GD's (GUO), cannons and the 'bounce'

Hi all.

Played a small anything goes game last night, which was, as usual, full of rules queries. Anyway something came up which I wasn't sure about and as we had stalled so much over the duration of the game I couldn't find anything quickly to answer either way.

Anyway a cannon was shooting at a character just behind the GUO (1 inch). At first they wanted to shot through the GUO (hurting both) but I obviously pointed them to the bit in the rules about large obstacles/monsters etc. Anyway the opposing players then suggested that they place the target marker before the GUO and hope that the bounce distance takes the shot over the GUO's head and onto the character.

The shot never did what they had hoped anyway (just hit the GUO) so there was no furether dispute, but wanted to check what the rules are.

Sorry to be a pain, but if in answering you can quote page and texts of the BRB (if poss) then much appreciated (as unfortunately I cant point them to the internet and even if I could they wouldnt really accept that).

In addition I also think Iplayed the GUO wrong because with Balesword, does he get aut hits on the Stank and then auto wounds with the Balesword, so you don't have to even roll? You just get 4 come through which he has to save on his armour save. Also do you know what the Armour save is? the stank is 1+ so does this mean with the GUO it becomes a 4+ AS and anythign that gets through then does D6 wounds.

Finally just wanted to say what a beast the GUO is. Smashed through the Stank, only took 3 wounds, then turned round and smashed a WOC lord. Obviously with the help of Miasma. That spell is insane.

Oh and another question (sorry!), which we werent sure about is also related to Miasma. If Miasma applys to a model in base contact that has flail (or any other additional attack or strength etc) does it only get 1 attack or does it get the base 1 and an extra 1 for its non profile attack?

I thought everything is defaulted to 1 and that's how we played it (it wouldnt have made much difference in the scheme of things anyway), although wasn't too sure.

I donīt really understand the first question. If the cannon rolls the hit behind the GUO, then the cannonball bounces from there. Or is that the question?

Yes, but Empire just got a new book and I donīt think the STank works the same anymore, but I have not read it yet. Though, remember that GUO strikes with St8 first round of combat thanks to flail, balesword does not negate this.

Miasma change the stat to 1. Flail donīt change anything about number of attacks....?

yes sorry for the first question i think they wanted to hit just after the guo, which does seem correct ( i cant remember how to play cannons)

And sorry got confused does flail increase strenth? And if so does that stay at 1 with miasma

and keep forgeting guo ges flail too

Treat the model as having a 1 for all of the relevant stats and then add equipment and special rules from there

If I'm undrestanding your first question correctly it sounds like that wanted to try and have the cannon ball "Bounce" over the GUO and hit your character that was behind him.

The rules state that when shooting the cannon you designate a straight line from the cannon ball and place a marker where you want to aim for. It is usually smart to aim 6-8 inches from your intended target as the artillery dice adds, on average, 6-8 inches to your marker. The controlling player then rolls the art die and moves his marker, in a straight line from the cannon's faceing, the amount of inches rolled on the art die. (For misfires consult the misfire chart) The place the marker falls is where the cannon ball "hits". The following Art die roll is to determine if the ball bounces further and hits anything else. A Misfire on that roll just shows the ball sunk into the mud and went no further.

A monsterous infantry, or Monster thats not killed by the ball stops it completely. So if your friends were trying to shoot the ball over the head of the GUO and into the character 1 inch behind him it would have been a hard shot but possible. However, if they thought they could bounce the ball over the GUO that was incorrect. Where the ball hits and where it bounces is the line that designates who is hit by the cannon ball. You cant pick and chose what the ball hits duing its bounce.

All of this is pretty clearly explained in the BRB under cannons. There are pics and stuff. Try hitting your friends with the book, osmosis may work... I dont care what science says! lol!

-Tremendous

To perhaps add clarity, A frenzied model with a great weapon under effect of Miasma of Pestilence would have 2 attacks at Strength 3.

Note also that it only effects models in base, so models in the second rank attack at normal Strength, Init..

If a GUO with balesword charges a steam tank it must make 4 saves on a 6 or take 4d6 wounds.. ouch!

Thanks guys. Unfortunately with the array of weird and wonderful Daemon rules we do spend a lot of time questioning my rules, and when you factor in the actual rules (and we're all pretty new in that respect) the game does get held up.

My thinking is that as long as they appreciate we are just trying to get things right, then hopefully things will get easier and quicker and soon we can blitz through games.

I have a tendency to try all the different troops, and have played lots of fluffly lists (with a hard edge somewhere) but recently I've just cracked out the big boys and loving it!

So impressed with the GUO (with Balesword), and that's even with playing the rules incorrectly (no flail or auto wound on tank).

The tanks a regular feature at the moment in games, and as there isn't much else that can take it out, it means either ....the GUO with Balesword or the Bloodthirster with awesome strength (especially as they don't like playing magic either!).

Think I'll try the BT next time to freshen things up.

Hmmm. With the Balesword on your GUO I don't believe you can give yourself the Flail rule (+2 STR in first round of combat) since your actually using the Balesword instead of the Flail.

Not 100% here but I'm pretty sure that you can't mix the balesword and the flail rules. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

-Tremendous

My Bloodthrister can take the Axe of Khorne and the Firestorm blade because they are gifts not actual equipment, so I'm assuming that gifts just upgrades your weapon not replace it.

From the daemon FAQ

So GUO has an impressive BaleFlail

It actually mentions him using the Flail and the Balesword in the FAQ if my memory serves me correctly and he does indeed get the benefit of both.
Edit: Double post...

That is OUTSTANDING NEWS! A STR 8 baleflail... Plus BALEFLAIL is just fun to say!!!

Thanks for clearing that up, gotta go punch some of my friends in the virtual face with my new found "BALEFLAIL!!!"

-Tremendous

Well, throw your GuO breath attack too and you got ultimate killer. He first drops opponents stats to 1 and then wounds on 2+ with his breath weapon. Quite handy ^.^

Just to point out one thing regarding the steam tank, I believe it counts as a chariot now and has a WS of 3, so the GUO now has to roll to hit against it. On the plus side at least its T6 so you don't have to have the Balesword or Awesome Strength to take it out now.