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 1000 Pts Vs Tyranid
Arjax
Posted: Mar 20 2012, 11:31 AM


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I'm going to face a tyranid player in about two weeks, we will either play annihilation or objective control.

Since he wont have tanks I wont have to focus on getting some anti vehicel, and we will spend roughly 5 turns locked in close combat. (with him getting the charge)

His list will look something like this (Nidzilla)

1x Tervigon
1x unit of termagant
1x Hive tyrant
- guard
3x Warrior
1x Warrior Prime
1x Hive guard (str 8 assault 2)
1x unit of 10-14 genestealers OR 2x 7 genestealer
1x Unit of outflanking hormagaunts

Thats a lot of Toughness 5-6, 3-6 wound characters so I got to have something that deals with that.

What i thought of (and please bear in mind that i have never played with demons before)

- Skulltaker, Juggernaut 175
- 4 Bloodcrushers, Fury, instrument 175

- 5 Plaguebearers 75

- 5 Plaguebearers 75

- Daemon Prince, Iron Hide, Mark of Slaanesh, Pavane 150

- Daemon Prince, Iron Hide, Mark of Slaanesh, Soporific Musk,
Breath of Chaos, Instrument 175

- 5 Flamers of Tzeentch 175

total of 1000

My tactic will be to have the Flamers and two Daemon Princes in wave one, knowing he will run a thight formation (we have played before, only me with Space Wolves) Use Pavane and then flame his nids to a crispy death with the 6x breath of chaos.

2nd wave will see the coming of my close combat mini deathstar unit with 4crushers and MC killer, The plaguebearers will be thrown in to tarpit his support or grab objectives.

The only downside to this is that we cant assault after DS. So either wave one will work out, only to be assaulted by most of his army (maybe excl. genestealers and the reserve gaunts) and my backup will not be effective until turn three.

The other way around could be to throw my crushers and plaguebearers in, but when i do that, most of his units will already be swarming around the crushers and I wont have anything to shoot at with my flamers, rendering them quite useless.


Quite a long story as i read it back, but i would like to hear some of your thoughts on my list and how to counter those fleeting lil buggers and hard hitting MC's at the same time.

Also since space wolves cannot DS, how would you advice me to deploy, really close, or just out of his move+fleet+charge range ?


Thanks in advance.
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JonathanC
Posted: Mar 20 2012, 12:50 PM


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My experience against Nids with Daemons is a bit limited but I would say a Great Unclean One would be a good investment as they are excellent monster killers (due to wounding on 2's with re-rolls), and more resilient to massed poison attacks (which Nids are good at) than most Daemons thanks to feel no pain. I'd probably prefer him to either of the DP's or the Flamers. If you know you could be playing objective games I would take more troops, either another unit or just make the two you have bigger, particularly since his list has 5-6 Troops choices with the possibility to create more.


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Come on Tzeentch!

Do you like words and pictures arranged together to tell a story? If so, check out my battle report thread here.
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Arjax
Posted: Mar 20 2012, 01:14 PM


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you'd recon a GUO is better at killing 6 wound toughies then a 4+ instant death? he does has more wounds and FNP but in my experience, the most wounds caused come from Monstrous creatures attacks, and boneswords who both dont allow for armor and fnp saves.

on the flamer part, i really like them but its a one trick pony, i get one round of shooting and then they're dead
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Chaos4reaL
Posted: Mar 20 2012, 01:43 PM


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Skulltakers only really good match up is vs nids MCs as they donīt have inv save. GUO is fantastic with power weapon and 2+ to wound with re roll. A Epidemius list is the best chance vs nids and the only loss I have seen, Epidemius vs nids, is a when nids had 3 mawlocs. Nurgle are perfect vs nids with FnP, T5, re-roll to wound, they hit last as all CD units do anyway and when the tally goes up nothing stops nurgle.

You have to few units, flamers that come in on an icon (close to the enemy) are deadly as cancer and 4-5 should be fine at 1000p . DPs of Nurgle are better then Slaanesh and will do more killing, tougher harder and they have grenades (flies). Horrors are good on hords and would be really nice here. Skulltaker is good but takes up allmost 20% of your list, Herald of Slaanesh have rending, higher initiativ than nids, loads of attacks and hit n run. My 2 cents
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Arjax
Posted: Mar 20 2012, 07:25 PM


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thanks for the feedback, but to get this clear, I change the Skulltaker for epidemus, I guess fattening out my troop choice and change my DP's to Nurgle.

But i cant see how i can fit in Horrors, and a herald of Slaanesh as well, as changing from Skulltaker to Epidemus only buys me 65 points.

Also the grenades on Dp's would be useless since MC's always attack at Init. order due to nothing caring that someone is in a building. (i understand that dp's of nurgle count towards the tally.

I thought about going nurgle against him, but then again, seeing as he will run with both a Hive Tyrant and a tervigon, backed up with 3 warriors and a prime, i fail to see the greater benefit of FNP that comes with a nurgle list since he will ignore armour safes and doesnt really run a horde list, I will need the extra init on my DP's to ensure me striking before his init 5 prime and Tyrant.

I'm sorry if this makes me sound like i dont apreciate your feedback/tips because I really do (and i probably have no rights of arguing because it will be my first ever chaos game) but knowing his list (and what my space wolves endured in CC, a quick and bloody death) the most scary part of his list is the 3-4-6 wound guys, and the clearest counter to that is skulltaker insta-deathing on a 4+. Or am I really underestimating the power power of nurgles wounding on 2's after 10 deaths.

I'd really like a reply on how my view on this is.

edit: just read that MC's attacking units in cover still attack at init.1 guess that will be a blow for my tyranid playing friend, guess thats means that my DP's will get flies or aura
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JonathanC
Posted: Mar 21 2012, 12:06 PM


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Wounding on 2's is great, but in order to bring down the monsters with your Troops you need to get to 20+ kills which could take a while - sometimes until turn 5 in my experience. He will be spawning Gaunts which will make easy kills though, and you can use breath/gaze on the DP's and GUO to help get the tally up quicker.

I think at this points level its 50/50 whether it is worth making a Tally-list or not, and I think if your not sure how to get the most from it then Skulltaker+GUO to take down the monsters should do well enough.

Oh, and definitely always take the grenade options on the Slaanesh and Nurgle characters, as much for the defensive grenades as anything else to limit how much damage you take if you get mobbed. Also the Fury upgrade on the Crushers is pointless other than for wound allocation, so I would try to find the points for an Icon for them instead.


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Come on Tzeentch!

Do you like words and pictures arranged together to tell a story? If so, check out my battle report thread here.
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Arjax
Posted: Mar 21 2012, 08:24 PM


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cheers on the feedback, I appreciate it. So I took a shot at making a Tally list.

1ST wave:
Epidemius
5x Plaguebearers

Daemon Prince: Iron Hide, Mark of Nurgle, Cloud of Flies, Gaze, Breath of Chaos

6x Plaguebearers

2ND wave:
GUO: Cloud of Flies, Breath of Chaos,
5x Plaguebearers

Daemon Prince: Iron Hide, Mark of Nurgle, Cloud of Flies, Gaze, Breath of Chaos

5x Nurglings

took the nurglings because they will add 3 attacks wounding on 2's and 5 bases will take a lot of time for a tervigon to kill because they lack any real offensive, and if they come in on first wave i will have something to hold of early attacks since they dont cost a lot. I could ofcourse if that is better change 2 nurglings for an icon.

And what about my overall decisions on the deployment, would you take a comparable list, and deploy it like I would with epidemius and a DP for quick tally countings, or both the epi and GUO and (hope for best) 2nd turn DP's.

Both lists, IMO are what it takes vs Tyranid in a annihilation battle.

again thanks for the comments and i hope to beat him this sunday.

edit: Just read that DP's with mark of Nurgle cant take both Deamonic Gaze and Breath of chaos, I will change that before hand but will leave it on here since it will give me some number crunching to do
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