Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
InvisionFree - Free Forum Hosting
Welcome to The Daemonic Legion. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Name:   Password:


Pages: (2) 1 [2]  ( Go to first unread post )

 Polish Sausage - ETC style team tournament
cerebros
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 07:41 AM


Daemonette
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Member No.: 2,735
Joined: 24-March 11



Round 5 Ė Flame On

This round the advice from my team mates once more was that Daemons was probably my best match, along with Ogres, so when I had to choose I plumped for James Knightís Daemons with the advice of treating the Lord of Change like a dragon ringing in my ears.

Lord of Change (General) (Lore of Light)
- Level 3
- Will of Tzeentch
- Master of sorcery

Herald of Nurgle
Ė Battle Standard Bearer
- Stream of Bile

Herald of Khorne
Ė Firestorm Blade
- Amour of Khorne

Herald of Tzeentch (Lore of Tzeentch)
Ė Spell Breaker
- Winged Horror

27 Bloodletters of Khorne
Ė Full Command
- Icon of Endless War

28 Plague Bearers
Ė Full Command
- Icon of Eternal Virulence

10 Pink Horrors

5 Chaos Furies

5 Chaos Furies

5 Fiends of Slaanesh

1 Fiend of Slaanesh

(Full team lists on The Warhammer Forum)


Magic

High Elves

Arch Mage Ė Lore of Shadow

1. Mystifying Miasma
2. Enfeebling Foe
3. The Withering
4. Pit of Shades
5. Okkamís Mindrazor

Mage Ė Lore of Metal

1. Enchanted Blades
2. Transmutation of Lead


Daemons of Chaos

Lord of Change Ė Lore of Light

Loremaster

Herald of Tzeentch Ė Daemon Lore of Tzeentch

1. Flickering Fire of Tzeenth
2. Glean Magic


--------------------
Looking for a tournament? Check out the Wargame Tournaments Website or follow @WargameWebsite on Twitter
Top
cerebros
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 07:42 AM


Daemonette
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Member No.: 2,735
Joined: 24-March 11



For this game I was back on the ETC table two layout, again down the bottom end of the hall where the SQUIG Hoppers had marked our row ten as our own.

user posted image

From left to right I deployed the White Lions pretty much on the board edge with the smaller unit of Archers plus the Reaver Bow Noble and the Mage to their right, ready to move up to the wall. Just behind them was the first of the Great Eagles. To the right of the first unit of Archers were the Sword Masters and Noble, who I ended up having to deploy eight wide in order to fit them between the first and second Archer units (having deployed the larger unit before the Sword Masters, not thinking at the time that I was going to put the Sword Masters where I did. The Spearmen and Arch Mage deployed partly within the field while the Dragon Princes were between the field and the section of River. Finally the second Great Eagle was behind the river.

Back to the left hand side of the board in Jamesí deployment zone we find the unit of five Fiends up on the deployment line with the Bloodletters in horde to their right, partially within the wood. To their right were the Plaguebearers then a gap of about five or six inches to the Pink Horrors who deployed to the left of the hill with the Tzeentch Herald. One unit of Furies and the Lord of Change dropped down close to the long board edge behind the Bloodletters. The second unit of Furies deployed behind the hill in Jamesí deployment zone while the lone Fiend was all on his, er, lonesome about eight inches to the right of the hill and up to the deployment line.


--------------------
Looking for a tournament? Check out the Wargame Tournaments Website or follow @WargameWebsite on Twitter
Top
cerebros
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 07:44 AM


Daemonette
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Member No.: 2,735
Joined: 24-March 11



James won first turn and the forces of Chaos marched up the board. The Furies on the left hand side fluttered delicately in behind the Fiends who had been outpaced slightly by the Bloodletters. The second unit of Furies popped over the hill, the Horrors trotted towards the building in the centre while the lone Fiend edged nearer to my line. The Lord of Change meanwhile dropped down inside the edge of the woods.

The Daemonís first magic phase of the game was pretty ineffectual with Burning Gaze being dispelled and then Banishment failing to cast at all.

My first turn and there was a little movement with the White Lions moving up as well as the Great Eagles. Magic saw the Arch Mage cast an irresistible Pit of Shades on the Plague Bearers that lead to a total of one dead Daemon, a wound on the Arch Mage and an ended magic phase, squandering my two remaining dice. All my shooting also concentrated on the Plaguebearers, managing to kill four more.

Daemon turn two and the unit of Fiends and Lord of Change charged the White Lions who didnít have any choice but to hold given the charge angles. The Plaguebearers also charged the Great Eagle in front of the Bloodletters while the Furies on the left deposited themselves in front of the Sword Masters. On the right the lone Fiend edged away from the Eagle while the other Furies interposed themselves.

Once more the Daemon magic phase didnít achieve anything with the Lord of Change failing to cast Speed of Light and then Glean Magic from the Tzeentch Herald was easily dispelled. In combat the Great Eagle was easily cut down by the Plaguebearers while the White Lions did five wounds to the Fiends, taking seven back from the Fiends and Lore of Change.

High Elf turn two and the Sword Masters charged the Furies, the Spearmen charged the flank of the Plague Bearers and the remaining Great Eagle charged the Furies near it. Magic was an unsuccessful phase with Enchanted Blades cast at the White Lions failing and then Misama on the Fiends drawing out Jamesí dispel scroll.

In shooting all the bow fire concentrated on one target again, this time the Bloodletters, shooting down 11 of the Daemons. Once more the White Lions took a pasting but again did five wounds to the Fiends. The Sword Masters minced the Furies and overran six inches. The Spearmen, who Iíd been hoping would hold the Plaguebearers in place for a couple of turns until support could arrive, did only three wounds while taking eleven in reply and broker from combat, evading the Plaguebearers by a single inch. Finally, the remaining Eagle did enough combat resolution to the Furies to make the survivors die from instability.

Jamesí turn three and the solo Fiend declared a charge on the Spearmen who had no choice but to flee and went nine inches. It then redirected at the Dragon Princes who held. The Plaguebearers also charged the Dragon Princes who I decided to flee with after seeing what they did to the Spearmen. This turned out to be a mistake as the Fiend rolled like a, er, Daemon, for his charge range and ran them down. Finally, the Bloodletters charged the Sword Masters.

Magic was once more a bust for James as I scrolled Speed of Light cast at the Bloodletters while Bironaís Timewarp cast at the same unit was dispelled. In combat the White Lions inflicted tow more wounds but were finally wiped out. The Sword Masters and Bloodletters did eight wounds apiece but the Sword Masters won by one and another Bloodletter died to instability.

High Elf turn three and the Noble in the Archers charged the remaining Fiend from the unit while both units of Archers wheeled to look at the Lord of Change. Transmutation of Lead on the Bloodletters was dispelled but Enchanted Blades on the Noble went through. Shooting I donít think did anything (at least I didnít write anything down) while the Sword Masters wiped out the Bloodletters and popped the Herald of Khorne. The Noble killed the Fiend and overran out of the Lord of Changeís charge arc.

The fourth Daemon turn saw the Lord of Change hightail it away from the Noble while the Plaguebearers and the remaining Fiend headed towards the right-most of my Archer units. Burning Gaze was cast at the Sword Masters killing four while two Flickering Fires at the same unit were stopped.

Being unable to get out of the way of the Plaguebearers the Archers on the right reformed to get a round of shooting in while those on the left reformed for some pot shots at the Lord of Change. . In the Magic phase the only spell attempted, a Transmutation of Lead on the Plaguebearers was dispelled. The Archers on the left actually managed to put a wound on the Lord of Change while those on the right achieved the less notable achievement of killing a single Plaguebearer.

Turn five and the Plaguebearers charged the Archers while the Lord of Change continued his tactical withdrawal. Burning Gaze and Flickering Fire at the Sword Masters were dispelled but a Banishment was cast and killed three. The Plaguebearers killed the Archers for the loss of just one of their own and overran.

In my turn five the Mage cast Transmutation of Lead at the Plaguebearers which was dispelled while Enchanted Blades on the Archers went off irresistibly, causing the Mage to forget the spell. The Archers and the Noble shot at the sole surviving Fiend and killed it.

Final turn and the Plaguebearers charged and killed the Archers and Mage while Magic did for the remaining Sword Masters and my BSB, leaving me just the one Eagle and Noble at the end of the game.

At the time this got entered in as a 16-4 loss thanks to a 994 points difference in score. However, Iíve just realised writing this that I may have messed up when adding up the points and didnít add in the last Archer unit. I say may because on my army list for game five for some reason Iíve crossed out the circle I put around the points for the second unit of Archers (at tournaments I normally have a list per game and put a circle around each unit that is wiped out) and so havenít counted them. If they should have been counted that would have made it an 18-2. Fortunately that wouldnít have affected the final placings as Flame On would still have been a point behind Team Norn Iron.

As for the rest of the SQUIG Hoppers, Graham took a 15-5 loss against Mike Newmanís Lizardmen, Adam joined club 0-20 with a loss against Michael Walkerís Ogres and Dan proved to be most un-SQUIG like again with an 11-9 win against Hugh Allenís Warriors of Chaos.


--------------------
Looking for a tournament? Check out the Wargame Tournaments Website or follow @WargameWebsite on Twitter
Top
cerebros
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 07:45 AM


Daemonette
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Member No.: 2,735
Joined: 24-March 11



In conclusion

Team Performance

So, when all the dice had finished rolling, the SQUIG Hoppers had come inÖ dead last. By quite a distance, being some 37 points behind the Heroes of Legend in 19th place. Annoyingly, we (well, mainly Graham, Adam and Dan if you total up who scored what victory points) actually scored more victory points than the next five teams above us (as well as the ultimate winners of the event, the Heelan Hammer All Stars).

I think the main cause of our downfall (other than not being the best Warhammer players in the worldÖ) was that we really did just approach the event as a laugh. As I mentioned in the report for the first game, we hadnít really looked at the match-up process before the first game and so we messed up badly there and in the second game.

We also didnít really critique each otherís lists much prior to the event. Other than my suggesting to Dan that as he had five points spare on the list he sent me that he might want to think about taking the Ironcurse Icon on one of his characters, and suggestions to ensure lists were legal, there wasnít a whole lot of planning around the lists. Myself, Adam and Graham were travelling together that weekend and on the way back we discussed how we might have been better approaching our list design each of us taking on a couple of roles with our armies, for example Combat, Anti-Magic etc, and then trying to get match-ups based on our assessment of what role would be the best match for the enemy lists..

On a personal level this was my worst performance since Iíve been going to tournaments (in fact this was exactly the kind of set of results I was fearing when I went to my first tournament). Aside from getting two match-ups I really didnít want in the first two games, my usual playing incompetence and bad dice rolls, it didnít help that I came up against two armies using either a Dragon or Greater Daemon, neither of which Iíve played against before as no-one at the club has been running them since Iíve been going there. Of course, my first game at the club following Polish Sausage was against Daemons running a Lord of ChangeÖ

The other SQUIG team

There were two teams from Leicester SQUIGs at Polish Sausage, the other team, the Mangler SQUIGs consisting of Joel Henry, Paul Thompson, Alan ďNot the legendĒ Thompson and Ben ďPanzerĒ Harris.

Overall they came a quite respectable 6th place and Joel picked up the ďBloodthirsterĒ award for


ETC Comp thoughts

This was also the first event Iíve played in using ETC comp restrictions. As I mentioned at the start of this report, there was a lot of flak going about for previous drafts of the ETC comp and to be honest I donít think the comp for 2012 improves things all that much.

Personally I think thereís far too much tinkering with the main rules, such as in reducing the maximum dice you can use to cast with to five (and from what Iíve read, in Draft 2 of the restrictions youíre restricted to using only four dice with some lores) and reducing the amount of dice you can add through channelling. Trying to keep track of all the items that count as adding power or dispel dice is enough to drive you to distraction.

I just canít imagine what horrors, real or imagined, people in Europe think they are going to come across in games (Iím pretty sure I read a thread where Dan Heelan said just about all the changes have been voted through by the European members of the committee). Really they should just stick to army specific restrictions to limit some of the silliness thatís possible.

The only change the ETC makes that I wholeheartedly agree with is giving half points for units reduced to 25% or less of their starting size.

Overall Iím just glad I donít live in one of the parts of Europe where ETC comp is becoming the norm for tournaments. Frankly that would probably discourage me from going to tournaments. Iíve nothing against the idea of team events as Polish Sausage was a fun event but we could do with a few more on the UK scene, using a more normal comp like the South Coast GT comp, although I note that in revision 2.0 of that comp some ETC type ideas on restricting the number of dice that can be channelled have crept in.

Anyway, for those who are interested, the draft 2 restriction recently came out and can be found here.

Incidentally, having mentioned the Jaded Gamercast right at the start of this report, during the writing of it the hosts of that show released another episode looking at the first draft of the 2012 ETC comp, which you can hear here.


--------------------
Looking for a tournament? Check out the Wargame Tournaments Website or follow @WargameWebsite on Twitter
Top
DaemonReign
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 10:09 AM


The Eternal Bloodletter
*

Group: Heralds
Posts: 3,329
Member No.: 2,658
Joined: 24-January 11



QUOTE (cerebros @ Mar 25 2012, 07:45 AM)

I just canít imagine what horrors, real or imagined, people in Europe think they are going to come across in games (Iím pretty sure I read a thread where Dan Heelan said just about all the changes have been voted through by the European members of the committee). Really they should just stick to army specific restrictions to limit some of the silliness thatís possible.

The only change the ETC makes that I wholeheartedly agree with is giving half points for units reduced to 25% or less of their starting size.

Overall Iím just glad I donít live in one of the parts of Europe where ETC comp is becoming the norm for tournaments. Frankly that would probably discourage me from going to tournaments. Iíve nothing against the idea of team events as Polish Sausage was a fun event but we could do with a few more on the UK scene, using a more normal comp like the South Coast GT comp, although I note that in revision 2.0 of that comp some ETC type ideas on restricting the number of dice that can be channelled have crept in.

Look first of all that was an awesome set of reports. It'll take time to really take it all in and read every detail. Seems like an awesome event all in all. Good-looking tables, good-looking armies. Really all top-notch. If I ever went to a tournament I guess this is what I'd want it to be like.

As for the ETC comp, and the small portion of your writing that I have qouted above, I think it's refreshing to see such sentiments from someone who's just gone through playing a whole tourney under these restrictions.

I live in Europe. Thankfully, though, I belong to a group where we keep to ourselves and basically play without comp. What this has taught me is to laugh hard (mostly to myself) when I see the interwebz going on-and-on about how imbalanced WHFB supposedly is.

Like you, I can agree with awarding percentages of vp's depending on how much of a given unit is left on the table. I don't "miss it" in my own games, but for a Tourney like the one you attended I can see how having to destroy whole units could easily lead to 'boring&defensive' type of play that you wouldn't want to see at a high-paced event like this.

The rest of the ETC comp is more or less bad. And I personally look beyond the 'details' of what they're tinkering with, and just conlcude that the entire premise (the fundamental 'thought' behind it) is flawed and futile in nature. They are grossly exaggerating the 'problem', and then they've gone about dealing with this imaginary problem in way that essentially just means opening a Pandora's Box of endless 'tweaks' and 're-calibrations' (and that appearant 'need' for such tweaks will never end, because no-matter how far you go there'll always be 'imbalances' popping up).

So it's a decease, basically. That's a pretty harsh statement, I know. But there's really no allieviating points about something so flawed being sold as 'holy writ for balance' by supposedly 'the best players' in the hobby. To me it's quite obvious that 'someone' has gotten quite full of themselves, and then (sadly) gotten an entourage of vocal followers that empowers their little crusade.

Uncomped play gets alot of 'flak' from these people. From what I have seen it's just hearsay though. Talking to people who actually attend uncomped games, the story is all together different.

Having spent the last year (or so) plowing down alot of time into making a "new DoC Book" on this Forum, I can certainly understand that "just playing the game" sometimes isn't Enough. Sometimes you want something 'more' out of it. But it should be done with some measure of humility.. with one's feet on the ground, as it were.

So yeah.. I think you're right man. The quality of that Tournament you just attended resided in the armies being painted, the players being good sports, and tables looking good and the locales being excellent. Given such a great premise it matters little if you're playing chess, warhammer, etc, or any other game. It's just aggravating to see people pass off ETC as some sort of religion.


--------------------
Top
LAV-Kitsune-
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 10:38 AM


Lovely Fox Spirit
*

Group: Moderators
Posts: 2,460
Member No.: 2,592
Joined: 1-November 10



Wow man! Thanks for the effort of writing so many battle reports at once, it was really lots of fun to read all that. Only thing that bothered me that I would have wanted to see all of it from daemon players perspective *hehe*.

To my knowledge some of the comps are way they are because they try to force different kinds of lists for players and in the way this already worked. On the event that you were on there was 3 armies with LoC for example where in 2011 ETC main tournament there was only 1 LoC. So people already started experimenting some new and intresting stuff and some of them were really creative, like that seeker unit with 3 heralds on it (I would have LOVED to see that guys reports). Unfortunately draft 2 crushed these creative ideas from daemons aspects and now we are back to boring lists.

Anyhow, its really great thing to see some ETC comped tournaments listed in here too as they are all different kind of game play. You really got some bad luck there if you got last, but I hope you still got good time. If you would go to the same tournament again, what would you change from your list and how did draft 2 affect your lists? What would you think biggest threats to your lists now? You only faced one daemon army and your team faced another. How would you describe them under those comps?
Top
JonathanC
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 12:46 PM


Greater Daemon
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1,244
Member No.: 2,672
Joined: 5-February 11



Thanks for the reports cerebros, very interesting as is your final analysis. smile.gif

I actually went to the same event last year (when it was called Swiss Cheese) and had some reservations about it myself which was partly due to the comp, but largely down to my first and last games being a bit dissapointing. In spite of this I was planning on going again this year with a few of my friends but couldn't due to the weekend of the tourney being the same as the one I was moving house. I would have been on team Innuendo Bingo if I had been there.

I also posted all the Daemon lists from this event already in our ETC discussion thread and the list you played against is probably my favourite of the Daemon lists taken, so I'm not surprised you struggled against it.


--------------------
Come on Tzeentch!

Do you like words and pictures arranged together to tell a story? If so, check out my battle report thread here.
Top
cerebros
Posted: Mar 27 2012, 02:19 PM


Daemonette
*

Group: Members
Posts: 84
Member No.: 2,735
Joined: 24-March 11



QUOTE (LAV-Kitsune-)

To my knowledge some of the comps are way they are because they try to force different kinds of lists for players and in the way this already worked. On the event that you were on there was 3 armies with LoC for example where in 2011 ETC main tournament there was only 1 LoC.


The thing is though, most of the teams attending were there for fun. The one guy I know of there playing Daemons who is actually in the England team (or was last year or something) was runnning twin Tzeentch Heralds

QUOTE (LAV-Kitsune-)

Anyhow, its really great thing to see some ETC comped tournaments listed in here too as they are all different kind of game play. You really got some bad luck there if you got last, but I hope you still got good time. If you would go to the same tournament again, what would you change from your list and how did draft 2 affect your lists? What would you think biggest threats to your lists now? You only faced one daemon army and your team faced another. How would you describe them under those comps?


To be honest my list probably wouldn't change much as at the moment I'm mainly having to write my lists based on what I've got painted to minimum standard. I've not looked into writing a Draft 2 list as I won't be going to any tournaments using it but after a quick look through, if I had to write a list, I'd probably be reconsidering running Shadow on my Arch Mage now they've lowered the number of dice you can use to cast spells from that lore to four, although what I could swap to I'm not sure.

It's a bit hard to give an objective description of the Daemons list as I've only played against Daemons properly once before and at a much lower points level.


--------------------
Looking for a tournament? Check out the Wargame Tournaments Website or follow @WargameWebsite on Twitter
Top
bonesaww666
Posted: Mar 27 2012, 02:23 PM


Plaguerider
*

Group: Members
Posts: 475
Member No.: 2,989
Joined: 15-November 11



The Warmasters challenge is uncomped and the Flawless winner was Bretonnian's! Scored 100 points meaning he tabled everyone, captured every objective and I was happy to see it. Matter of fact a Woodelf player managed to table a Daemon player at the table behind me!(I don't think the Daemon player was inept as he had tables his first 2 opponents...)
That aside, I wish their we're team tournaments around these parts (WMFC has a doubles day and last year my friend and I landed dead last, this year after his forces being tabled in most games by Turn3-4 I had to drag the cart mos of the way), looked like a lot of fun and the reports were amazing! Makes me think I should take more notes... Well better luck next year!


--------------------
Follow The Dread Host of Berelith Fell Hand through the Blood in the Badlands Campaign!
http://z7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/inde...0#entry11881810
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you

Topic OptionsPages: (2) 1 [2] 



Hosted for free by InvisionFree* (Terms of Use: Updated 2/10/2010) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3 Final © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 0.1108 seconds | Archive