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 2K Pavane shooting list
Marandamir
Posted: Apr 19 2012, 01:31 PM


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I had some ideas about a heavy shooting list focused around tzeentch and use of pavane's of slaneesh.

The Masque
Herald of Tzeentch, gaze, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt
Herald of Tzeentch, gaze, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt
Herald of Tzeentch, gaze, master of sorcery, we are legion, bolt
(9) Pink Horrors, bolt, changeling
(10) Pink Horrors, bolt
(10) Pink Horrors, bolt
(5) Pink Horrors, bolt
(3) Flamers of Tzeentch, bolt
(3) Flamers of Tzeentch, bolt
(3) Flamers of Tzeentch, bolt
Slaneesh prince, Iron Hide, Instrument, Aura, Pavane, Breath
Slaneesh prince, Iron Hide, Instrument, Aura, Pavane, Breath
Slaneesh prince, Iron Hide, Instrument, Aura, Pavane, Breath

This list has alot of shooting:
6 Pavane
10 bolts
9 demonic gaze
114 warp fire
12 breath of chaos templates

Idea is to focus on opening transports early on with bolt. Once the enemies are out of the transports you use pavane's to control them. Pulling them out of cover, pushing them back to keep distance, and lining them up for breath of chaos templates. You keep the masque in reserve list to try to avoid her getting shot up before you open up transports.

Initial army would likely be the changeling and smaller horror unit with a joined herald (his legion gift lets him shoot his bolt at a different target if need be), 1 or 2 princes with 1-2 flamer units. Basically get as many bolts on the board as you can to open up transports. Then reserves show up and start dancing the enemy around while you warp fire them to goo.

What do you guys think? I wanted to get 1 unit of plaguebearers for objective holding but opted to stay with the shooting focus.
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LAV-Kitsune-
Posted: Apr 19 2012, 04:32 PM


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It seems like powerful, but I have my doupts on if it can actually shoot enough with only half of the force on the table. I mean, if opponent got like 5-7 rhinos/razorbacks filled with melee models, you would be in for a trouble as there isnt many melee fighters on the list. Actually if the princes go down and opponent reaches melee then its all gone and fast.
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JonathanC
Posted: Apr 19 2012, 04:37 PM


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I ran a 1500pt Mono-Tzeentch army in several games some time ago and it was very hit or miss, basically either winning by lots or losing by lots.

I think your army looks a bit more focussed than mine was (which mas mostly done just to look cool) and the extra 500pts helps so I think it could do quite well. I would like an Icon or two in there though to help the units with Breath arrive just where you want them to.

Anyway, I'd be very interested to hear how you get on with this. smile.gif


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Do you like words and pictures arranged together to tell a story? If so, check out my battle report thread here.
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Marandamir
Posted: Apr 19 2012, 05:34 PM


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Yeah, I REALLY wanted to fit 2 icons in there so each army half would have one. They are great for the flamers and also the princes. The list is weak to assault but the princes can handle themselves, especially if they soften up a target with pavane and breath (hey look, you danced your way into a nice flamer template formation.... how nice of you!). I just wish the pavane kicked off first before the template did smile.gif

Just not sure where to squeeze out another 50 pts. Maybe shrink the horror units a bit, but i'm a bit troop light in my opinion. Maybe drop a flamer unit and free up points for icons and a few more horrors. Flamers usually get one solid shooting phase of breath templates and then get assaulted to death by whatever survives. Maybe 2 units would be enough?
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deviant cadaver
Posted: Apr 19 2012, 11:27 PM


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1 issue is shooting attacks resolve simultaneously. So the prince can't bunch them up then breath them. This is the same reason the Masque is hard to use you have to declare where all 3 shoots are going before you know if they even hit.

The amount of horror shots could really hurt a lot of armies and even a tank now and then.

Let us know how it works out.
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Zechs
Posted: Apr 21 2012, 05:13 PM


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As already said, simultaneous shooting means that breath won't be so useful on the princes. I'd drop the 3 breaths and the instruments (never saw the use of those) and the princes are suddenly much cheaper.

I'd also drop the bolts from the flamers - they cost a lot, and often won't get to be shot more than once - you take them for roasting, and once enemies realize how much they hurt, they'll always be shot down quickly.

With the leftover points I'd upgrade a herald to the Blue Scribes. Since I first tried this guy, he's been permanently fixed to my lists. Extra pavane, extra bolt, plus all other shooting powers AND he will sometimes shoot his power twice.

Then I'd redo the horror units as two big ones with icons, and 4 small ones. Bolts on everyone.

So for 1995:
The Masque - 100
The Blue Scribes - 130
2x Herald of Tzeentch - bolt, we are legion, master of sorcery - 2x 95
10 horrors w changeling, bolt & icon - 210
10 horrors w bolt & icon - 205
4x 5 horrors - 4x 95
3x 3 flamers - 3x 105
3x prince of Slaanesh w aura of acquiescence, pavane of Slaanesh & iron hide - 3x 155

I'd really like to add discs to the heralds so they can jump from one unit to another, and a few extra flamers (I usually use a unit of 5), but the army has nice potential. I'd like to try it myself, but I need to get more daemons... huh.gif


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Chaos4reaL
Posted: Apr 24 2012, 04:22 AM


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It looks like a fun list but not very competitive IMO. Horrors have 4++ shooting and only wound 25% of the time and either their bolt or the warp fire are useless as they seldom have effect shooting at the same target. That puts a lot of presure on your DPs and flamers and having so few units doing so much usually never work, in experience anyway. I would ad some more C.C units like fiends, Seekers, daemonettes and/or Bletters. To free up some slots in elite for fiends I would have 2x4 flamers instead. My 2 cents.
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Marandamir
Posted: Apr 25 2012, 05:42 PM


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I agree that dropping breath is prolly a good idea on the princes. My thought was you could keep the princes in the front line to protect the horrors and when units advanced you flamer them up and assault. I'm pondering tho that just keeping a pavane on them is not really getting the use out of their BS 5. Tossing on daemonic gaze synergizes well with them as they'll be targeting infantry with their pavanes anyway. Why not knock off a few of them while they are dancing into position?

The scribe is a good idea. He is 35 pts more than the heralds, but that is prolly worth it with his compliment of shooting options, and another pavane is nice.

Prolly a good call on dropping the bolts from the flamers. My initial thoughts are that turn 1 you are gonna deep strike em out of flamer range and wanna shoot something, and likely everything is in transports and the bolt is a shot at popping it. Prolly not worth the cost tho.

The topic on the horrors weak shooting brings up some thoughts. Statistically he's right. hit on 4s and wound on 4s means 25% wound chance. Even with 3 shots a horror that means a 5 man unit is only gonna down 1 space marine. A 10 man unit 2-3 marines. It starts to get scary when you take em in 15-20 man teams tho. So is small units really even worth it? I didn't like taking them any less than 10, just cuz 30 shots is enough to chew up a sizable chunk of advancing hormagaunts or widdle down space marines while you tactically retreated. But 5 man units may be better off as objective holders or combined into a single bigger unit. Would it be better to drop a prince all together and get another 10 man unit of horrors? Or fill out units to be 15 in size? I personally like bigger units, but horrors in 20 man teams is crazy expensive tongue.gif

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Zechs
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 03:47 AM


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While I'd normally agree that bigger units of horrors make their warpfire actually kill stuff, you kinda need to spam the bolts first, because unless you open up the transports, there's nothing to shoot warpfire at.

On the other hand, once the transports are open, there's nothing stopping you from combining the fire of two small squads of horrors. Sure, you won't have as many simultaneous wounds to force players to allocate to sergeants/special weapons, but the main infantry killers will still be the flamers and the princes.

Oh and don't forget that a unit of 15 horrors locked in assault is as doomed as a 5 model unit, it'll just last a wee bit longer, depending on how good you are at rolling those 4++ saves.

And yeah, daemonic gaze would be nice on the princes, but where do you get the points for them?


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Marandamir
Posted: May 1 2012, 12:39 PM


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QUOTE (Zechs @ Apr 21 2012, 05:13 PM)
So for 1995:
The Masque - 100
The Blue Scribes - 130
2x Herald of Tzeentch - bolt, we are legion, master of sorcery - 2x 95
10 horrors w changeling, bolt & icon - 210
10 horrors w bolt & icon - 205
4x 5 horrors - 4x 95
3x 3 flamers - 3x 105
3x prince of Slaanesh w aura of acquiescence, pavane of Slaanesh & iron hide - 3x 155

I like this adjustment, but is it light on bolts? I ran the all infantry list that was posted in another thread and only having 2-3 bolts a turn makes it very hard to open transports. As you mentioned, warpfire is pointless vs AV. The list below has only 5 total and that means 2-3 when you split the army. Maybe drop a unit of horrors and bolt out the remaining 3 and put some demonic gazes on the princes?
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Marandamir
Posted: May 1 2012, 12:49 PM


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So basically this list for 2000 pts:

The masque - 100
Blue scribe - 130
2x Herald of Tzeentch - bolt, legion, master of sorc, chariot - 110
3x 3 flamer - 3x 105
9 horrors w changeling, bolt & icon - 210
10 horrors w bolt & icon - 205
3x 5 horrors w bolt - x3 95
2x prince w mark of tzeentch, aura, pavane, gaze, iron hide, instrument - 2x 180
prince w mark of tzeentch, aura, pavane, gaze, iron hide - 175

This ups the bolt count to 8 in total, so likely 4 in your initial half. That gives you a bit more transports punching power. I like the chariots as it boosts the # of wounds on them and separates them out as targets that people now need to shoot at. You can swap em for disks tho if you prefer to keep em with units and jump between them as they are the same cost.
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Zechs
Posted: May 3 2012, 01:59 AM


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Yeah, I forgot to mention the 5 man horror squads also have bolts (their cost is 95 each). That gives that list 9-10 bolts total (depending on the Blue Scribes' roll).

Your last Prince - I assume it's Slaanesh, not Tzeentch? I'd drop the gaze.

Also - what is the point of instruments?


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Marandamir
Posted: May 4 2012, 04:51 PM


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ah, I didn't see your list with bolts on each horror unit. the instrument was just to fill up the last remaining 15 points as there was nothing left point wise that was worth it. If your list has bolts on everything, then that may be a pretty good. tho I'd really like to find points for gaze on each of the princes. Their BS 5 is nice when shooting multiple shots a turn.
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