2500 New to Daemons

Hello everyone, i have just started daemons. before daemons i played (and still do) tomb kings. but i liked the look of the daemon army. i wrote this 2500 list and need some feedback

HEROES
HoT - Master of Sorcery(Life), Spell Breaker 165
HoT - Master of Sorcery(Light), Spell Breaker 165
HoK - BSB, AoK, Sundering Standard, Juggernaut 240
CORE
36 Bloodletters - FC, Endless War Icon 487
28 Horrors - FC, Sorcery Standard 381
30 Daemonettes - FC 390
5 Furies 60
5 Furies 60
RARE
6 Flamers 210
6 Flamers 210
1 Fiend 55
1 Fiend 55

TOTAL: 2500

Pretty good list - I'd say - for being your first shot.

The one thing that jumps out at me is that you're over-invested in the Magic Phase. Solution: I'd recomend dropping most of the Horrors, and bunkering your Light-Herald with Spellbreaker in that unit. The other Tzeentch Herald should probably have Wings instead of that second Spellbreaker - but I Disc of Tzeentch will also suffice if you can fit it in your point-allowance (and if you really feel two Dispel Gifts are necessary..) - Two Spellbreakers and the Sundering Standard *hm* are you expecting to face someone who tends to go mad with magic?

Your unit of Daemonettes is really lacking a Herald of Slaanesh (with Siren Song) so that's something I'd put priority to fitting in as well.

The Herald of Khorne on Jugger will not get Look Out Sir when joined to a unit of infantry - so he's a free give-away for any opponant sporting cannons (something to keep in mind perhaps).

Finally, while Light is a good Lore for Daemons I think Life is debatable when put next to Lores like Shadow, Metal, Death..

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

One small change and the list will click.

Very much in-line with DReign's comments, if you simply drop one HoT for a HoS, you turn the daemonettes into a potent unit, and a very powerful tactical tool with Siren Song, while at the same time lessening your overinvestment in magic (with level 2 casters, you're not going to attempt more than 2-3 spells, so you really don't need two loremasters).

I'd recommend going for the lore of beasts, since it's a well-rounded lore that benefits all your units (the other option I like is shadow, since it makes even horrors a deadly threat - I usually advise against shadow due to its high casting costs, but with horrors I find I prefer it to Beasts). I'd avoid Light in your case since Daemonettes don't get much benefit from it, and nor do horrors (it's a brilliant lore for us when going Khorne/Nurgle, not so fantastic with Slaanesh and Tzeentch).

-und_ed

I wouldn't go shadow with a lvl2 wizard though. I'd consider going double beasts.

Even if you don't get something good like curse or whatever, double wyssan's is really quite effective (or can be).

I also usually avoid shadow with a lvl 2, Feez, but it's worth it when fielding horrors imo as it can turn a unit that looks pathetic into a true killer. Wyssan's doesn't do all that much for horrors, although it's excellent on the other 2.

-und_ed

Taking the sundering standard and having a light master is pure insanity as you are hampering your own ability to cast! One or the other....

Leonardas is right.
Everyone [myself included] should who's given any advice in this thread up until this Point should really give ourselves quite the face-palm.

Here is a BatRep I posted on this Board a while ago where I managed to do this exact thing: Taking a HoT with Light in an Army featuring the Sundering Flag. Read and weep if you feel like it.. *haha*

Ok thanks for the feedback guys, i have written a new list, which i will try some time next week.....

HEROES
HoT - Master of Sorcery(Beasts or Metal - Undecided), Spell Breaker 165
HoK - BSB, Obsidian Armour, Sundering Standard 225
HoS - Siren Song, Allure of Slaanesh 140
CORE
39 Bloodletters - FC, Endless War Banner 523
29 Horrors - FC, Sorcery Icon 393
29 Daemonettes - FC 378
5 Furies 60
5 Furies 60
RARE
6 Flamers 210
6 Flamers 210
1 Fiend 55
1 Fiend 55

TOTAL: 2478

I'll give that list 2 thumbs up. Only thing I'd drop personally is Allure of Slaanesh because I don't think it's worth it unless you're stacking some other ld-debuffs along with it.

what should i take instead? level 1 upgrade or another gift?

Frankly, I'd add another Fury to each of those units.

Reasons for having 6 to a unit:
- 6 models get to attack a Warmachine in CC, so having 6 models makes Furies as optimal as they can be in hunting Warmachines.
- 1 more wound of damage-saturation.. Might even survive a turn of instability if things go bad.. Stuff like that.

In my humble opinion Siren Song is pretty much the only Gift worth giving to the Herald of Slaanesh (the Slaanesh Greaters have interesting combos and stuff like Spirit Swallower but for the Herald.. sad fact is we're talking Siren Song and pretty much nothing IMO).

Of course, if you bring the Masqye and the Great Icon of Despair and maybe a few spells to debuff leadership even further then all those ld-check based Gifts of Slaanesh suddenly start looking quite good.

Getting a random Magic Level for that Slaanesh Herald doesn't really have a purpose in your list I'd say.

I will consider that, thankyou for all your help btw!

No worries! Slow night at work anyway. I hope the games goes well!

There is one option for another gift on the slaaneshi herald - daemonic robes.

I've been using this whenever I can spare the points, and it's really worthwhile imo. It won't keep your HoS alive, don't kid yourself, but what it often does do is keep her around one turn longer than without it, which is an extra turn of rerolls with your 'nettes.

-und_ed

Nah Und_ed, i've never found daemonic robes to be worth their points... there is always something better, but that's my experience with them.

The only problem I see with the list is the horde of horrors... I mean, seriously, why would you take a horde of horrors? I assume they are there to bunker your herald of tzeentch as well as provide wizard levels for dispelling, because lets be honest, tzeentch lore sucks, the only 2 good spells in the lore horrors dont get access too.

I would drop the horrors, bunker the HoTz in a flamer unit and spend 400 points on something worth while, hell drop the extra bloodletters and you have enough points for a greater daemon, you could even drop the hotz and take a Lord of Change, but personally i prefer atleast 2 wizards on the table in case one gets blown up.

What I'm saying is, I wouldn't take horrors, if i was to take horrors it would only be the minimum, but as you have flamers, i don't really see the need.

As for lore's, I would say beasts or life, both bloodletters and daemonettes lack toughness, daemonettes lack strength so beasts would be better for them.

Also, you don't have to use the total points limit on gear for your heralds, I would say drop the allure, pick up a torment blade for the HoS, and if you did want to fit a greater daemon in and needed points, drop the Obsidian Armour and take Armour of Khorne for your HoK

That's my 2 cents anyway