Title: Question about Plauge bearers
Description: General inquiry into the uses of PBs
Order_from_Chaos - June 13, 2012 08:44 PM (GMT)
Hey all. So after seeing that plastic PBs might be coming out within the year I wanted to see what everyone thinks of them from a gaming standpoint. The way everyone in my group has talked about them is that they are pretty bad in this edition since your not getting both regen and your ward.
But I have been seeing a lot of lists that make use of them and I just want to know what they do excel at and what role they play best in a DoC army. Right now I run only bloodletters and daemonettes but with the prospect of plastic PBs I want to know if they are a viable option.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Regalton - June 13, 2012 08:58 PM (GMT)
PBs the way I see them are the DoC anvil unit, just it is a bummer since it got nerfed by having to choose either regen or ward. However, it isn't necessarily bad. Though flaming attacks are common, people who build lists (at least in my area), only have them in forms of magic missles. So at least for me they are pretty badass. I am going to give them a try myself.
Legion - June 13, 2012 09:09 PM (GMT)
PBs are still a nasty unit. Combine them w/ Lore of Light and you have some great synergy w/ that unit! Speed of Light and Timewarp are GREAT w/ PBs. It is actually scary seeing what that unit can do if somehow you get both on them (which I was able to do about a month ago and the unit just CRUSHED what was in front of it!) WS10 S4 T4 I10 troops w/ ASF and Poisoned attacks is just silly!
But like Regalton said, they make excellent anvil units as they are the only unit w/ T4. That and they are only 1 of 2 units that can get a 4+ save of some kind. Use them to take the brunt of the assault and have your bloodletters or daemonettes waiting in the weeds to join in the killing.
DaemonReign - June 13, 2012 11:38 PM (GMT)
... Largely agreeing with what the others have already said. Plaguebearers are quite all right and perfectly usable. They got 'nerfed' with 8th Ed of course, but let's just face it once and for all: That nerf made them properly costed where-as before they were simply a little too resilient for the blanket cost of 12pts in our core section.
So having to choose between regen and ward balanced them, and as far as I understand it they're actually the only correctly costed core choice in our book (Bloodletters are too cheap by 1 or perhaps even 2 pts, Daemonettes and Horrors are overcosted to a varying degree depending on who you ask).
So they are all right. Bloodletters are better all round but I wouldn't bet money on that still being the case whenever our book gets redone. ;)
Hoping for Plastic PBs as well. The sooner the better!
und_ed - June 14, 2012 07:56 AM (GMT)
PBs are more resilient than 'nettes or 'letters, but don't let the initial look fool you - they're not all that much more resilient than the other two.
Let's pull back the curtain a bit - their advantage (in resilience) comes from one higher T and a better save. In most cases, your anvil block needs to hold up the biggest threat your opponent is fielding, which will roughly 70% of the time (my experience, yours may differ) hold a flaming banner, causing the save to be the same. In many cases, the enemy S will be 6, meaning the T bonus is also meaningless. In cases where the S is 5 or lower, the T comes into play, but is almost always offset by the low WS allowing the enemy to hit on 3s, as opposed to hitting the other 2 on 4s. The truth is that the bearers need both the bonus save and toughness to matter if they're to truly be more resilient than their counterparts.
It's not all doom and gloom, but the above needs to be taken into account. Where plaguebearers shine is in holding up moderate monsters (and with poison wounding them, not to mention re-rolls to wound). S5 monsters like warsphinxes and hydras (and even doomwheels) are great targets to neuter with a plaguebearer block. They also soak up shooting far better than the other two combat units, so it's worth directing fire in their direction (for example let your furies screen your bloodletters, forcing the hellblaster to shoot the plaguebearers where you're benefitting from both the T and save bonuses, and their lower WS is meaningless)
Also keep in mind that daemon unit resilience is based in a large part on the number of wounds in a unit, which directly relates to the combat res achieved - so even if you take fewer wounds on your 'bearers, in a dangerous combat you could still easily lose more models by losing combat by a larger margin (since your unit would do far more damage if it was a 'letter unit, for example).
Take 'bearers if you are worried about a lot of shooting, or monsters. If all you want is a melee anvil, just add in another 10 models to your existing bloodletter horde - it will serve you much better, plus it's faster.
brother_maynard - June 14, 2012 10:57 AM (GMT)
in combat, as legion said, they are no slouches and while they won't wrack up the obscene kill count that bloodletters will, they synergize well with a lot of magic lores and are actually fairly difficult for other armies to deal with, especially armies that rely on shooting to chip our blocks down to something they can handle (as has been mentioned already).
one huge advantage that plaguebearers have over bloodletters is the durability of the herald without gifts. 99% of the tournaments in my area comp gifts at 0-1, with the BSB forced to choose between gifts or a magic banner. in this situation, the PB unit looks mighty good, considering it might be bringing the LD banner with it.
und_ed - June 14, 2012 11:58 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (brother_maynard @ Jun 14 2012, 05:57 AM)|
| one huge advantage that plaguebearers have over bloodletters is the durability of the herald without gifts. 99% of the tournaments in my area comp gifts at 0-1, with the BSB forced to choose between gifts or a magic banner. in this situation, the PB unit looks mighty good, considering it might be bringing the LD banner with it. |
This is a really good point, one I didn't consider in my (YAY!) completely uncomped environment.
The Nurgle Herald's innate resilience is definately something worth considering. It's also worth using plaguebearers (+ Herald) as a second-wave unit, being slower to reach the fray and more resilient versus shooting, which is necessary in a second-wave unit that is likely to be on the receiving end of more ranged love than your faster elements that will be in combat within 2 turns.
Regalton - June 14, 2012 03:59 PM (GMT)
Very nice analysis und_ed. +1.