New ETC restrictions, Which daemon lists will shine?

Beasts has a reliable signature spell...

Beasts is ok. It got good signature, 2 good character buffs, 1 mass destruction curse and transformation. That leaves only amber spear and flock of doom bit more situational spells.

Metal can also work well. Signature helps big time against some tough monsters out there, blades and transmutation of lead help big time in combat and final transmutation is still one of the best mass destructions out there. This is much more situational lore though.

Light isnt as appealing but still ok. Theres phas protetcion, speed of light and timewarp, so half of the spells are good for most set ups.

Heavens can work with some LD bombing themes since signature gives nice penalty but rest of the lore is pretty gimmicky.

Shadow and death are both ok, but since number of dice is limited to 4 and we can only have that lvl 2 model and cannot even loremaster it, its not worth the trouble.

Draft #3 is out: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=100748

Daemons of Chaos
Max. 30 Models per unit; All daemonic gifts are 0-1. Daemonic Battle Standard can have gifts if his magic banner does not cost over 50pts. Siren song cannot be taken by Herald of Slaanesh. Max 6 flamers in the army. MOS: If taken by herald it gives you 'loremaster: Lore of Tzeentch' or the ability to randomly determine spells(as a normal lvl 2) from any of the 8 rulebook lores.


I'm happy with that, ability to loremaste LoTzeentch on herald really makes it tough choice, whether to take a rulebook lore or tzeentch.. Also ability to take gifts + banner on BSB is nice, though that makes the lore decision even harder since now you could take -2 to cast banner + gifts on HoK or you could take -2 LD and for example lore of light and no gifts..

Draft 3 is a lot better than anything I have seen to date. It's all comparing Pest to Cholera, of course, but it's moved in the right direction.

- Daemonic Gifts being 0-1 is still totally up the walls (!)
- The Special restriction for unit size should still be removed, no reason Daemons shouldn't follow the exact same restrictions as other Armies in this regard (i.e. the general point restriction of ETC).
- Daemonic Battle Standards should be allowed to take Gifts, period. But this new Draft is at least moving half-way in that direction.
- Siren Song banned from HoS. That's fine.
- 6 Flamers per Army is also fine.
- The new way thay have adresssed LoreMaster is quite good too. Good for being ETC, that is.

Well I prefer the uncomped gaming. But Draft 3 certainly looks as though they have come to their senses just a little bit.

Its an improvement, almost makes it look like they are playing Warhammer now.....

Good to see the MoS/LoC issue has been resolved, making LoC's more useful again.

Loremaster Tzeentch is actually pretty intresting, and nothing so sniff about really. Really starting to shape up that.

I am annoyed by this and already posted my rant on the finnish forums. MoS is prime example on how you should NOT comp tournaments. After they started meddling with the rules my list has been forced to change in every draft only because of that. First MoS was banned from herald, then they nerfed it on LoC and next they give it back to LoC but totally change it for heralds. Ridiculous changes like this makes training and building lists quite annoying.

And still the funny thing is that MoS clearly isnt the root of the problems. They even lifted the shadow/death magic restriction from delfs so that delfs can now use mindrazoring witches/shades/anything and all which to be honest is much more common than light lore on daemons for example. Herald is after all a level 2 wizard and casting big spells with him is always risky and he isnt such a huge dispeller either. SO in my opinion much better comp would be something like: one of each Spellbreaker/MoS. Simple and no rulechanges. It doesnt restrict choices that badly but you will have to think between going defensive or offensive.

As for the unit sizes, daemons can now get lists with Greater daemon + 3 hordes of Letters with herald + few derailing furies/fiends. There is little that can stand on its way to be honest since they have done such a wonderful job on nerfing all the warmachines, shooting and magic. I mean Greater daemon handles pretty much all other monsters alone while letters can deal with majority of rank and file troops. Just because I am so annoyed that I consider going to ETC tournament with nobrainer list like that just to protest it. If I rank in top5 with silly list like that, then clearly the comps are worth nothing =P

Wait, I didnīt quite understand that. Are you saying that if you(IE the finnish ETC team?) place 5th or better during the ETC then the comp is wrong?

I was unclear, let me explain it better.

What I meant that I am considering to go to ETC event (not the actual tournament) with list that took around 2 minutes to make. List has pretty much all things that people consider cheesy, so if the comps are trying to tone down and balance everything and I do well with nobrainer list like this, then it only prowes that the comps fail to balance the game. I mean, if one can make unbalanced list in 2 minutes and win, then why have comps at all? If this plain boring list is any good it only prowes that ETC-board is throwing nerfs on totally wrong places and fail to see forest from the trees.

I agree with you LAV, but it's not that they have no idea what to comp I feel as though they just have comped us into a corner... a bland, boring, flavorless corner. This is my biggest problem as it is trying to take something that struggles with internal balance (due to variety) and make it a black and white game.

Really though if you were to go to a tournament and win wouldn't that just make them even more anxious to comp them some more? (weird, I just had the image of that fat sweaty dude from Gamer pop into my head...)

BSB's are allowed to take gifts+icon if their standard doesn't cost MORE than 50pts.

I can see standard of sundering + loremaster tzeentch being quite popular.

That's probably true NICK - and I said before being able to take Icon+Gifts at all is an improvement! - because the Tzeentch Lore really comes 'to life' when you got every Spell in it.

Well basically you get just the basic horror spells + glean magic, as comps make boon of Tzeentch all useless. So with 25pts you only get guaranteed bolt of change and glean magic. I really wouldnt say that its that great.

Wait, what now.. Boon of Tzeentch useless?
Oh right (!) you mean that damn Power Dice generation cap!!
Of course!
Well, I didn't factor that in. And you're right Kitsune, the whole point of having the Full Lore of Tzeentch is having the Full Lore.

Unlike you, I would even concider it a very poor Lore (if you're not Loremaster), even despite the 7th-edish Casting Values.

i think MOS is still garbage on a tzerald, glean and bolt are the really good picks but not good enough to justify 25 pts and giving up wings or the spell breaker. he still has a chance to roll up good spells and can always default to flickering fire, which combined with wings makes him chaff hunter/unit chaser extraordinaire. I am thinking about giving him sundering along with the spell breaker which will kick ass given the casting dice caps both in the pool and per spell. should pair with my level 2 GUO quite nicely i think.