6th ed. for daemons, what does it mean for us.

compiled for bell of lost souls

On HullPoints: If a vehicle has 3 hull points it will die after 3 shaken results, but it can still explode after 1 shot as normal.

On Assault: All cc weapons have AP values in 6th similar to what was in the fake 6th ed rule book leak.

Many of the general concepts from magic from Warhammer Fantasy are coming to Warhammer 40,000.
-There will be "lore equivalents"
-Psychic powers will be generated randomly by psykers (like fantasy)
-Entirely new rules for constructing army lists (~Look at Fantasy for hints)
-The FOC may be history

Snap fire - allows a unit to shoot at an attacking unit at bs 1 prior to being assaulted.

Rhino's have 3 hull points, Landraiders and the defiler have 4. Any damage chart result other than wrecked or explodes will take 1 hull point away.

Hq's can challange

Every unit gets a 6+ save vs. all Psychic Powers.
Random Charge Lengths are in
Pre-measuring is in.
Random Battlefield effects are in.
All armies can purchase buildings for placement on the battlefield.
Psychic powers are selected during deployment. (except Grey Knights)
Deployment and Missions types have doubled.

There will be at least 4+ "Disciplines" of Psychic Powers in the game. (WFB has 8 lores)
-Disciplines seem to fall roughly along the lines of the sects described in the novel "A Thousand Sons" as used by the Heresy-Era chapter.
-Each Discipline will have a "Default" power and a set of others that you will roll for each game.
-Number of rolls you get and the the exact details of which powers you end up with are said to be similar to WFB 8th's power selection mechanic.
-Powers have a "Casting Cost" that is different from the mechanic used in WFB 8th.
-Certain 6th Codices will add additional racial specific Disciplines.



Hull points: this would be good for us making it easier to take out tanks.

CC weapons AP: Almost just an upside for us. I am guessing most will not be AP 3 where must of our armor is. less save for them more for us.

percentage based army comp over FoC. Can't say I like this but I could see the reason for it. Id rather they find a way to make troops tempting then just force you to take them.

Psychic powers: It is nice they are giving every one a defense even if it is small. That being said fantasy's magic is a bit to game altering and random for my taste. It would be nice to see a better miscast table though I can count on one hand the number of times a psycher has taken a wound. lore sound cool too.

Random charge length: this goes hand in hand with Pre-measuring. I have to say I think this takes some of the skill out of the game.

Hq challenge: Kinda like this.

Buy builds: Hate this.


What do you guys think ?

I'm not so sure. Usually stuff that comes out of BoLS is pretty accurate so I'm not going to outright call shenanigans. I just think however, that GW has spent a lot of time devising rules for their three main game systems that this seems to be a step away from that. Who knows. Perhaps we are in for a big change of rules, which would be a pity as I think 5th ed could do with some minor tweaks and it would be a pretty solid game.

dp

I've seen a lot of these debated on Warseer. Many people on that forum are sceptical on whether they will happen (particularly the psyker-related stuff) or whether it could work at all. I think it all sounds plausible and could easily be made to work if done properly.

I don't like the buying buildings idea either, and if they do random terrain effects I hope they are a bit more toned down than Warhammer's are.

Hull points makes it sound a bit too easy to take some vehicles out (especially for Necrons), but I'll wait to see how it pans out.

As for the random charges, well if you play with the correct amount of terrain now you'll often find yourself having to roll 2D6 to see whether you can complete a charge or not. Personally I think it works in Warhammer, and instead of taking away the skill it adds a new one - risk management.

Sounds interesting anyway, only 2 months to go now until we know for certain how much of this is true.

Interesting indeed. I'll definitely be interested to see how this pans out, as I've mostly been avoiding 40K in favor of Fantasy. 5th ed isn't terribly kind to the fact that my two armies are 'Nids and Daemons.

This to add ; updating fluff and allies.

JonathanC , I think we are missing something on hull points. My guess is fast moving tanks are going to be harder to hit or you have to do all the hull points in one turn or they get repaired. The latter would make high AV stuff harder to kill while making to so AV 10 could end up with more then a can't shoot after you put a lot of shooting in to it. Could just be an overreaction from 5 ed. too.

I love it. Vehicles were way too powerful on this edition thus I welcome it gladly that they can actually be destroyed easier. This makes the game much more troop oriented, which is great! 25% limit minimum to core would also be good news. Im sick and tired of seeing all those "minimum tough unit that only sits on the objective" stuff. I would definately love the psychic rules if they would be more random. I am really annoyed to the fact that majority of psychic rules are almost automatic successes (only 8-17% of failing) and even if failing effects do hardly nothing. Way too reliable for stuff like lash or any reroll spells. Random charges was awesome thing in warhammer and in my opinion raised skill level much more as now everyone knows the distances and its up to the ability to control risks and odds than knowing excact distances. We have great edition coming up if these rumours will hold =)

I've heard rumors of assaults off deep strike and reactive fire if you assault. So not all rumors are good. I'm worried the vehicle changes will weaken them too much and it'll just lopside the metagame away from vehicles instead of the way it is now. Demons get the shaft against vehicles, but that is cause our codex writer didn't build in any anti-armor capabilities, which is a huge miss once 5th came out and people started stuffing everyone into a transport.

As for the other rules I'm mixed. Random charge distance would be ok, but it depends on how it works. If it's you get 2d6 take the highest charge distance all the time then i'm ok with it as it makes assaults a bit tougher (sucks for us). But if they give assaulting units 2d6" on top of their 6" move and fleet move then I'll be annoyed. It'll be great for heavy melee armies like demons but heavy shooty armies like Tau will be ruined.

Random psychic powers to me sound stupid. Psychic powers are already overpowered in 5th edition, but are nerfed at the same time. Sure you pass them 90% of the time but 50% of those get nullified by a stupid psychic hood on a space marine, or a farseer or nid with shadows makes you fail the test. In the future, not only do you still have all the nerfing rules like shadows of the warp and psychic hoods, but you no longer can plan on a particular power because they are random? That to me makes em effin useless.

I always though random charge distances lowed skill level. You could set everything up perfect, play at tactically perfect game then roll 3's to charge on key assaults when you needed 4's and watch it all wash away.

I'm an avid fantasy player but truly hate what pre-measuring, random charges and no guess ranges have done to the game.

Would hate to see 40k go the way of inserting more randomness when it doesn't really add much tactically to the game, just one more crazy thing to go wrong and blame the dice for... really do we need yet another random element to affect our army?

I had a break between 5th and 8th fantasy so I don't know how it was done in 6th and 7th, but I always thought the guessing ranges was stupid.
It was easy to cheat if you knew what you were doing.
It meant that being able to accurately guess a range was as important as tactical skill.

I like the randomness of the charges, it leads to less "shuffling about" in the middle as you try and get as close as you can so if they move forwards you can get the charge. And I like being able to take the risk of trying to pull off a long charge, or taking advantage of a failed charge.

I haven't played 5th ed 40k in very competitive environments but I understand tactics such as positioning in movement so only 1 model is in combat after assault so you could finish them off in their turn were commonplace in high level play. Random movement and maximising like in fantasy should eliminate those sorts of shenanigans.

Of course speculation before the rules are out is kind of silly anyway, but if there's a stand and shoot option it should eliminate some of the avantage this might give more assault favouring armies.
I very much doubt they are stupid enough to completely unbalance the game in favour of assault armies.

That said I don't like 5th at all so any shake up is good by me.

I would agree that speculation of the rules is not really all that productive right now. People are always posting ideas and other rumors and nothing is set yet. I am a bit afraid that some of the rumors will get release tho (like assault off a deep strike... ugh) but I'm not gonna hold my breath. In a month or so we'll have the new edition and it'll be a whole new game once again and if we are lucky, maybe demons will get a boost in effectiveness.

All of those rumours hint that 40k is going very much on the same direction that fantasy battle took the game and in general that is a good thing even though some players might not like it. 8th edition in warhammer was a great hit and many players returned into the game and new ones started it. Majority who disliked the 8th edition didnt like random charges and powered up magic. So lets talk about random charges a bit here as they might be coming to 40k also.

For an active player it takes half-2 years to learn to measure all distances in their head and after that you pretty much can play really hardcore why newcomers really have trouble with this. It took bit longer for me as I was playing more offensive armies that didnt need to calculate things as much, but back then my opponent who played empire learned it very fast due to using so many cannons and war machines. We both can estimate distances really accurately, even half inches.

So on 7th edition warhammer and still in 40k we both could position our units 12,5" away from the opponent to prevent assaulting for example. I can also estimate deepstrike odds really easily since I have played and estimated distances for like 12+ years in this game already. I do not count it as skill, as it's something everyone learns pretty quickly with the game. It will however raise unneccessary arguements quite often, as my not so experienced players opponents are not as good in there and would start argues that I couldnt know that troops were 12,5" away and how his units should have got on combat and stuff like that.

Random charges and premeasuring remove all this and instead both players then know where he can move the units so they will not be shot/charged and so on. When both players know this, it becomes much more strategic as both players are surely on the same level with measuring things and both are guaranteed to know all variables. Now random charges might sound bad, but in the end they are just skill to control risks. If you try maximum range charges all the time and fail, thats not bad luck thats lack of skill in a very same way as you controlled risks by getting better leadership, rerolls or transport to a unit. Sure it can make annoying things to you sometime, but honestly I have had only one game so far (after what...1-2 years of 8th edition) that random charges really wrecked my game with constant double 1 rolls.

Though, like Marandamir said, nothing is set to stone yet and these are only rumours. We might not get random charges on 40k, but even if we did it really isnt that bad.

Latest 6th ed timeline rumor:

Upcoming release schedule. Looks like a white dwarf 6th ed rules summary this weekend and the full rulebooks on 6/30. Alas, no demon stuff released.

Does it bother anyone else that daemons got left out of psych powers again? I read some other people complaining about eldar not getting this or that and csm not getting x , when they have the 1k sons and I just kept thinking. DAEMONS! you know the things that control the warp for psych powers. It just be nice if tzeench got powers as shooting attacks , you could DS off psychers or we got a good psychic defense , just something in that so we could interact with that aspect of the game. Maybe they were just worried about making the top tier daemons to strong if they gave us that too.