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 What do you guys think of Ogres?
Big AL
Posted: Oct 13 2011, 05:45 PM


Baal, Lord of Destruction
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I have been out of the game for awhile and I don't think I'm going to participate in any more 8th edition tournaments anymore. However, I did dust off my unpainted ogres and bought the $50 army book (WTF happened!?!?!?!?) I built a list I think is pretty balanced and fun to play. I always liked playing my ogres, but they were so underpowered in the 7th edition.
I just want to know how your experiences have been against ogres with DoC. They look like an overall mean army to fight with both speed and power on their side. But the army book has deleted a few things that scared DoC (cheap siege breaker, tenderizer) but added in some cool rules. I really like the gnoblar trappers, I think they add an element to the army that is very very powerful! And the big nasty halves the D6 wounds from the balesword.

Overall I think they did a very good job on the new book. I think every army should have at least one ultimate unit, no more, no less. Ogres just have their new rhinox (mournfang) riders, DoC have their bloodletters!


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~Big AL
Best General '07 Colonial!
1st Place Overall '08 Necronomicon!
1st Place Overall '08 Chicago GT
'08 GT Circuit Champion!!!
PAGE 5!
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JonathanC
Posted: Oct 13 2011, 06:41 PM


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Hmm, well I've only played one game against them so far (and in that game I was using VC's) but my impressions are games against them should be a lot closer from now on, partly for the reasons you listed but mainly because they can throw more numbers down on the table.

I hope they do as good a job with the other new army books as they did with this one and I look forward to taking on the Ogres again. smile.gif


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Come on Tzeentch!

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LAV-Kitsune-
Posted: Oct 14 2011, 01:57 AM


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Our gaming group has one active ogre player and he has been celebrating the newest updates of the book. It really feels like all new army now as it got so much more versatility and tactical buffs. Units he like to use are Scouting and stubborn man eaters, mournfang one of those big monsters with warmachine on top of it, trappers in small units in aura formation so that they will deal good damage against big hordes and work as a speedbump and ofcrouse some bulls. Overall the book got the buff it deserved.
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DaemonReign
Posted: Oct 14 2011, 02:17 AM


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Greets BigAl!

Our group doesn't feature an Ogre-player, so my experience goes no further than reading through the actual book. Oh, and reading threads like this of course.

It seems to me that LAV-Kitsune really hit the nail on the head by saying Ogres got the buff they deserved though. Only thing that worries me is that if DoC gets the 'nerf' certain people think it deserves our next book is gonna be a real slap in the face. wink.gif

Above all, the new models released for Ogres is what made me the most happy. Lots of new stuff, lots of cool new stuff. At first I felt that Mournfang cav had been too discounted - but I suppose they're not any worse really than Bloodletters, DE Crossbows, or other bargain units.

Let me end this post with a question, actually - How come you're giving up on tournies in 8th Ed BigAl?

*Is it because they are still comping Daemons as though we were in 7th Ed? Or something else?

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Oh, and one more thing, we ended up buffing Horrors alot less in that silly DoC-re-write thread that I pulled you into before, don't hesitate to check it out and tell us (me) what you think. All though no I know it wasn't your cup of tea as you said, which is cool of course! smile.gif


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Big AL
Posted: Oct 14 2011, 01:36 PM


Baal, Lord of Destruction
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QUOTE (DaemonReign @ Oct 14 2011, 02:17 AM)
Let me end this post with a question, actually - How come you're giving up on tournies in 8th Ed BigAl?

Because my games in 8th edition have been more frustrating than fun. I really haven't had that much fun playing games of warhammer in 8th edition, it's too random now, and takes a lot of skill out of an already really random game. You roll dice for everything in the shooting, magic, and close combat phases, but in 8th the movement phase has become random too, and I don't like that. Plus I hate the uber kill entire units spells.

7th edition was a fix of 6th edition. And they did an awesome job. Now 8th edition has brought back some of the things that made 6th edition flawed, plus they added some terrible rules. There are some really cool rules in 8th edition, but I miss guessing distances and taunting units to charge that are 1/2" out of charge range and all the tactics that go with it. I also don't like how even if you charge, you swing on initiative.


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~Big AL
Best General '07 Colonial!
1st Place Overall '08 Necronomicon!
1st Place Overall '08 Chicago GT
'08 GT Circuit Champion!!!
PAGE 5!
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gjnoronh
Posted: Oct 15 2011, 06:02 AM


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Al missed you at Crossroads -

Come on down to B-more some time and we'll roll some dice, 8th is more random but I think once you get used to it it's more fun (but I'll need to put some adult beverages in you to get you to really appreciate it.)

I played and lost against an ogre player at Crossroads.
2 big bricks / 3 mourfangs / 4 shooty maneaters / 2 cannons / 3 single hounds / firebelly / level 4 / BSB

My losses to the guy who won the tournament, and the ogre player.

I really liked ogres was really impressed by the balance of threats they brought to the game. Everything was a threat, and could compete against a variety of opposing builds as it was a very flexible list.

I think the army looks like a ton of fun to play, and the toys really painted up very nicely.

Balancing all the expensive goodies is going to be a challenge - I think avoiding the big expensive bits is probably better in some ways then trying to cram them in.



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It's pretty hypocritical to deride GW for valuing their pocketbooks over what's good for the growth of the hobby while you are buying on ebay and playing in your friendly local gaming store.
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Big AL
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 08:03 AM


Baal, Lord of Destruction
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They did a good job balancing this book IMO. There's no army wide hatred or ASF, the whole army is low Ws, and init but still has a decent punch to it.
I love playing pickup games, but I don't think I want to compete in a tournament because this random game has become even more random and I don't think it's a proper game to determine a winner out of 5 games. I don't mean to put down anyone who wins a gt, I just find it difficult to be proud of winning a bunch of games where the little bit of skill that was required to win has been replaced with dice rolling


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~Big AL
Best General '07 Colonial!
1st Place Overall '08 Necronomicon!
1st Place Overall '08 Chicago GT
'08 GT Circuit Champion!!!
PAGE 5!
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DaemonReign
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 08:58 AM


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Well I for one hope that 8th Ed draws you back to the true spirit of Warhammer. The 'Beer and Pretzels' part of it. The way I've always played it myself, and the reason why (of course) 8th Ed is just miles better for me compared to 7th.

I get your reservations about it though. It's not difficult to see that all this added randomness (movement and those whacky über-spells) creates an even less solid footing for letting actual skill determine the winner. I don't mean to bad-mouth Tournament-play but it seems to me that oftentime strict competative players sort of forget that Warhammer has never really been designed for that purpose (8th might be worse than 7th in this regard, but just by degrees.. no?)

So let yourself be freed of win-loss ratios and emerge yourself in the fluff-mayhem, I say. You seem to have made enough of a name for yourself as a Tournament champ anyway! smile.gif


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Big AL
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 09:27 AM


Baal, Lord of Destruction
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Haha "every dog has his day".
I'm not a sore loser, and I'm not a bad sport, but I don't go to a GT to lose. I don't think anyone does, but when I go to a tournament I like to test my skills I've learned, and maybe a new paint job, and socialize. I take everything on an even level with those three. I spend most of me weekend playing games, trying new tactics and new combinations I've learned over hours of playtesting. If I'm losing or not as into the game as I was then I have my pretty models to look at that I spent hours coming up with the color scheme and blending and shading and all that fun stuff. Or I'll talk to my opponent and get to know him better, I will probably see him again in my GT career. So if something is missing, I probably won't go to the GT. If I'm not having fun playing warhammer, I'm not gonna go to a warhammer GT.

And by the way, if I met you or played you in a game before, but I don't remember who you are, do not take it personal, I have a **** memory.


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~Big AL
Best General '07 Colonial!
1st Place Overall '08 Necronomicon!
1st Place Overall '08 Chicago GT
'08 GT Circuit Champion!!!
PAGE 5!
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DaemonReign
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 10:27 AM


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I get what you're saying BigAl. I guess I could say I have the same outlook on the game except I only ever play in a closed group of old friends.

Of course winning is a bit more of a priority if you're actually at a GT. That's only natural. In no way did I mean to imply that you, or any other GT player for that matter, had "winning" as the only point of being there. 8th is even less suitable for competative play compared to 7th, I absolutely think I can see that myself!

All I'm saying is basically that I hope that you find ample enjoyment out of this hobby "outside" of the Tournament-scene. Personally I am nuts about 8th Ed (almost every aspect of it actually - and I didn't complain about 7th either btw), so it's just sad to see other seasoned players being put off by it. smile.gif



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R.J. Dio
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 11:05 AM


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I live in Alaska and don't get a chance to play in tournaments. The 8th ed is a fun edition once you get used to the changes. The magic terrain and near fanatical dedication to playing senarios make the game not as fun as I am a fan of the pitched battle. The loss of guess range is the biggest loss imo. Over all the game is better. The changes to charging are different, but better. It removes the "nudge factor" and inaccurate wheeling that was rampant in my gaming group. Movement is better, shooting and combat are better. Except for a couple of game changing spells, magic is better. Outside the ubercompetitive gaming circuit the game is a great time.
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DaemonReign
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 12:05 PM


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We play pitched battles like 90% of the time. Some of those scenarios favor certain races pretty steeply. For example VC are really hurt bad by Blood and Glory, while DoC and VC are incredibly buffed by the Watchtower-scenario, and then of course gunlines have a field day with Battle for the Pass.

I guess it's because we play alot bigger games usually, but we've seen nothing worth being bothered about concerning those über-spells. So what if you just killed 40 of my guys.. I've got 3-4 more units like that bearing down on you..


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Runidis
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 01:01 PM


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My 3rd army being ogres, i have to say they just feel right now. Not particularly OP or UP, they have some interesting new tricks and a lot more choices, I must say that the thing i don't like about the new book is that Yhetees are still weak, and the loss of scouting gnoblars. Other than that, i have only one thing to say: you think that that kit is used to build stonehorne OR thundertusk? Challenge excepted smile.gif
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mithosiris
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 03:35 PM


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hey big al whats up? What experience did you have with tomb kings? did you test them? I am going to test them soon, and i would like to how did you go with them tongue.gif
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gjnoronh
Posted: Oct 17 2011, 07:32 PM


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Al take a look at the winners of the 8th ed GT's locally.

It's the same guys as usual (with a couple new names, but those guys are consistently finishing at the top)

Example look at battle point finishes here for folks who finished within 10 points of the lead. It's all the standard names - and Jordan Braun wins best general.
http://www.crossroads-gt.com/2011results.html



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It's pretty hypocritical to deride GW for valuing their pocketbooks over what's good for the growth of the hobby while you are buying on ebay and playing in your friendly local gaming store.
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