Ereinions Daemonic Legion 2400pts, Getting ready for 1st tourny 2012

Hi Guys,

Very long time lurker but not to much posting!!

I have recently jumped back to my daemons as i have been playing and working on a WOC army for a while now but will not have it finished for my up and coming tournament in april (first of 2012). I play regularly with a group of tournament gamers in the UK, so normally writing lists based on playing tough armies and tournament style opponents.

So this list is looking at what i can do to make a good tough tournament list.

From my previous time playing the daemons i hadnt used a greater daemon and ran the 4 herald list. I did this as i wasnt sure about using a greater daemon (loosing it to cannons etc) and didnt feel i would use them to well to start with. I also liked the idea of running daemons a bit differently as most i know local to me and a decent amount on the tournament scene at the time used greater daemons. I quite often try to be different, good knows why.

BUt for this list, i am not so bother, and want to start trying the best builds and find something that suits me and can be ready to kill all in front of me in 4-5 weeks time :].

So, the list:

Daemonic Legion 2400 pts (2400 pts)

Blood Thirster - 550
Awesome Strength
Immortal Fury

Khorne Herald - 115
Armour of Khorne

Nurgle Herald BSB - 175
Stream of Bile
Slime Trail

Tz Herald - 165
Lvl 2
Master of Sorcery - shadow/light
Spell Breaker


28 Bloodletters - 391
Full Command
Icon of Endless War

27 Plague Bearers - 379
Full Command
Standard of Seeping Decay

5 Furies - 60

5 Furies - 60


5 Fiends - 275

1 Fiend - 55


5 Flamers - 175


So, i have tried really hard to include a bloodcrusher, and even better with a champ upgrade. wanted him for double charging with thirster and things like that.
But deciding what to drop was my problem. 1 unit of furies is possibilty, and maybe a few from the troops, but other than that all the units are just about the right size, cant really go any smaller i dont think!!

I have also considered the GUO, which i would love to be running as he is my favourite and i have an awesome model to use to.
Im concerned that without the speed i might not get the best out of him.

If i was to take him i was thinking Lvl 2, Balesword and noxious vapours.

So thats where i am at. i havnt played this list yet, but hopefully will do next week when i am back from working away. want to get 5 games in minimum before tournament but thats really not enough, so any advice/help here is much appreciated.

Rick

Unless you see double stream tank a lot, swap S10 on the thirster for some armor and maybe killing blow. S10 is expensive and very rarely worth it imo. Otherwise looks very good.

Thanks for replying.

This is something i considered based on chatting to a friend of mine.
I am concerned by just the single steam tanks if i am honest, and if there is an option to charge it with the thirster i would like to as its big points from an empire army and keeps out of harms way whilst in combat. That was one reason, but maybe not enough of one?

Also just thinking all the monters appearing now in armies, sphynx's, Aboms etc, all the toughness 6, the thirster eats them with strength 10 (although overkill), rahter than if only strength 6! Or again, am i maybe looking at this wrong?

The other setups i have considered are:

Blood Thirster - 545
Dark Insanity
Immortal Fury
Armour of Khorne

I have also though about using him as getting a second dispel scroll in as this could be a suprise and very helpful to potentially stop the first 2 decent magic phases if i play it right.

Also, the axe of khorne for killing blow. anyone got much experience with that on the thirster, or is it just a waste?

I think that you have a clear role that you want your Bloodthirster to have and thats important, Is there any restrictions you have to consider when making a list?
If you decide to go for Fat, ugly and cozy then Shadow Is a great lore for the herald Steed of shadows ftw (Just imagine looking up and seeing Papa Nurgle from underneath, flying by. Puke!).

to be honest, if there's only one tank on the table, i prefer to just pester it with chaff. the thing about steam tanks is that if you give it too much thought and attention, you're playing into the empire player's hands. he wants you to sweat and worry and commit vast resources (500+ pts in this case) to his tank. just keep it under control with your chaff and use your thirster to do stuff thats gonna give the empire player nightmares- getting into that bunker that has his level 4 and bsb in it and eating the entire unit by turn 3.

interesting take, but daemon core troops kill all of those things just fine. the thirster needs to be doing one thing in my opinion- using his mobility to focus his immense killing power on the stuff that your opponent does NOT want you to focus it on. this means: hierophant bunker for the TK, seer/BSB bunker for the skaven, etc. thats how your thirster is going to score points, not hunting monsters that we can handle rather easily anyway.

-as a side note: there's no way in hell i'd put an awesome strength thirster anywhere near a hellpit anyway

i like this one because he does a great job of causing mass casualties but you have to be careful where you put him. enemy characters can give him hard time.

its not a bad idea but imo, combat kit is better in the long run. i typically have never found the need for a second scroll, every time i bring it, i end up throwing it at a spell just because i paid the pts for it, never because it was critical.

killing blow with re-rolls and obsidian armor is an awesome character killer, he's a nightmare.

If you're going with that core, I recommend sticking to Light for your Tzee Herald. Shadow is always iffy due to the high casting costs for a level 2, and Light is just fantastic on Nurgle and Khornate troops.

Another option to consider with Papa Nurgle is Lore of Beasts (somehow it always ends up my default lore...) - giving +3 attacks and strength to a GUO is ust unbelievable, and T4 bloodletters are a great buff. T5, S5 plaguebearers are truly monstrous, and will cause untold grief. Lastly, one of my favourite spells is Curse of Anraheir - granted, without Siren Song it's not quite as ruinous, but it's still a great hex that also causes a lot of damage if the enemy chooses to charge, often effectively locking him in place.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more Beasts is just the best default Lore imo. For the early game you have dangerous long-range options through Curse and the amber spear, plus wyssan's for helping infantry survive artillery, and once up close you have Wyssan's, Curse and Savage Beast to drive the game home. It's just so good at all ranges...

-und_ed

Beast Is a great lore! Don´t forget that you have an excuse to buy and paint up a cool monster If you play beastlore
It´s just that Shadow have good hexes and one great buff. Often the withering Is just as good as Occams.
The pit deals with warmachines rather effective and steed of shadows on a greater flying Him to the rear turn one Is just great. Beast Is a cooler lore though imo.

I havnt replied to a few posts, but i do plan to.
Thanks for responses so far.

So, i got a game in last night with the daemons, but used a different list!!

I played against skaven and a mate who plays regularly on the UK tournament scene and is very good with them.

He also knows the daemons well so it was always going to be tough.

The list i used is this:

Daemonic Legion 2400 pts

GUO
Lvl 2
Balesword
Noxious Vapours

Khorne Herald
Armour of Khorne
Firestorm Axe

Nurgle Herald BSB
Stream of Bile
Slime Trail

Tz Herald
Lvl 2
Master of Sorcery - shadow
Spell Breaker


28 Bloodletters
Full Command
Icon of Endless War

26 Plague Bearers
Full Command
Standard of Seeping Decay

5 Furies


5 Fiends

1 Fiend


6 Flamers


I ended up losing the game 14-6, but was happy to bring it back to that to be honest. First 3 turns didn’t go my way and opponent had some extra luck when I wasn’t getting any.
Turn 3 saw me take 6 wounds on the GUO from a S4 warp lightening which was annoying, and also lost the tzeentch herald to a miscast after he took a wound in combat thanks to me stupidly leaving a charge to him and the flamers from 40 slaves!!
That was my main mistake and ultimately lost me my level 2.
This caused me an issue as I was about to steed my GUO!!

I also set up my flamers on a flank looking at the woods for cover with the lvl2 in, and then didn’t realise steed was only 12", so that stop me being aggressive with the GUO early. I am not sure if that is a good idea or not but I felt like that would have helped me more.

I didn’t play aggressive enough and I realised that 2 turns in, as I should have just charged his small rat units and pushed into his face. But by not doing this my bloodletters were half by the time I could have charged. But they did get 13th'd anyway!

The Khorne herald did 3 wounds against the abom which helped as he died then the fiends came in to finish it. The GUO killed the furnace easily after the BSB did the priest in. Plague bearers did very well against the furnace and 32 monks. I wasn’t sure how that was going to go, but if I had known what I found out before I would have pushed earlier.

I still feel like I want another small unit, and feel maybe one or two upgrades on the heralds could be changed.

What do people think of the list?
Also, what’s people’s opinion on using the GUO set up like this, have no experience but fell like I could play a few games and feel I won’t get the full use of him.

That's the GUO build that I run when I take the big guy.

I don't think your magic lore setup suits him though. GUO tends to die when pinned down in combat by normal rank and file. Beasts or even life magic would be better than shadow when using him IMO.

5 fiends works with shadow though but would also work with beasts or life. I think I would lose a fiend and take Banner of the Sundering if you have enough hero pts left. Bringing a level 4 caster down to level 2 is great and protection vs light magic is a great headache for an opponent.

Its all dependant on play style.

I dont play my GUO with the balesword persoanlly. I go with lvl2, Trappings, Mucus, and Noxious.

The idea is that he always gets Miasma of pest. (Which is a game changer in CC) and whatever his other spell is is just icing. Also, he's a T6 monster with a 4+ AS and a 4+ regen which makes any chance of wounding him slim with normal R&F but if my opponent is able to get a wound thru in CC the model and everyone in Base with him is going to pay for it. (Especially if their T is lowered to 1 with miasma.)

I also find that having a AS and regen helps him negate MUCH of the shooting attacks that are sent his way and I usually field my HoTz with Lore of Life magic so that I can heal any wounds my GUO aquires during his sprint across the table.

Maybe that will help but honestly, like you've already stated, it sounds like your opponent got into your head before you began placing models. Not that it doesn't happen to all of us but next time remember;

YOU'RE A F'IN DEMON DAMNIT! YOU CHARGE FORWARD AND MAKE YOUR OPPONENT SUFFER FOR DARING TO CHALLENGE YOUR AWESOME!!!

THE DARK GODS WILL IT!!!

Hope this helps for your next game.

-Tremendous

A small up-date.

I played my first tournament with the Daemons in April, the South Coast GT, and had an awesome weekend.

I managed to come 40th out of 160, so was very pleased.

The list played very well, much as I wanted it to and I was pleased with how I played it.
The more safe inclusions of the GUO and the Nurgle block helped me a lot.

I played Empire, Vampires, Lizards, Vampires, WOC and Vampires.

All the vamps lists were different, getting to see quite a lot of the new book.

I got a big loss game one to an experienced player and had some bad luck loosing GUO turn 2!! was tough after that but now I am pleased to take the loss game one, as before I have won big and been pushed into the top tables where I do not have enough experience yet.

I drew game 2, couldn’t kill the massive 18 knight bus and characters, and annoyingly last turn couldn’t stop them charging, so the loss of the Nurgle block brought it back to a draw.

Game 3 massive win. Steed of shadows the GUO turn 1 straight in front of slaan. This caused my opponent to run everything away from the GUO and towards my army . Plan worked.

Game 4 was a close game with a lot of small tight things happening.
We both picked up a lot of the smaller points but I couldn’t get as much as him and went down 12-8. Pleased with the points from this though as had horrendous dice all game, even my opponent felt sorry for me.

Game 5 was a 20-0 win to me. 2 x 40 marauders, block of warriors and 2 hellcannons. Plus disc hero and lvl4/lvl2, made this army slow. Again steed of shadows in turn 2 caused my opponent to **** himself . Right behind his lines to go for the cannons, which I got and he turned the warrior bunker round with the lord etc. in, killed the lot!!
I play WOC as my main army so I did feel confident in this from the start, and my opponent had never played against the GUO before.

Game 5 was a close affair again. lots of movement, blocking etc. 2 x 6 vergheists and 2 x 6 crypt horrors plus skeleton bunker for 2 lvl4's. Lots of chaff and a ghoul block. This all moved up together and magic targeting me and buffing himself as he moved.
Got the GUO stuck with some poor movement with my units, so didn’t get to fight until rounds 5 and 6. Got a win 12-8 but with the GUO in earlier I think I could have got bigger.

All in all very happy, and loved the daemons and the list.

Playing some more with it over the next few months now, and starting tonight with a game vs Skaven. 2500 points so plan to add 100 points.

Considering extra fury unit, extra single fiends or maybe crusher/crusher champ.

Any opinions?

Also, the skaven list is bell plus 35 storm vermin, 3 x 40 slaves, 3 x mini rat units. Abom, doomwheel, lightening cannon and catapult. Plus the usual warlocks and 2 x 10 gutter runners.

Any advice or things to watch out for as not played skaven yet with this list at all?
What are my ways of dealing with/killing the bell and unit?
Is the GUO any good at fighting it?

Just walk something solid into the stormvermin and ring the bell yourself. It's really not particularly good, just a great model that rat players can't help fielding (it also means the grey seer on top of it is begging to be shot / magicked / hacked apart).

Be careful of the doomwheel, it's one of the very few things in the game that with a lucky roll can end up one-shotting your GUO (it rolls an artillery dice for S, and then fires three lightning bolts at that S at the nearest unit (friend or foe), auto-hitting, with each wound multiplying into D6 wounds)

Gutter runners are usually a nuisance for greaters, but with 10 wounds you're not too concerned.

He'll try to bog you down with stubborn Ld 10 slaves and just shoot into combat - if possible try to steed your GUO behind his lines, it will wreck his entire game-plan. Otherwise send in smaller fast units to tie up the slaves, keeping his juicy centre vulnerable.

-und_ed