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 combat vampire lords/ghoul kings
brother_maynard
Posted: Feb 19 2012, 11:31 PM


Greater Daemon
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so i've played 2 games against the new VC book and both had vampire lord characters kitted out for absolute carnage. i'm pretty sure they both weigh in at about 400 pts. anyone have any tricks they've used for keeping these guys under control?

right now, my strategy is going to consist of keeping important units out of his path and i suspect other people's will look the same. but i am curious if anybody has had success in killing one. i know combat kitted greaters will crush one but he'll likely be avoiding that matchup at all costs...

edit: here's the builds i faced for those interested:

Vampire Lord
Red Fury
Quick Blood
Talisman of Preservation
Sword of Strife
Enchanted Shield
Heavy Armor

Ghoul King
2+ Flaming Ward (can't remember which one)
Sword of Anti-heroes
Other Trickster's Shard
Red Fury
Maybe some other toys


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FeeZ
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 03:16 AM


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I do what you do really, keep away from them, unless I'm strikign with overwhelming force (aka Greaters). This is because they don't really have stat weaknesses that you can use for some sort of stat test or die chicanery.

Vlad + Isabella buses are completely wrong.
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Daimyo79
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 12:12 PM


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I'd usually stay out of the way.......... but


Funniest I saw on the table next to me was a Lord killed by skinks

Lord charges Steg and has one wound so he casts IoN to heal the wound.

lizzy player lets him have it and uses the frog scroll to make him a frog and the skinks kick his face in biggrin.gif




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Mr X
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 05:30 PM


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I haven't played against their new book but I've held up a combat kitted vamp with a Tanky Dwarf Lord before and I've also seen a Bretonian Lord hold up pretty well. I think Greaters are probably the best bet from the Daemon book or a million fiends or furies to speed bump and redirect all game.
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DaemonReign
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 07:33 PM


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Obsidian HoK and 6-dice Birona's??

Haven't gotten around to play with the new book either.. So just guessing wildly here.


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npullan
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 03:37 PM


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Thanks to shenanigans with Common Magic Items and Bloodline Powers, you have to be really careful about sending in a Greater Demon to a combat Vampire. Depending on the build (and presence of a Potion of Strength), the Vampire can quite easily kick a greaters face in.

I find the easiest way to deal with it is to try and lock it down into a challenge. If they take the Bloodline power of +2 WS, they have to issue and accept challenges. Throw in a champion and give up 6 points of kill rez. Then kick his unit's face in so hard you win the combat. If you can get the Vampire to charge you, he has to weather 2 rounds of combat before he gets a chance to rez.

Personally I send my horde of Bletters in. If he issues a challenge, my champion accepts and I pound on his bunker. If he doesn't, I allocate everything I possibly can and hope for the Killing Blow.
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mad lamb
Posted: Feb 27 2012, 11:38 AM


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QUOTE
Then kick his unit's face in so hard you win the combat. If you can get the Vampire to charge you, he has to weather 2 rounds of combat before he gets a chance to rez.

Personally I send my horde of Bletters in. If he issues a challenge, my champion accepts and I pound on his bunker. If he doesn't, I allocate everything I possibly can and hope for the Killing Blow.


Sadly, what happend to me was that horde of ghouls edit in my BLetters block face with VC lord with ASF sword and Red Fury. He casted vanhesl with IF: In my rear he came with Varghulf. Result was that he owerruned 28+herald strong block... I was blink.gif icon8.gif

Red fury+ASF VC lord is horrybler. Here people are trying out even Ghoulkings with +2 or +3A swords, +3S potion and apropriate bloodlines. They are even more deadly.

This post has been edited by squalie on Feb 27 2012, 07:16 PM
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bonesaww666
Posted: Feb 27 2012, 11:53 AM


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Yeah I have mine kitted out with potion of strength, sword of bloodshed, beguile, aura of dark majesty and red fury. Not only is he a pain in the butt to kill but he deals a grievous amount of damage. In larger games I throw him on Terrorgheist and flank him with 2 others to crush an enemies flank and steam roll my way up the battlefield while my foot troops slowly slog up to their front. Throw in a units of Vargheist's for a little extra punch!

This post has been edited by squalie on Feb 27 2012, 07:17 PM


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Colonel
Posted: Feb 27 2012, 12:54 PM


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Luckily Vanhels is now just a normal move up to 8", not a charge.

If my blood letters were in combat with ghouls and a vamp that had to issue challenges, I might decline so I could put the max bloodletter attacks on the vamp. Herald still gives hatred from the back. Killing blow the Vamp and its almost worth the whole unit dying.

Any nurgle character with Miasma would make a fool of the combat vamp. Unfortunately last time my daemons faced the combat vamp my GuO hit/wounded 3 times with balesword and he made all his 4+ wards, he did a few back and I popped.

Last thursday I faced a tooled up vamp in ghouls with my orcs. That unit blew through my 32 savage bigguns with great shaman.. then I hit them with 10 trolls. Troll puke did the vamp in but I had lost the game already. I learned to avoid this unit with anything but chaff or have a good plan on how to deal with him after taking a dozen wounds.
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hornywingythingy
Posted: Feb 28 2012, 06:15 AM


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The changeling? Tbh he can nerf the lord easily, and the horrors are likely to survive the punishment that the vamp unit can pump out.

My favorite build is to have my vamp lord and konrad in the same unit, its really hard to stop both of them slaughtering stuff. I'm also fond of sword of antiheroes on my lord, as it tends to be very cost effective. I haven't lost a game yet with the new vamp book, but from other sites on the web it seems I use a very non standard list.
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FeeZ
Posted: Feb 28 2012, 07:16 AM


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I don't think the changeling nerfs a VL in so much as just delays the inevitable really. Changeling doesn't steal the magic items/equipment of a VL, and the equipment or Vampiric Powers is what makes it truly frightening, not the fact necessarily that it's a S&T5 WS6 or 7 monstrosity.

Maybe the climate of the game is different over there where you live, but a lot of people I face sort of expect a Changeling in a pink horror block, so tend to ignore it like the plague with their characters etc.
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hornywingythingy
Posted: Feb 28 2012, 09:36 AM


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It drops it back to being s and t 3, with one attack, which then adds its magic items/bloodlines bonuses, it certainly helps. Makes it easier for you to kill the vamp lord too.

I see what you mean about the horrors, but the same is true of the greater demon, I would just pin it with a big squad of zombies and tie it up, unless it was a flying one, when I'd issue a challenge with my unit champion, holding it up, then probably the hero in the unit in the second round, you won't do much damage to the unit, and then I can flank charge with vargheists or crypt horrors, either way the greater demon loses out.

But that's just my two pence worth, I'm more of a VC player than demon player so its easy for me to say how I'd counter these tactics.
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Colonel
Posted: Feb 28 2012, 11:53 AM


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QUOTE (hornywingythingy @ Feb 28 2012, 06:15 AM)
The changeling? Tbh he can nerf the lord easily, and the horrors are likely to survive the punishment that the vamp unit can pump out.

In California most events and therefore club gaming, do not allow special characters including Changling.
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DaemonReign
Posted: Feb 28 2012, 11:59 AM


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QUOTE (FeeZ @ Feb 28 2012, 07:16 AM)
a lot of people I face sort of expect a Changeling in a pink horror block, so tend to ignore it like the plague with their characters etc.

Expect?

Don't you mean 'spot a mile away'?

Not that I play with Special Characters (a tradition in our little group, as it were) but why any opponant would ever navigate his tooled up Character (if any kind, let alone a Vampire) straight into the embrace of the Changeling is beyond me tbh.

It's not a hidden unit.


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und_ed
Posted: Feb 28 2012, 12:13 PM


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It isn't, but it's not too hard to play a tight game that forces the Vamp Lord to make some hard decisions - he doesn't want to hit the horrors with the Changeling, knows he will have it flanking him if he hits the centtral block (plaguebearers and daemonettes could both fill this role) and would live a long happy life without walking into S5, kill-blow swinging bloodletters. Suddenly his options aren't looking so great... (Not infallible, obviously, but unpleasant enough to make life difficult)

-und_ed
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