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Khorne Guide *plese Read*
, khorne tactics
The Blood God
Member No.: 5
Joined: 16-September 04
This is a post that I hope will guide newcomers to the Khorne Daemon Legion to victory through solid army composition and provide a topic of discussion for veteran Khorne players to add input to what has worked for them in battle against all or specific opponents.
One of the most commonly asked question from people who are thinking of starting a new army or who are having trouble winning or having a good time with a specific army is “what should I have in my army”
To address this question I will give a guide to composing a 2000pt Khorne Daemon army that is very affective on the battlefield, is very competitive in tournament environments, is extremely balanced, and is very fun to play with.
I understand that many people don’t have time or are a little inpatient when it comes to reading longer posts so I am going to lay out what I personally field in a 2000pt Khorne Daemon Legion that is indeed all of the things a stated above. I will then go into further detail of why my army is composed this way, and some tactics which go into using such an army.
In a 2000pt army which has given me an amazing amount of victories and won me a recent tournament including the vital category of ‘Army Composition’ was this;
Lord; Exalted Daemon, mark Khorne, spell breaker
Hero; Daemonic Herald; mark Khorne, greater icon, spell breaker
4 Units of 16 Bloodletters, Champions for all, Standards for all, one unit has unholy icon
2 units of 6 Fleshounds
1 Chariot of Khorne
You will notice that I have not chosen a Bloodthirster or Daemon Prince as the armies general.
In all armies Character selection is vital but I believe it is gravely important in a Khorne Daemon Legion. This is because the lords and heroes in a Khorne legion are very expensive and can tie up much of your points. Khorne players have three options at there disposal to choose as their general. The Bloodthirster, the Deamon Prince, and the Exalted Daemon.
Too understand why I have chosen the Exalted Daemon over the other two as general we must address some key points. Firstly we must consider our core troop selection
CORE TROOP SELECTION
Many people see a Daemonic Legion as a small elitist army that can be easily outnumbered.
Though it is true that the Khorne Legion is based upon troops which are ‘elite’ in ability it does not mean that you have to field them as ‘elite’ troops. These ‘elite’ troops are the CORE of our army, and we must make use of them.
The heart of a Khorne Daemon Legion and indeed any well balanced and effective army lies in its core units. Fortunately Khorne Daemons have what I consider one of the best core troops in the game, Bloodletters. These beauties are killer in combat and can take down even the mightiest of foe. I cannot stress the importance of core troop selection. After many hours of play testing and games I came too the conclusion that in a 2000pt game, a Khorne legion is far more effective when it consists of at least 4 units of 16+ bloodletters. I have found that with this many core units your opponent will not so easily outnumber you and also gives those ‘shooty armies’ a harder time in regard to what they should be targeting. With such large units of daemons a herald must be fielded with the unholy icon to support these large units and help them stay around a little longer. With such a large troop of core units the decision of choosing who will be the armies general is vital.
I have seen many Daemon Legion player’s, both veterans and newcomers, field the Daemon Prince as the general and this may be the most debatable part of my army selection.
I chose The Exalted Daemon over a Daemon Prince and I have a few reasons for this.
The primary reason behind my choice is cost and core troop selection.
A Khorne Daemon Prince will usually run around the 350 to 400 point mark and though only 100 odd points more than an exalted daemon is vital to the overall army composition. With 200pts sunk into the Herald and over 1000Pts in core troops a 400pt general was not becoming viable. If I were to choose a Daemon Prince it would leave little or know room for any special or rare troops, and would leave me with a lack of variety and some key units. You also have to realise that an exalted daemon of khorne is the equivalent and better to most other armies LORDS.
I had previously been blinded by the fact that the Exalted was merely a ‘Hero’ and not a lord and so thought ‘I can’t possibly take a Hero as my lord in 2000pts’. When you realise that the ‘lowly’ hero flies, causes terror and is killer in combat you soon could see yourself using this beast as your general.
It is a hard thing to resist fielding the Bloodthirster as he is the biggest, meanest beastie in the game. Although a powerhouse in combat and a fantastic support unit, he is, in my opinion and experience, not a viable general in a 2000pt game. At 600+ points he drains a lot of points that need to be spent on your vital core troops. When taking units I often consider how many points that the unit is capable of consistently destroying or rendering useless for the battle (in a turn based game). In a 2000pt game try as I will I cannot conceive that a Bloodthirster will destroy its complement of points. It is capable given the right situation (endless turns, consistently supporting core troops to defeat tough enemy units ect.) however falls short in regular and tournament games. In combat like many large monsters it will have a difficult time against even regular rank and file troops. It needs the support of core troops which makes it quite an expensive support unit.
He is a good unit for distracting enemy firepower, as any self-respecting general would want to destroy the beast; however it is often too good. He is not invulnerable and can succumb too war machines before you can destroy them and can even succumb to volleys of regular missile weapons.
He does not give you an extra dispel dice and cannot take different gifts, this weakens the effectiveness of the legions magic resistance and gives no variety in choosing gifts that will help the legion as a whole on the battlefront.
SPECIAL OR NON TRUE CORE SELECTION
In this category two options are available, Flesh Hounds and Bloodcrushers. Flesh Hounds are my only selection in this category as I have opted to take a Chariot (from the Rare section) instead of bloodcrushers. I have opted to take the Chariot over them as it is an integral part of my tactics when using this army (see more info in the Tactics Section)
I have chosen 2 units of 6 flesh hounds. Flesh hounds are a vital part of a khorne daemon army and if it weren’t for my convictions of having such a true core based army I would most likely field an extra 10 or 15 odd hounds in 3 groups. It is paramount that a Khorne army have at least 2 units of Flesh Hounds to act as a deterrent for an enemy’s tactic of ‘baiting’ frenzied units. These units in my army are used primarily to prevent this or often to act as ‘bait’. They are also of great use in support of core units and can chase down ‘pesky’ fast moving targets which may cause trouble for the slower core troops.
The only option available to a Khorne Daemon army in the rare category is the Chariot of Khorne. I particularly love this unit as it is very hard hitting and tough.
I have fielded 1 of these chariots but have a variant list where I field two just for fun.
I choose these unit in this list over Bloodcrushers as it is a good unit to have in support with the Bloodletters. When advancing it will lag behind the core units but will be ready to charge pretty much in conjunction with the rest of the army which is a specific tactic I utilise when playing this list.
Following is a brief overview of how to use the units in this list and after that a guide to the tactics used when employing them
Specific Unit Tactics
Exalted Daemon; Be Extreemly Careful with this fellla, although big and nastie he is very suceptable to shooting due to his low wounds and armour. Guard him at all costs by shielding him with Bloodletters and attempting to make use of available cover.
Use this unit to take down enemy generals or powerful wizards and to support current and apparent weak units.
Daemonic Herald; like the Exalted Daemon this fella is a susceptible target, guard this unit like the Exalted Daemon.
The Herald is also probably even more important (than the Exalted) in a core troop heavy army as his icon will prove invaluable. Trust me, lose him and all of a sudden your units will follow him back to his immortal hell.
It is very important to avoid getting this unit into combat with enemy units which have particularly powerful close combat characters that are likely to challenge him.
Bloodletters; These are the core of the Legion. Use them to engage any and all enemy units in close combat. Do this by using some of the deployment and movement methods described below.
With these buggers, don’t be afraid to take on even the mightiest of combat foes. I have an unbeaten track record against Khorne chaos warrior armies and Bloodletters will even stand up to chosen warriors.
Fleshounds; use these fast moving daethounds to kill and deter ‘bait units’ which attempt to lure your frenzied troops into compromising positions. They themselves can also be used as bait units in the same way. Also use them to get rid of units of skirmishers or ambushers which may slow your army advance.
If you don’t need to use them inn this way they are also fantastic support units for your core troops.
Chariot of Khorne; use this unit to protect a suceptable flank of your blodletters.
Also use this units to support your Bloodletters with a unision charge.
The Chariot is also a great for holding up knight units and contercharging enemy chariots.
Though some of these tactics may be specific to this list many are general uses for all Khorne Legion Players.
Deployment is usually paramount in all games and each unit should usually be placed in accordance with specific enemy, however I will run through a brief overview of where your troops should be placed at the beginning of the game. (I will be posting tactics on how to defeat or gain advantage over specific armies in the future)
When deploying units be sure to place all your Bloodletter units down first then the chariot then the Exalted Daemon and Herald.
If your opponent outnumbers you attempt to align your core units up with roughly as many core or hard hitting (foot troops) enemies as possible but deploy towards a battlefield side. (This is often referred to as a refused flank) Deploy your chariot to the exposed side of your Bloodletters (the side not closest to the tables edge).
Deploy your Fleshounds so that they will be in a position to attack skirmishers or fast moving targets, also preferably to the exposed side of the Bloodletters. (Remember it will take many games to get a ‘feel’ for where exactly to deploy your troops, so use this as a guide only)
Positioning your Exalted Daemon and Herald is a tricky affair and must be though about carefully. Be sure to position your Exalted Daemon back from the deployment line edge and behind your Bloodletters. (You don’t want your beastie flying off to a glorious but ultimately futile death in the first turn)
If you field your Herald in a unit of Bloodletters, be sure to remember it has a higher movement and if in charge range of the enemy it won’t hesitate to run out and get killed by himself. If you choose to deploy him on his own deloy him near your Exalted Daemon but close enough to the rest of the army as to benefit from thw 12” range of the Icon.
Using the army
When moving toward your enemy (which is always the main goal) attempt to move your army in such a way that all your units would charge together if in range. This will sometimes mean anticipating enemy movements so your units will be in relative charge range with each other. An exception to this will be your Fleshound which although should stick with your army, should attempt to stay more so in charge range of skirmishers and fast moving enemy.
An example of what I mean would be as follows; 1st turn all bloodletter units march, the Fleshounds and Chariot lag behind, the Herald stays with the Bloodletters and the Exalted does not move. Your 2nd turn; Bloodletters march with Herald behind, Fleshounds anticipate enemy advances, attempt to negate baiting units, Chariot stays lagging beside the Bloodletter units and attempts to anticipate its charge range to meet the Bloodletters charge range if you think they will be in combat next turn. (eg chariot charge range 14” Bloodletters 8” so Chariot should attempt to be around 5” behind the Bloodletters. This also goes for your Exalted Daemon. If you think your Bloodletters will be charging next turn attempt to have your Exalted charge with them (even if this means keeping him way back till the last minute. You should attempt to get your Exalted general into combat with your enemy’s general, specifically if he is a powerful general in combat and is fighting your core troops, or if his magic is causing you a headache. Failing this or alternatively make sure your Exalted Daemon is supporting the unit which you think may have the hardest time.
Although it sounds complex you will learn to advance like this over time, which will give you a great advantage.
If you are able to get your units into combat without too many hiccups (which there will always be, but we learn to deal with them) then you are right where you want to be. From here it gets fun, ride out the glorious storm that is Khorne Daemons in close combat. Never get Disheartened if it looks like the enemy is winning, and don’t forget your terror and fear is a great advantage. It has been on countless occasions when I might get charged by a big unit of knights have my Bloodletters suffer a few casualties, stick around and then win combat and have those pansies auto break and get eaten alive.
Though not a comprehensive guide to The Legion it is a taste what I use and how I utilise a list like this. These are but a mere sample of some of the tactics used and I will be writing more comprehensive guides to the Legion. In the future I will be writing guides on how to go about being competitive against troublesome opponents (using an untailored and general list like this one).
In the mean time feedback on any of this would be great.
If you have any specific questions on army tactics or how I feel about specific army lists or generally anything Khorne related I will only be happy to oblige
Member No.: 4
Joined: 15-September 04
|QUOTE (Drachor @ Sep 22 2004, 05:28 PM)|
| In a 2000pt game try as I will I cannot conceive that a Bloodthirster will destroy its complement of points. It is capable given the right situation (endless turns, consistently supporting core troops to defeat tough enemy units ect.) however falls short in regular and tournament games. In combat like many large monsters it will have a difficult time against even regular rank and file troops. It needs the support of core troops which makes it quite an expensive support unit.|
Hey there, great article. I think I disagree with you on maybe two points. That doesn't mean I'm right, but here are the points and my reasons. First of all, the Bloodthirster can easily destroy anything he touches. He is not meant to be a support unit. He is the Hammer of the Gods! Used correctly, he can dismantle an enemy army nearly single handedly. While Characters like the Exalted and Prince have problems single handedly smashing a fully ranked up unit, the Bloodthirster should have no such issues. The key is Unit Strength. The Prince and Exalted have US of 3 and the Thirster has US of 7. This means that he cancels ranks on his own. Any characters, even the Bloodthirster, are not meant for taking on a fully ranked up unit head on. You begin the combat down by 5 points! You are down 3 for ranks, 1 for a banner, and 1 for Outnumbering. You need to kill 6 guys in a head on charge to win combat (Only killing 5 makes it a tie and the musician on their side gives them the win). Even with the 'Thirsters huge number of attacks my money is against you on killing 6. Now let's take the Bloodthirster and smash him in the side of the same unit that was slapping you down before. Now the enemy no longer gets his ranks and you get a +1 for a flank charge. The enemy has +1 for a banner and +1 for outnumbering. He's only up on you by 1. Smash him in the rear and you begin the combat even Steven. Now my money is on you. Just by hitting the enemy in the side you your chosing, you have tipped the scales in your favor and the Thirster will destroy any unit that he can get a flank or rear charge on (swarms excepted; avoid these like the plauge!).
The hard thing with your Khorne marked general is that he flies and therefore must charge anything within 20". Since your setup is only 24" away, your enemy can bait your general to leave the support of his army as early as the first turn if you don't deploy correctly. Here is how you do it. Becuase your character (Prince, Bloodthirster, Exalted etc.) is on a monster base he does not have a 360 degree field of vision. Just 90 degrees like other monsters. A restriction that is usually a pain, but works to our advantage here. If you want to set your big daemon up near the front lines but don't want to be drawn into an early charge, turn him to the side. He flies and it doesn't matter what direction he was facing when he flies because we don't want to charge at them (not yet!). We want to flank them. Fly off to the side and and up the board and when you land the big boy land him with no enemies in his charge arc (or behind scenery if he has scary guns). Heck, he could be looking back at your own army for all that it matters. You're now approximately 20" forward and out of enemy charge range on a flank (little less than 20" due to the angle if you want to be picky). Next turn we pick up and drop nicely behind his lines. We couldn't charge before becuase we faced away and couldn't see them, but now you do! Now you're behind him and can use his terror to cause problems even before combat begins. With your terror causer behind their lines, they run away from the terror source, and right towards your blocks of infantry!!! Muhahahah!!! Now we play out the above scenario where you put the hurt into his rear. Rinse and repeat. Always repeat. If he turns around, he gives his rear to your advancing army and that chariot or 'Crusher unit can charge 14"
. He's going to take it in the bum one way or another. He's also dead one way or another. Best case scenario = you drop the big beast behind a big unit and he turns it around to face you so he doesn't give the monster his rear. He leaves his other units facing forward to fend off your approaching legion. Excellent! Now your mobile stuff hits the unit that turned around in the rear and becuase you don't have to charge the closest unit, the Thirster hits a unit that didn't turn around (and still has its back to him). Used right, the Thirster can smash any unit and cause unlimited amounts of havoc in the enemy battle plan. What, the enemy wants to sit back, camp, and shoot? Fly your Thirster along the flank (facing away so he doesn't have to charge prematurely) until he is lined up to their flank and sweep the baddies from one flank straight through to the other. These tactics work best on a Bloodthirster because of his Unit Strength, but apply to all Khorne Daemon Generals.
My second point (didn't think I was gonna get there did you?) is that your exalted daemon as he is right now is not going to do enough damage to really make a crushing difference. He really needs Soul Hunger to ensure that his attacks turn into wounds. With 5 attacks, 3 maybe 4 will hit. Out of those, 2 maybe 3 will wound (assuming T4 here and that you're not just beating on skinks), and if the enemy has real armour it could be 2 or less wounds. Might of Khorne and Soul Hunger are almost a must if your Daemon is going to be the Hand to Hand monter he needs to be.
These ravings are just my opinion and I'm glad to see more Khorne discussion and tactics. Keep it comming!
And Trogdor smote the Kerrek and all was laid to Burnination!
If the Gods want a man to live
No one can kill him
If the Gods want a man to die
No one can save him
If I am hunting you
The Gods want you dead
The Blood God
Member No.: 5
Joined: 16-September 04
Though I agree he is a killer beastie, I will still stick to my guns and say (remembering in this instance it is for 2000pt games) he is a support unit. To clarify what I mean by support, I mean he is more effective when used in the way you stated
|Even with the 'Thirsters huge number of attacks my money is against you on killing 6. Now let's take the Bloodthirster and smash him in the side of the same unit that was slapping you down before. Now the enemy no longer gets his ranks and you get a +1 for a flank charge. The enemy has +1 for a banner and +1 for outnumbering.|
In the instance above he is a support unit and to be sure he doesnt get bogged down in masses of troops (which is what happens when you are severly outnumbered due to the fact you have actually taken the 'thirster') I find myself using him in this way. (remembering im talking exclusively of 2000pt games). Will post a 3000pt guide in the future which may just include him
|Becuase your character (Prince, Bloodthirster, Exalted etc.) is on a monster base he does not have a 360 degree field of vision. Just 90 degrees like other monsters. A restriction that is usually a pain, but works to our advantage here. If you want to set your big daemon up near the front lines but don't want to be drawn into an early charge, turn him to the side. He flies and it doesn't matter what direction he was facing when he flies because we don't want to charge at them (not yet!). We want to flank them. Fly off to the side and and up the board and when you land the big boy land him with no enemies in his charge arc (or behind scenery if he has scary guns). Heck, he could be looking back at your own army for all that it matters. You're now approximately 20" forward and out of enemy charge range on a flank (little less than 20" due to the angle if you want to be picky). Next turn we pick up and drop nicely behind his lines. We couldn't charge before becuase we faced away and couldn't see them, but now you do!|
Though im farmiliar with this tactic and have used in the past, to me it just seems.....a little uncharacterful. I know that it really puts it up your oppenent when you do this and allthough fully within the rules it doesnt fit my particular rule set when playing khorne. Athough I usually utalising every tactical advantage when playing a game I will always play the way I think khorne would play. This often means putting myself in compromising positions when with in charge range. Often when playing games especially freindly ones, I will never not move my full march move with my bloodletters as it just feels wrong for flenzied hell beasts too tactically slow themselves down when attempting to reach combat. And I know that if I were to play fully within these perameters my Exalted Daemon woulld indeed fly off in the 1st turn but I compramise a little and attempnt not to use the "im not within your charge arc" tactic to compensate. I always just imagine my exalted standing atop a pile of corpses watching his minions do his bidding until he joins he fray.
This is just me however and if you have no inhibitions about using such a tactic then go for it, as it is a very good one, its just I can rarely bring myself to use it.
|Might of Khorne and Soul Hunger are almost a must if your Daemon is going to be the Hand to Hand monter he needs to be.|
When I feild an Exalted I always take spellbreaker and this is because in my mind it is a must. My goal is to attempt to reduce enemy magic wich may effect my unit strength when we reach combat. So in this regard soul hunger is out for me.
Though the exalted daemon is not quite the combat equivelent of th bloodthirster or Daemon Prince equiped in this way I still find him sufficent enough to do my bidding. Like i said before he is the equivelent to other armies LORDS actually beter in most cases and although he doesn't negate ranks he still provides good support for my troops and is sufficient at taking out pesky characters.
THe point of taking the Exalted is primarally to have enough points for more troops.
With a larger number of troops the need for a super combat beast is lessoned, as those core troops im talking about are in fact very good close combat troops.
My take on it anyway, and this is based on MANY hours of playtesting and games, no to say I am any more experienced, however if you have never feilded this list, I highly recomend you give it a go and see what its like.
Cheers for your feedback
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