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 Bloodcrushers, how to fit them in the list
mad lamb
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 09:48 AM


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So I've finaly purchased some plastic crushers. 6 for 55€ is a fair price so I've invested in them. But now I'm struggling to see how to fit them in 2400 pts with GD and flamers? What not to take? What to set up with them? Its 450pts in rare. Not peanuts for 12pts core based army.

I was tourning my lists up and down but can't fit them. If I take letters+HoK and plagues+HoN and GD and furies and flamers there's no place for magic defenders such as horror bunker with HoT.

What's your expirience with Crushers? Are they worth investment? Can they deal with elite units such as WLions, Chaos Knights, black guard, warriors with halberds, black knights with heroes?
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DaemonReign
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 10:50 AM


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They are 'hit or miss' in most people's opinion.
If you 'keep rolling those 6's they can be awesome, but for every game they do great you'll have a game where they just go *poff* without creating much of a dent on the enemy.

Beautifull models though! But on average just not amongst the 'top choices' competatively. Compared to the general awesomeness of Bloodletter Hordes, Flamers, Lords of Change..

Hitting most of the units you mention in the front is usually a bad idea. Depending on how big these enemy units are of course. Bloodcrushers have 2 wounds and not really stellar Saves.. so yeah.. for every time you steamroll over something you'll get steamrolled yourself, basically.

That's my experience anyway.


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eastern barbarian
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 11:22 AM


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they are quite useful as a single units for character assassination or multi-charging things with bigger units to give you that extra combat resolution. But big units will inevitably attract a LOT of flak and subsequently die.
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Aeth
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 11:34 AM


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I always run 1 or 2 of them as single models upgraded to champions. They make for fantastic chaff/extra deployment drops/warmachine hunters etc.


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bonesaww666
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 12:24 PM


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I find them great while running a GD as it seems to force my opponent to split his fire/neglect one combine with the Banner of Endless War for best effect as they require (like all Cav) target selection. Also with the rapid rise of MI I find them amazing at shredding units of these with their High Strength and good AS.


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und_ed
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 04:13 PM


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The maths will tell you in no uncertain terms that they're inferior points-spends compared to bloodletters. Don't despair, though - this doesn't mean they're unplayable, just that you have to think a bit more about why they're in the list.

Your infantry will do most of the heavy lifting, but while they get to the opponent they usually take heavy casualties from ranged attacks, in particular ranged AoE attacks (like stone-throwers, and the many variants thereof), so the purpose of crushers becomes very clear. Their job is to put very early pressure on enemy units, drawing firepower away from your late-game units. They also dish out a ton of damage, and even if they fail to cop a killing blow roll, their high-WS, high-strength attacks are often enough to character-assassinate most BSBs, and almost all wizards.

They're particularly effective in Ld-bombing lists, since all you need to do in those lists is to win combat, and the Ld-bombing does the hard work of cracking the steadfast block for you. They're also golden in armies with Kairos Fateweaver, since spells that you would normally take (Pha's, Bironas...) are especially potent when thrown onto bloodcrushers (Bironas in particular here, since your second rank also gets an extra attack, your steeds are getting a bonus S5 attack as well, and usually you're getting a reroll for the riders, and often a reroll even on the steeds, since Lizards, Dwarfs, Orcs and the undead are all Init 2)

Lastly, just to reiterate what some others have said, always bring a GD with them. Without one they're an obvious shooting target, and nothing benefits from shooting going at them. With a second fast, dangerous unit in play they saturation of targets makes the task that much more manageable.

-und_ed
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JonathanC
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 06:25 PM


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I agree with most of what has been said above about Crushers. Have tried them out a few times recently in units of 5 with standard and musician (which leaves enough points for Flamers in a 2,400pt list) and been fairly impressed, but magic support is something they need to be fully reliable (like many things).

I've been tag-teaming them with a DP, which was OK, but a GD would obviously be a better option.


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mad lamb
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 08:44 AM


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Thanks all for the replyes.

So, I was thinking using them to smash in 2nd turn with Thirster into something. To draw back fire from thirster and letters. Later on letters and plagues com in CC.

But as you all said, pricetag is huge. For 2W and 4+AS 5++ WS wacko.gif

So been thinkig onf unit of 5 with musician+BSB herald but that's like 600 pts if herald has stubborn banner.

I'm trying to fit DoC in 1day singles tournament b wacko.gif t the ETC AC is so crappy for DoC that I'm amazed every time I try to fit in it.

I'll try to give crushers a fair chance, but I'm so skeptic.
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und_ed
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 09:19 AM


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I'd avoid the BSB Herald.

All it takes is one crusher to die, and then he loses his LOS roll, and becomes canonball-bait. Rather stick your herald in his 'letter unit where he's comfortable and surrounded by friends.

-und_ed
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Sherlocko
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 09:28 AM


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QUOTE (und_ed @ Mar 11 2012, 09:19 AM)
I'd avoid the BSB Herald.

All it takes is one crusher to die, and then he loses his LOS roll, and becomes canonball-bait. Rather stick your herald in his 'letter unit where he's comfortable and surrounded by friends.

-und_ed

HeŽd still have a command model in front of him which might stop the cannon. smile.gif At least if you go Full command, which might be a thing to consider in this instance.
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und_ed
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 03:33 PM


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Full command would be even worse.

Firstly, with the champion in the mix he has no LOS whatsoever.
Secondly, being neither MB nor MI, they guys in front don't stop any canonballs at all.

-und_ed
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DaemonReign
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 03:42 PM


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Really? Like Sherlocko I would have thought MC could stop stuff just like MI/MB.. I evidently need to read up on the rules..

All though I must say that even if it does work I wouldn't do it, just for the poor aesthethic of it. It borders too much on ruleslawyering for my taste tbh.


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und_ed
Posted: Mar 12 2012, 05:53 AM


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I'll find the exact reference when I get home, but as I recall they don't stop canonballs. (It's either the low Wound count or the MC designation, but my memory fails me as to which one causes the problem)

-und_ed
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DaemonReign
Posted: Mar 12 2012, 10:17 AM


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I've been thinking all 'Monstrous' things (-Cav, -Beasts, -Infantry, and regular 'Monsters' too of course) all had this in common.



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und_ed
Posted: Mar 12 2012, 01:34 PM


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Good news.

I've checked it up, and it seems I was completely and utterly wrong! yay!

Monstrous Cav can indeed stop a canonball in its tracks, and there's no minimum wound count to do so. Nice be wrong in my favour for a change.

-und_ed
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