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 2k mono Khorne - advice and tips welcome!
Specialpatrol
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 10:37 AM


Lil' Nurgling


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Member No.: 3,063
Joined: 21-February 12



Hey guys.

Oldtime WFB player here - but rather new at Daemons (I'm a mostly a sucker for the fluffy sleeves and impressive codpeices of the Empire).

Nevertheless, I've decided to give my mostly unassembled daemons their first field trip and have chosen - maybe a bit unwisely - to go for a mono Khorne army. I therefore thought I'd better turn to you for some advice.

My army list so far looks something like this:

Characters:
Bloodthirster (General) - 490 pts
- Armor of Khorne
- Immortal Fury

Skulltaker - 150 pts

Herald - 215 pts
- BSB
- Armor of Khorne
- Great Icon of Despair


Core:
34 x Bloodletters - 463 pts
- Full command
- Icon of Endless War

15 x Bloodletters - 186 pts
- Musician

6 x Chaos Furies - 72 pts


Special:
6 x Flesh Hounds - 210 pts


Rare:
3 x Bloodcrushers - 220 pts
- Musician


Total: 2006 pts
(List has been edited according to some of the feedback given below)

Okay, a few remarks from me, before I let you rip my list apart...

I know it's probably a bit silly to bring a Bloodthirster to the table in a 2k army - but I''ve had the wanker collecting dust in a box for more than ten years now (think I might have used him once or twice back in the day, when I played whatever edition of Chaos that was around at that time), so screw it, I wanna use him for this bloody mess! (plus he does bring Ld 9 and 18" presence).

Furthermore, I plan to toss my BSB and Skulltaker into the same unit (the smaller one, bringing it up to a total of 24) and leave the other unit as a backup.

Setup-wise, I'm thinking the two units of Letters in the center, flanked by Juggers and Hounds on each side, with the Thirster in the backline. Basic stuff. Tactics are also pretty simple - full speed ahead!

Other than that, my concerns are mostly centered on army composition:
- Should I drop my Juggers down to 3 and maybe use the points to beef them up with a champ instead, and the Bloodthirster with Immortal fury (cc reroll)?
- Should I cut costs and keep the Juggers barebones, with only a musician (for Fast Reform)?
- Should I split the Juggers? (i.e. into a unit of 3 and a unit of 1).
- Should I find the points for 5-6 Furies?
- Should I chuck Skulltaker on a jugger and toss him in with rest of those riders? (my personal fear is he will be too exposed like this).
- Should I get another Herald? And if so, at the expense of what?
- Should I go for one big Horde-style unit of Letters - or keep them as they are? (currently I'm thinking 2 units, 6 wide, 3 deep).
- etc etc

The army is for a little local tournament with a few friends, where I know for a fact that I will be facing Dark Elves, Dwarfs and Ogres - and even though it will mostly be centered around drinking a few beers and having a laugh, I still wanna beat the crap out of them! (if I can, ofc).

So... comments, advice and/or tips - bring 'em on!
Rock_emoticon.gif

This post has been edited by Specialpatrol on Feb 22 2012, 09:22 AM
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Specialpatrol
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 11:37 AM


Lil' Nurgling


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Joined: 21-February 12



Hmm... it has come to my attention that identical Icons no longer can be taken in multiples, hence banning 2 of my 3 Icons of Endless War... is this correct?

If so, that at least would free up points for Immortal Fury on the Thirster and maybe make room for a few more Letters (beefing my units to a total 25, including chars).

Or is the Skull Totem worth taking?
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DaemonReign
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 11:55 AM


The Eternal Bloodletter
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That's correct about the Icons. Or at least that's the general consensus on them. The Errata/FAQ where this 0-1 restriction is derived isn't exactly crystal clear, but it is rather implicit!

Your Thirster cannot cost more than 500pts in this game. You should drop Firestorm Blade and get Immortal Fury instead. Armour of Khorne/Immortal Fury is the combo you want.

I would make ONE big unit of Bloodletters. 35+ models in that unit. Then I would have a smaller "support" unit for Core on the side. This would also free you from the concideration of having to get an extra HoK.

FleshHounds and Furies should be fielded in units of 6, at least. Their minimum size (5) is suboptimal.

Sticking Skulltaker on Jugger is a pretty good idea actually as it will be a little easier to get him where you need him to go that way. If worried about LookOutSir just make sure the Jugger-unit is big enough.


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Specialpatrol
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 12:18 PM


Lil' Nurgling


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Member No.: 3,063
Joined: 21-February 12



Sound advice - thanks!

And dang, completely forgot the max 25% Lord thing (using Armybuilder on the laptop with a max on 2500 pts to juggle this list around, so no warnings popped up - and why do head math, when you have a machine to do it for you!).

The basic reason I'd like either Axe of Khorne or Firestorm Blade is for ripping that regenerating mofo of a Hydra apart (that I'm almost certain that the DE dude is gonna bring). I really loathe that OP beast... but maybe I shouldn't be too concerned about it?

If I'm going for a big unit of Letters and a smaller one, as you suggest, would you leave the smaller one barebones, except maybe a musician? (i.e. no banner or champ).

If I run Skulltaker on a jugger, I need 5 rank-and-file juggers (!) to get the full benefit of the 'Look out, sir' rule, right? I doubt I'll have the points for that.

I could of course park him and his jugger inside the big unit of Letters and let him charge out, when needed...

And about Furies - do I need them? Or do I leave the war machine hunting to the Hounds?
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bonesaww666
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 12:30 PM


Plaguerider
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Get rid of Skulltaker he has no locus effect and is to slow to pick his combats proper and against heroes people will just challenge him out with a champ... Your points would be better spent elsewhere.

Honestly I see nothing wrong with taking a BT at 2000, unlike a unit of letters he flies and will never lose his combat prowess. Crushers are a good unit to use to protect your BT as well.

Make the unit 3&1 if you think you'll need it but against Ogre's he would be wasted, probably Dwarves aswell. I have no experience fighting DE but I wouldn't expect anything special out of this list, try your damnedest to kill that wizard early. Which is where the single crusher could come in handy, mind I would sacrifice my unit of 3 to kill her!


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Follow The Dread Host of Berelith Fell Hand through the Blood in the Badlands Campaign!
http://z7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/inde...0#entry11881810
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DaemonReign
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 12:44 PM


The Eternal Bloodletter
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Firestorm Blade is great for dealing with the Hydra, but this can come back to haunt you if the Dark Elves are also bringing a Pendant-wearing Lord with 2+ Wardsave against Flaming attacks. So it's a risk.

Dropping the Skulltaker (and taking another HoK with Firestorm Blade) is probably what you want to do. I don't ever use SC's myself so.. just listen to Bonesaw666 on that one. smile.gif

Anyway, that'd leave you with a more "all round" combo for the Thirster (that cannot be negated with a 10pts item), and you'll get Locus of Khorne for 2 units instead of one. If the HoK with Firestorm Blade is in the Crusher unit you'll have a pretty good opening for chasing down that Hydra.


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Specialpatrol
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 03:02 PM


Lil' Nurgling


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Joined: 21-February 12



Awesome feedback, guys - thanks again!

I've updated my list to correspond with some of your advice - check it out. At the moment I'm 6 points in the red, which borders on the acceptable, I guess.

A few of my own ponderings...

I'm a bit sad to see Skulltaker go -first off, because I've read several posts claiming that you should 'never leave home without him' and I was personally thinking he might be very handy against the tougher dwarves and ogres, and secondly, simply because I got the bloody model and wanna use that too! wink.gif

I've left the smaller unit of Letters almost barebones, trimmed down the Crushers to 3 (and added a champ - and removed the standard) and finally buffed the Hounds to 6.

I could make both the smaller unit of Letters and the Crushers completely barebones and have them function solely as support units - and then toss those extra points into more Letters for either the smaller or bigger unit. Would this be an idea? Or should I keep these smaller units buffed with full commands etc?

I've added the extra Herald at the expense of Skulltaker and tossed him on a Jugger.

- If I put him with the rest of the Juggers, they suddenly become a quite expensive and fairly vulnerable unit (I assume I don't get the full 'Look out, sir' rule, as it only consists of 3 models - right?).

- If I keep him safe in the big units of Letters - and use him to make solo charges out of that unit - I don't get the added benefit of Hatred, that he would bring over taking Skulltaker...

- So where do I put him?
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Noisy Assassin
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 05:11 PM


Greater Daemon
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I would definitely avoid putting the Herald with the Juggers. Such a small unit will get minced before you get to combat. I'd also recommend against putting the Herald on the Jugger if you face things like cannons. He won't get his Look Out Sir in an infantry block. If you don't face cannons then go for it!

And as far as Skully goes, the funny thing is that you will seldom see a primarily Daemons player tell you to take him at all, much less as a "must have". He's just too situational and doesn't give the locus benefit. Plus now he can be neutralized by very common 10pt magic items (as all his attacks are flaming). Really only time I'd ever want to use him is in a mixed list where you stick him with some Daemonettes and use Siren Song to pull in juicy targets. Don't worry about the model though, you can just use it as a normal Herald (especially since GW refuses to give us models for them!)


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Demons need love too...hugs for everyone!
(>^_^)>

When life gives you lemons, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

8th Edition W/D/L Records with Daemons:
- 7th ed book: 21/1/5
- 8th ed book: 11/0/2
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Specialpatrol
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 10:31 PM


Lil' Nurgling


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Right...

After a bit of pondering, I decided to throw caution to the wind and put Skulltaker back in the list, at the expense of the extra Herald.

Reasons being that I couldn't really find a suitable spot to put that extra Herald - too vulnerable with the Juggers, too expensive for the smaller unit of Letters, too useless on his own... Only place I could think of was in the main unit - which would render his Locus useless, since the BSB Herald is in there as well.

So... back in with Skulltaker!

Granted, he has flaming attacks and can possibly be rendered useless by a scrawny elf with a cheap pendant - but then again, so could the extra Herald, since I had equipped him with the Firestorm Blade (to be able to deal with the Hydra).

So even though I loose a Locus effect (that I had a hard time finding any use for - in the current setup, at least) and +1 str from the Firestorm Blade, I on the other hand get Magic Resistance (2) for my main unit, Killing Blow on 5+ (vs chars), an extra attack - and basically just a whole lotta rape incarnate! (and only at the added cost of 10 pts).

Furthermore, I've found the points for a small unit of Furies by stripping the unit of Juggers and the second unit of Letters bare - leaving them with only a musician for Swift Reform manouvres.

The plan is to reduce their cost and make them function solely as support units to the main unit of Letters. According to the situation, they will be used for screening, supporting/flanking attacks, reserve or denying the enemy access to possible soft spots - while at the same time remaining cheap enough to be expendable.

The go-fast units (i.e. the Hounds and the Furies) will focus on hunting war machines and/or function as additional flankers, if opportunity knocks.

At least that's the plan - question is, do you think it'll float?

And again, about those furies... are they a waste of points or worth taking? I like the idea of having them - but Ld 2 also just spells 'poof' and they're gone! Alternatives could be an extra Jugger, 2 more Hounds or 5-6 more Letters...

(Note: the list in the first post has been updated with the current changes.)
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Noisy Assassin
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 11:43 PM


Greater Daemon
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It looks like a pretty solid list. I'd want a Spellbreaker on the Thirster, but that's just being cautious, as you'd have to drop Immortal Fury for it. As for the Furies, they do a job that nothing else in the army can do. They're cheap redirectors and good warmachine hunters. Flounds won't be too great at WM hunting as they are much slower and have a bigger footprint, so harder to get to the backfield. The Flounds will, however, eat pretty much any support unit (up to and including medium-heavy cav) alive. Only thing that I might switch out the Furies for would be another Crusher to run on his own and go kamikaze enemy wizards. But honestly, I think the Furies are more needed in this list. I'd say try it out and see if you like how it plays then go from there!


--------------------
Demons need love too...hugs for everyone!
(>^_^)>

When life gives you lemons, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

8th Edition W/D/L Records with Daemons:
- 7th ed book: 21/1/5
- 8th ed book: 11/0/2
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Specialpatrol
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 09:17 AM


Lil' Nurgling


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Posts: 7
Member No.: 3,063
Joined: 21-February 12



Did consider taking Spellbreaker as well - but decided not to. I'm assuming it will only come in real handy against the DEs, while it will be wasted against the Dwarves and probably also against the Ogres (dunno too much about the magic capabilities of this army - but given the general dumbness of ogres, I assume it can't be that overwhelming).

The same thing goes for the extra lone Crusher - as has already been mentioned, it will probably only be useful against the DEs, and pretty much wasted against the Dwarves/Ogres. (I could of course let it join the other crushers for those encounters).

A'ight, I'll give this setup go - and hopefully give the others a run for their money to boot! Thanks for all the feedback, guys - I'll let you know how it fares!

Get some! evil.gif
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Cor Leonis
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 09:34 AM


Lil' Nurgling


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Ogre magic comes in three varieties usually. Ogres don't have the strongest magic phase in the game but they do have great anti-magic (obsolete against mono khorne ofcourse).

The single slaughtermaster (lvl 4 mage) with lore of the great maw which focuses on buffing own units. This setup is pretty rare since most ogre generals will want to bring the hellheart and the dispel scroll and therefore need two casters.

SM (maw) + firebelly (fire, duh) is commonly seen and it adds some more offensive spells with the fire lore access.

SM + butcher is the last and I think the most common setup in competitive lists. SM will be (most likely) equipped with death lore and the greedy fist and focuses on stripping magic levels from enemy mages and general death character killing shenanigans. Deathfist variant is fortunately very weak against mono khorne.

I don't think you need the spellbreaker against ogres since they don't rely on some uberspell wrecking stuff. Purple sun is there but it is pretty much useless against khorne and smart ogre generals will not risk misfiring the purple sun on their own I2 units. Watch out for bubbled trollguts though...
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Specialpatrol
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 09:39 AM


Lil' Nurgling


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Duly noted - thanks, Cor!
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