Torment blade question

Perhaps you're right..... I don't (haven't tried) use the +1 Attack - but it's clear that many people 'THINK' it should be useable like that -by the wording of the item. I can't believe that this hasn't been answered in a FAQ by now - whether GW's official ones, or a Direwolf version ?

In the Swedish FAQ it grants +1 attack. I don't get why though, if people think daemons are overpowered why give them +1A för 5 points?

@Fulgrim's chosen from the direwolf FAQ (it's PINNED in the rules section folks. . . )

Again see the other thread for a nice review of the arguments.

RAW - is fairly clear on how this works

RAI (rules as intended) IMO is pretty clear GW meant to do something different with with these two gifts - if not have them count as hand weapons (with the special rule 'hand weapon' specifically listed) then what?

Rules as previously established - pretty clear again from dark elf beastmasters, black orcs, shaggoths, bone giants etc.

Rules as what should this cost - that's the crux of peoples discussion- but Gyges makes some excellent points on an additional hand weapon decisions for other character models.

I'd just like to point out that this is exactly the case in at least the lizardmen book. A scar-vet can take +1 A for 4 points (hand weapon) or +2A for 50 pts (scimitar). I'm pretty sure I've seen +2A for 50 pts in at least one other book as well.

Granted this means that the Ld test ability is only valued at 1 pt which is of course a bit too low. But still, the fact that only the two weapons say hand weapon where other things that are similarly 'weapon-like' do not implies to me that they are meant to have that one attack. Chances are the 5 pts is supposed to be 15 or something.

Bear in mind also that those +2 attacks are available regardless, while if the Herald has a mount of any sort the +1A from the Torment Blade is lost.

Good point. Also, as people have pointed out - when the Keeper of Secrets takes the Torment Blade for that 7th attack, he loses an entire "Gift Slot" because of the way they are point-costed....a 5-point gift ends up taking the "space" in his total Allottment of a 25-pt gift..meaning you are giving up some potentially "better" Gift when you opt for it in your Keeper's set-up.

I am sorry, but I don't see how you can assume the Torment Blade give you a +1 attack. It doesn't say so in the description at all. Or is this just a case of people looking for loop-holes in the rules???

Well, the idea is that the Herald has a hand weapon and the Torment Blade is a hand weapon as well. The idea is that he then has two hand weapons so qualifies for the "Fighting with two hand weapons" rule.

There is some precedent for this sort of thing. DE Beastmasters have a hand weapon and a "Beastmaster scourge" which is a hand weapon, and the DE FAQ concludes that counts for +1A. The same thing happens with Pistols (which count as hand weapons).

Another thing moving people in that direction is that the gift says "Hand Weapon" while other gifts don't and one wonders why (compare to Axe of Khorne for instance).

It's a little arcane and it seems like a huge boost for 5pts, both of which make people think it isn't intended to work that way. Personally I feel like the RAW answer for +1A is a bit stronger. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Ce la vie.

Well-stated. You laid out the basic argument for the +1, as well as supporting cases of the same thing in other recent Army Books (precedent). I hope GW will answer this conclusively in the next Daemon FAQ update they do. Gjnoronh * and his Direwolf FAQ Council buddies have apparently put together another batch of questions from the last year or so of playing Daemons (submitted by gamers around the world, as well as the Council Members themselves), and should end up sending the list to GW.

GW tends to respect Direwolf, and even credits/thanks them for some of the questions in their Official FAQ's of late. So it's quite likely/hopeful - that GW will end up answering many of the things we've hashed about for a long while on these forums (and others) regarding Daemons - like Torment Blade // Staff of Change +1 Attack /// Noxious Vapors (just for Gyges - joking ! ) /// Why Tzeentch's Firestorm sucks so badly......oh...wait....not that one. Sorry. Got lost in my thoughts for a moment.



It might be a few months, but hopefully we'll get some solid clarifications on some of the more vaguely defined issues/questions people have had.

This is not in the next round of questions for the GW team -sorry. As we know the direwolf FAQ has addressed it already. GW's design team doubles as their FAQ team so they have a limited ability to review old questions in detail

@Deadeye read the other thread this one is linked to

So is it pretty much settled then - at major tourney's - Ard' Boyz - Grand Tournaments - since that Direwolf FAQ answer on Torment Blade, that it DOES in fact give the +1 Attack, as R-A-W always suggested ?

Many IndyGT's in the US in particular use direwolf as their FAQ.

The GW GT's typically only use the GW official FAQ. IF you had to get a judge ruling on the spot you might not get the same answre from three different judges at the same event.

I think again there is no question by RAW/RAI