InvisionFree gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
InvisionFree - Free Forum Hosting
Welcome to The Daemonic Legion. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Name:   Password:


 

 Help me choose! 1850p, Troops heavy or heavy shooting!?
Chaos4reaL
Posted: May 6 2012, 09:49 AM


Pleasureseeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 330
Member No.: 2,616
Joined: 30-November 10



Untill yesterday I was sure I was playing my troops heavy list but today Iīm not so sure. Help me choose!

HQ
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110p
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110p
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110p
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110p


Elite
6x Fiends, unholy might 190p
6x Fiends, unholy might 190p
6x Fiends, unholy might 190p


Troops
10x Daemonettes 140p
10x Daemonettes 140p
10x Daemonettes 140p
10x Bloodletters, fury of khorne 170p
10x Bloodletters, fury of khorne 170p
1850p


OR



HQ
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110p
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110p
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110p
Herald of Tzeentch, chariot, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt of Tzeentch 110


Troops
10x Bloodletters
10x Bloodletters
5x Horrors, changling, bolt
5x Horrors, bolt


Fast attack
Blight drones 125p
Blight drones 125p
Blight drones 125p
(For those who donīt know they have phlegm and 2 twin-linked S7 shots)



Heavy support
Soul Grinders, phlegm 160p
Soul Grinders, phlegm 160p


I have 200p to spare, is it for a DP with MoT, bolt, gaze and 2 bletters or 6x Fiends w. might??


I like playing troops and with this list I feel I can get those AV with every unit in C.C or w. my Chariots and takeing them on in C.C is not a problem.
With my shootier list I have 6 bolts, 5 Phlegms and 3x2 S7 twin-linked shoots and 30 warpfire. Unless my dice is seriously out of luck this list will smash all hords and all lists not hideing in transports. And even if they hide in transports this list should be able to handle that. I think both lists are really good but what list and why would you pick?
Top
Marandamir
Posted: May 7 2012, 12:27 PM


Pleasureseeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 346
Member No.: 2,878
Joined: 29-July 11



I personally love soul grinders and the concepts of blight drones, but the melta heavy metagame means the enemy will have targets for their melta guns and those guns will make short work of the drones and grinders if they can get close.

So I'd roll with list 1. Melta guns lose nearly all their usefulness vs foot soldiers. They have to fire against basic infantry and they cannot instant kill anything and demon invuln and cover saves ignore the AP1. The only real weakness is mech armies as you only have 4 bolts and assault is not all that great vs vehicles. Especially vs necrons, which have rear armor 11 on all their skimmers.

Top
Zechs
Posted: May 7 2012, 07:10 PM


Pleasureseeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 308
Member No.: 2,810
Joined: 1-June 11



I'd either go for the first list but replace 2 units of daemonettes with 3 units of 5 horrors with bolts. I've never played with blight drones, but with just 5 vehicles on the table I'm afraid those will be 700 relatively easy points for the enemy anti-tank.


--------------------
Top
Kissing
Posted: May 8 2012, 05:18 AM


Lil' Nurgling


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Member No.: 3,122
Joined: 26-April 12



I know I don't have a lot of games played with daemons but a thing I learnt with both my Tau and Marines is that 4 S8 shot are just enough to do a glance hit on a vehicle (2 if they are not in cover) with armor 12. Since we mostly need the AT shots to glance hits the 'battle tanks' (so they dont shoot at us) the S8 is rather "just just".

I rather believe in CC to deal with tanks as daemons. They certainly got the best anti tank capacities in CC since nearly all units either have a strong Str (Bloodletter S5 in charge) or Perforing (Seekers / Daemonets) plus cheap "monsters" (Naked Princes, Heralds on Chariots).

Then again I'm a rather newbie with daemons and maybe all the daemons I met did misplay their lists but I wasnt really worried by the Tzeentch Lightings in my few Mecha lists (I mostly play Inf Heavy to "counter" the Melta Heavy lists today)
Top
Marandamir
Posted: May 8 2012, 11:57 AM


Pleasureseeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 346
Member No.: 2,878
Joined: 29-July 11



Your observation is correct in that demons have weak ranged anti-tank. There are a couple things to consider with your CC arguement tho:

1) Tanks and gunships are the only things that really need to watch their combat vs crusing speeds. Transports have no issues driving 12" every turn. This means that in CC, the majority of the time you will need 6s to hit on your attacks.

2) Bletters who assault can only penetrate rear armor 10 on a 6 and glance on a 5. Demonettes can penetrate if they roll a 6 AND then a 5+ on the rending roll. Fiends are your best bet at S5-6 if you take might. Even then, they can only penetrate a land raiders AV14 if the one guy with S6 rolls a 6 AND another 5+ on his rend roll.

3) Dreads are walkers and you always hit front armor in CC. Necron skimmers have rear armor 11, not 10. These subtle changes to AV can turn what would be a pen into a glance or even mean you are incapable of hurting the vehicle. Like normal bletters cannot hurt AV 12 walkers and they can only glance necron skimmers.

4) Exploding vehicles will damage your own units and typically land hits against nearly all of the models in the unit. This affects demonettes more than bletters or fiends as they are only t3. It may be nice to claw through a rhino, but having it blow up and kill 2-3 demonettes is a high price to pay. Especially, now that you are likely in the open and any survivors can open fire and assault you.

So there are MANY downsides to relying entirely on CC for anti-armor. In the current metagame, bolt is a good way to help with this problem. You can combine both shooting and CC to deal with enemy vehicles. You will see that shooting may not wreck a vehicle, but it can support your assaults by destroying weapons that would soak up glancing hits in assault, or immobalize the vehicle causing ALL your CC attacks to automatically hit. Stunning tanks is a good thing as well as they will sit idle next turn, ensuring the vehicle is still in assault range and you automatically hit the stationary target in your opponents and your next assault phases.

Just something to think about.
Top
Kissing
Posted: May 9 2012, 06:45 AM


Lil' Nurgling


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Member No.: 3,122
Joined: 26-April 12



if a Transport moves by 12" every turn he isn't a threat in 90% of cases (Blood Angels Razorback being the exception)

S8 Shot wont do damages to a Land Raider either, we only got CM to deal with it, same with Walkers.

I never said the S8 shot was useless, I said we can't field it in enough numbers to make it valuable smile.gif
Top
Marandamir
Posted: May 9 2012, 11:34 AM


Pleasureseeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 346
Member No.: 2,878
Joined: 29-July 11



QUOTE (Kissing @ May 9 2012, 06:45 AM)
if a Transport moves by 12" every turn he isn't a threat in 90% of cases (Blood Angels Razorback being the exception)


Uh, yes they are. Open topped transports can still disembark and assault. Other transports can still disembark and rapid fire into your troops. Even if they opt to stay embarked, they are now positioned to do damage on their next turn, and you now are incapable of hurting the occupants and have low odds of hurting the transport itself. The threat isn't the transport, it's what it is carrying.

QUOTE (Kissing @ May 9 2012, 06:45 AM)

S8 Shot wont do damages to a Land Raider either, we only got CM to deal with it, same with Walkers.


They have a better chance than S5 CC hits smile.gif

QUOTE (Kissing @ May 9 2012, 06:45 AM)

I never said the S8 shot was useless, I said we can't field it in enough numbers to make it valuable smile.gif


Yes, you can. You just need to take small horror units with bolts tacked on. You pay a premium as horrors are pricy. However, they are also decent distant objective holders with a solid anti-infantry shooting attack as well.
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you

Topic Options



Hosted for free by InvisionFree* (Terms of Use: Updated 2/10/2010) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3 Final © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 0.1295 seconds | Archive