus, Banner of Ecstasy

10 Horrors 138
Standard, Mus

3 Screamers 120
3 Screamers 120

5 Flesh Hounds 175
5 Flesh Hounds 175

1 Fiend 55


Suggestions as to which looks better and which lores to go with gratefully recieved.
The other option of course is to bump the horrors up to 30, but it's a lot of points just to get bolt although admittedly a L3 would be nice.