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 2.5k MSU army
eastern barbarian
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 08:43 PM


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I am really taken with the whole MSU concept and I have seen it work repeatedly, sO i decided as my next project to do demonic MSU.

thinking along the line of 3x12 bloodletters, 3x12 demonettes, 25 plaguebeaers, 2x3 flamers, 2x1 fiend, 2x1 bloodcrusher and some heralds (nurgle BSB one definitely) and maybe few nurglings just to get scouting as well.

Now- would you guys take two tzeentch heralds with master of sorcery for that setup, different lores? or perhaps you would just concentrate on one?

Any ideas welcome.
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Lord Tremendous
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 10:39 PM


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I cannot imagine MSU working in 8th edition... let alone for DoC. While I have zero advice for your idea (Other than to not do it. lol!) I am very interested to hear about any success or failure you experiance once you implement this idea. Please post battle reports, or at the very least, keep us updated on how your MSU armies fair!

-Tremendous


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bonesaww666
Posted: Mar 12 2012, 07:22 AM


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The Problem for us using MSU is loss of Herald Locus which is where our troops really fancy up, so if your going to try this I would recommend Lore of Light as it will help restore what your essentially giving up. On that note are you taking a Herald of Nurgle? If no I would recommend dropping them in exchange for 'letters.
Are you planning on taking a GD?


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und_ed
Posted: Mar 12 2012, 08:04 AM


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While I don't think traditional MSU will work in 8th, I've toying with a slightly different, related idea lately. Here's a post of mine shamelessly copy-pasted from my local gaming forum, describing it:

So my latest toy's had me thinking about a different list-building style and general strategy.

The premise being that the list is consisting of smaller units than my usual Bodies on the Field approach, typically anywhere between 18 to 30-strong units. This won't allow for many more units, as the extra points will be taken up by high-level wizard(s) and magical support. The basic idea is to have a number of units (minimum three) that are all competent in combat, but go into combat thoroughly buffed up. The lack of any huge units means the army does not have the single target problem, where in one crucial turn the enemy uses a dispel scroll to wreck one crucial turn of magic, and destroys your prize (expensive) unit.

The requirement for this is some way to create a very powerful magic phase, usually through items / abilities / characters that generate extra power dice, and access to multiple dangerous buff spells (I count debuffs as the same thing, since the effect of +1S versus -1T is pretty much the same) so that your opponent cannot just hold all his dispel dice for your only dangerous buff spell. (In some cases this may require taking more than one wizard, or one very expensive wizard). The obvious single-point-of-failure is the death of your wizard, so she needs some protection as well. Net result is a powerful, reliable magic phase.

Thoughts on this? I'm gonna try it out anyway, but it would be nice to get some reflection.

P.S.
The latest toy I referred to is Kairos Fateweaver, pretty much the only way to create a dominant magic phase with daemons imo.

-und_ed
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eastern barbarian
Posted: Mar 12 2012, 09:14 AM


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@Lord Tremendous- MSU does definitely work although it need a lot of skill and practice. I really recommend reports written by SmithF on warhammer.org.uk http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=94537 he mainly plays Empire MSU, but ventures into O&G, WoC etc. with a lot of success.
I definitely think it will be much more rewarding experience trying this tactic rather than pushing massive hordes of bloodletters around the table wink.gif
Of course i will do my best to record my experiences here in order to improve my skill and get a feedback.
@bonesaww666 I am not really planning on taking a GD. Part of MSU strength is that it lacks easily identifiable targets. Also loading 500-600 points into one model won't really allow me to put too many of those small units smile.gif As for nurgle boys- yes, i am taking Nurgle BSB , that will be my more "reliable" block that can take a lot of punishment.
But still- main question is for me- two tzeentch heralds or just one?
I am thinking khorne herald as my general, possibly firestorm blade and armour. But I am also thinking about monster-hunting herald with firestorm blade and possibly on juggernaut. Any feedback is welcome, soon I will try to present first draft of army list with perceived roles for each unit as well.
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eastern barbarian
Posted: Mar 13 2012, 10:19 PM


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hm.. response seems to be overwhelming wink.gif
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brother_maynard
Posted: Mar 13 2012, 10:21 PM


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its hard to offer constructive criticism. you're at that point where none of us have any expertise in the area that you're venturing into. nothing left to do now but try out different things and post battle reports wink.gif


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eastern barbarian
Posted: Mar 13 2012, 10:38 PM


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i suppose so. decided on two tzeentch heralds. toying with an idea of khorne herald on jugger as my general. do you reckon its too risky?
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brother_maynard
Posted: Mar 14 2012, 06:23 AM


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well i think its risky for the herald but not for your army. i have been flirting with an MSU style for several months with my slaanesh/seeker list, and i've realized that having smaller units really spreads the risk around and if you lose your general (unless its a greater) or caster its not that big of a deal. your list has much smaller units than anything i've ever used but i think the principle would remain the same.


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eastern barbarian
Posted: Mar 14 2012, 07:01 AM


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basically i am trying to weight pros vs cons of having herald on jugger (with firestorm blade) vs herald on foot. One on jugger will have better mobility (can always try hunting monsters with him etc.) but at the same time i do think he can be a bullet magnet...

Ok, I guess I just need to playtest every idea i have ha ha smile.gif
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bonesaww666
Posted: Mar 14 2012, 08:20 AM


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Yeah the Herald on Jugger will attract alot of unwanted attention... I see the bonus in mobility but there is a bonus in security... Without something to draw fire away from him I don't know if I would recommend it


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und_ed
Posted: Mar 14 2012, 08:45 AM


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Here's your real problem (in the thread, not the game) - most of the ideas you're asking about we've considered, and decided against. That's not to say they're necessarily unworkable, but really what more are we gonna have to say about them?

Now if you can show us how you're planning to get around our problems with those ideas, then maybe we'll have something to discuss.

-und_ed
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tor
Posted: Mar 14 2012, 11:07 AM


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So any games yet? I donīt like to have my Herald on a Jugger and If you mount him on a Jugger wouldnīt It be even cooler to mount him on a chariot wink.gif
Two heralds Is good but maybe just maybe one of them should have Power vortex?
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eastern barbarian
Posted: Mar 14 2012, 11:29 AM


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i wasn't really aware of those ideas being discussed, being on the forum for not long time. I thought that surely more experienced players would like to discuss possibilities, point certain things out etc. but it seems not to be the case- judging by your post und_ed it seems that instead of asking you for example whether I should have two heralds of tzeentch or one etc. I should come up with solutions myself since apparently you have discussed it before. Hey.. and "maybe" I will even get a response. Amazingly encouraging approach let me say wink.gif

Now, on to my list. If anyone wishes to add some sort of ideas/constructive criticism you are more than welcome


I am making khorne herald my general- give him armour and firestorm blade to deal with regenerating nasties.

2x tzeentch heralds. Both master of sorcery, I am thinking one light to buff my unit and offer some sort of protection vs shooting and other one shadow to debuff enemy's units. Now one is definitely going to have wings (light) whereas I am debating whether give my shadow herald either spell breaker and disc or wings as well and then no spell breaker. Being on a disc obviously means that he is more likely to get shot at and targeted with spells so I am not sure of spell breaker is somehow offsetting it. Definitely in two minds about it.

Nurgle BSB with slime trail and stream of bile. Paired with a light lore and his presence in unit of 24-25 plaguebeaers means that i will have potentially deadly unit and with their regen and t4 they can take fair bit of damage and act as road block.

Core:

12 x bloodletters with musician
12x bloodletters with musician
13x bloodletters with musician and champ (that will be unit with khorne general.. champion to accept challenges if i am dealing with something likely to kill my general quickly)

12x demonettes with musician and banner of ecstasy (again, with banner of ecstasy hopefully it can act as a roadblock for units with less attacks)
12x demonettes with musician
12x demonettes with musician

25x plaguebearers with FC and banner of seeping decay

3x flamers
3x flamers

1 fiend
1 fiend
1bloodcrusher
1 bloodcrusher


Now that leaves me with 74 points. This in setup with disc and spellbreakers. Without a spell breaker I have 99 points. So i have different options here I suppose. If i take disc and spellbreaker then 5 furies and one extra demon of that sort of another. I can also leave spell breaker out, give herald wings instead and dropping one plaguebearer i have 111 points, which can buy me 3 nurglings for scouting and general annoyance. Of course I can also get couple more fiends and have 2 units of 2 or unit of one and unit of three.

Obviously that list will have to be played carefully. Its good sides are no obvious targets for deadly spells, artillery etc. Minus is that I need to be very careful with getting multi charges, as that type of army really relies on them.
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bonesaww666
Posted: Mar 14 2012, 11:37 AM


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Well I don't really know if you need-need a Spell Breaker due to the lack of target priorities but it may be nice to have around to stop an Okkam's or other generally devastating spell...
Not sure, looking forward to your reports man!


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