Looking for Critiques, 3000pt list for tourny

[Mremetz]

Hey all.
So I'm playing in a tournament with some friends in July, and its all 3000 point lists. I've never played demons at this pt level, and so I don't really have any experience putting together lists of this caliber. That being said, here's what I've put together:

Lord of Change (General) -Master of Sorcery (Shadow? Beasts? Light?)
-Power Vortex

HoK - Armor of Khorne
30x Bloodletters (with the HoK) -Full Command
15x Bloodletters - Full Command

HoS -Siren Song
-Torment Blade
30x Daemonettes (w/ HoS) -Full Command

HoT (BSB)-Spell Breaker
21x Horrors (w/ HoT) -Full Command

3x Flamers
3x Flamers

5x Furies
5x Furies

1x Fiend
1x Fiend

6x Fleshounds

5x Seekers

And that comes out to 2997pts. So what do you guys think? Did I do a good job? Should I [I]scrap[I/] it? (Well, I cant scrap it really, since I'm a bit tight on models ) Please give me any suggestions you got, I'm all ears

[God of war]

Hello there!

I never played daemons at such a high points level either. But I'll try to help nonetheless . Of course keeping in mind that you're tight on models to choose from!

The chicken is not an obvious choice. What level is he? I always include light in my lists. In my 'beliefs' a HoT does the same thing as the LoC for a lot less points. But I'm not going to steer you away from a greater A spell breaker/destroyer is good money value too!

I'd ditch the horror block and up the second bloodletter block to 30-ish, giving you 3 awesome combat blocks.

Second HoT would be great with shadow and in conjunction with the daemonettes.

Take the icon of endless war and siren standard on the letters/daemonettes too. Together 50 pts, and add a lot of tactical toying.

The fury/seeker/hound/fiend MSU idea is a good one. They can each fulfill a specific role and give your opponent headaches

I do find the flamers a tadd small, but perhaps units of 3 are enough in 3K, as everything just gets bigger.

Hope that helps!

Greetz, Bjorn.

[Mremetz]

Hey, thanks for the comment!

First off, the LoC is a lvl 4. My choice of using him as my greater demon, since id like to be using one at 3000, is that I wanted a stronger wizard than just my HoT. At high pt values ill definitley be seeing other level 4's, and for things like dispells (without the scroll ) id like to be at the same level, so they dont get a plus 2 for there level against me every time).

Also, while i respect having two big blocks of b-letters, I dont own 15 more of them, but I also have considerable faith n the horror unit. If I add some more to the unit, it makes a good tarpit, which can set up good multi-charges, but with some magic beefing, it can also be a considerable CC unit as well.

I like the lore of shadow, especially with deamonettes, alot, and light as well, though id probably put the Shadow on my LoC since the ranges of those spells arent great.

[zhambah]

I've just got to ask... is kairos banned?

[Mremetz]

Hes not banned per sei, but special characters are kind of frowned upon in the group i.e. we dont usually use them. Generally, we tend to stick with non-special units and what-not.

[God of war]

Kairos is uber

[zhambah]

^^^ this is the truth

in my opinion if you don't take kairos your most likely going to be out magic'd at 3k LoC is fine... but that's it... hes fine. just another level 4 caster for a hell of a lot more points, alright so hes better in combat than most level 4 casters... but at the end of the day, your casters shouldn't be getting into combat

[Mremetz]

Well, seeing as I cant take kairos, what should i do otherwise for stronger magic? I dont want to just rely on level 2s.

[zhambah]

you can't really... well... theres a few options... but if you can't have kairos, you can't have blue scribes... that only leaves great standard of sundering. which when facing elves, slaan, beastmen, counts... isnt going to do a whole lot

your going to be at a disadvantage in magic, you might as well face that... the problem lies that the way to win through magic is augments and hex's... and even with 45 bloodletters your still going to suffer.

and our two strongest phases are combat and magic, and without magic our combat will go down... sorry i've just realised how negative i'm being.

you could have a level 2 hotz which can support your lord, but have a level 4 GUO or Kipper. they are both far superior in combat, not many people expect a level 4 with a balesword (because its so expensive) or a tool up level 4 Kipper...

I still say take kairo's though

[Mremetz]

I could try a GUO, i think he has more survivability anyway, but the keeper would be better in mobility, so its a tossup. Gotta figure out what ill do for the model, but i have something in mind that could work, with some converting, for the GUO at least. Although either will be more expensive, so ill have to make room. Maybe remove the seeker unit...

[und_ed]

I'm kinda appalled at the lack of respect for the LoC...

I still reckon he's the best value-for-points of all our Greaters. He's an awesome wizard (I'd leave him with Lore of Tzeentch, it's plenty destructive enough and can give you a great phase with Boon and Glean Magic), can get the incredible re-roll from Will, and is a fantastic supporting melee threat with 5 S6 attacks and a solid WS plus thunderstomp, and flaming just for kicks. He's quite a bit better in combat than a GUO with more attacks and a higher WS, something most people forget.

I suppose this goes to Zhambah's comment of "your lvl 4 wizard should not be getting into combat", which I believe is horribly short-sighted. At 600 points for your wizard, I should hope he can do more than toss around a few spells, and the flying chicken can do just that.

So the short answer is this: Definately use the chicken, he's a fantastic option, but I'd try desperately to fit in Tzeentch's Will on him (re-rolling thunderstomp rolls of 1, or ward saves versus canonballs, are things that really can swing a game in your favour).

-und_ed

[God of war]

Und_ed is right in a way. Somtimes thinking outside the box might show some solutions. You can have great fun AND results with the chicken. He'll encounter some threats, but hey: it's war, ain't it

[Mremetz]

Thanks again for the continued advice. So i think i will take the LoC, and lll think about what to change up in order to add will of tzeentch, cuase that is pretty great? I thought the LoC would be okay, but im not too experienced so i got a little thrown off. Thanks anyway for your advice to though zambah, im not counting you out

[God of war]

Tzeentch' will is a good one. If I were to take a LoC I would think about kitting him with: dark magister, MoS and a spell destroyer.

Dark magister lets you play a bit more agressively until you hit that 1st miscast.

[zhambah]

mremetz the best way is to have a few games with each and see what is the best feel for you.

and despite und_ed's criticism, i still say a chicken shouldnt get into combat, yeah he's more versatile than an average wizard, but that's why your paying so much for him. he's still weaker in combat that all the other greater daemons. the only way i would let him get in harms way would be if i was running beasts and i can get some major buff's on him... not taking kadon into account, because that's just a bit broken