Title: Pestilent mucus.
tor - May 3, 2012 04:06 PM (GMT)
Ok I guess this question have come up before, but I havenīt found the answer.
Is It only possible to kill models In base to base with this gift or do they step up? And how does this gift interact with Miasma of pestilence?
DaemonReign - May 3, 2012 05:43 PM (GMT)
I think you will find the answers you're looking for in the official Daemons of Chaos Errata/FAQ
- Pestilent Mucus effects the models in base contact when the wounds are dealt to the Daemon.
- Miasma of Pestilence lowers their Toughness to 1 (including models that have just stepped up).
tor - May 3, 2012 09:18 PM (GMT)
Thanks, strange that I havenīt noticed that in the FAQ before.
Lord Tremendous - May 4, 2012 12:31 AM (GMT)
FAQ also states that Mucus T rolls are done at the end of combat. So only the models in base cantact with you takes the T tests. So, if four models are in base contact with you and you lost 2 wounds that CC phase then each one of those 4 models would take 2 T tests.
However, remember that no more than 4 models can die even if more than 4 T tests are failed.
And of course, it counts towards CR. :)
brother_maynard - May 4, 2012 01:02 AM (GMT)
Are you sure Tremendous? I thought wounds from CR counted as well.
DaemonReign - May 4, 2012 10:08 AM (GMT)
Wounds suffered from Instability generate those T-tests as well..
I believe all the wounds caused by T-checks prior to resolving combat resolution count toward CR - it's the only interpretation that makes sense.. Wounds suffered from T-checks generated from failed Instability would become very confusing indeed if you counted them for CR retroactively. haha
tor - May 4, 2012 10:15 AM (GMT)
My understanding Is wounds during combat counts against combat res. and wounds suffered due to failed instability forces a new set of toughnesstests.
brother_maynard - May 4, 2012 12:28 PM (GMT)
interesting, we interpret the FAQ's statement "at the end of the close combat phase" to mean that you do not take T tests until the combat and all relevant break tests/flee rolls have been resolved. literally at the end of the CC phase, the mucus T tests are the last things that happen. this means that they are not counting wounds toward CR as when CR is being tallied, they haven't happened yet.
DaemonReign - May 4, 2012 01:29 PM (GMT)
But doesn't the FAQ explicitly answer 'Yes' to the very question whether or not wounds suffered from Instability triggers the Mucus?
I don't know.. I never use that Gift. Don't like Gifts that depend on things 'going wrong'. :)
brother_maynard - May 4, 2012 02:08 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (DaemonReign @ May 4 2012, 08:29 AM)|
| But doesn't the FAQ explicitly answer 'Yes' to the very question whether or not wounds suffered from Instability triggers the Mucus?|
yeah of course, but you might be confused on what i'm saying though since that really doesn't change the way we play it. i'll try to clarify:
enter close combat phase
GUO vs White Lions
1) lions attack GUO and do 4 wounds.
2) GUO hits back and does 7 wounds
3) resolve combat- lions win by 1 and GUO takes instability test. he fails by one and takes a further wound for a total of 5.
4) at the end of the phase (per the FAQ!), the mucus T tests are caused. thats 5 tests per WL in base contact (likely resulting in 4 more dead).
tor - May 4, 2012 02:17 PM (GMT)
I understand what you mean but Itīs almost worthless If It works like that and It also contradicts the wording In the book.
DaemonReign - May 4, 2012 02:44 PM (GMT)
I wouldn't put it as harshly as Tor, but I think the intent of the Gift is that you resolve the T-tests at the very instance they occur.
So in your example, Maynard, I think the White Lions would first take 4 T-checks each as they hit the Daemon, and then after Instability is resolved they take another round of 1 hit each.
Your way of playing it is a simplification that I can understand though. :) I mean.. It's really a lot simpler to "gather up" all the wounds from a given Combat Phase and resolve them once and for all.
brother_maynard - May 4, 2012 03:04 PM (GMT)
|I understand what you mean but Itīs almost worthless If It works like that and It also contradicts the wording In the book.|
since the book doesn't specify that the tests are taken immediately, no it does not contradict the book. furthermore, the FAQ says the tests are taken at the end of the phase, pretty specific and no contradiction.
|I wouldn't put it as harshly as Tor, but I think the intent of the Gift is that you resolve the T-tests at the very instance they occur.|
its very possible that the intent is so, however, as i said above, the FAQ is very specific that the tests are caused at the end of the phase, not immediately.
|So in your example, Maynard, I think the White Lions would first take 4 T-checks each as they hit the Daemon, and then after Instability is resolved they take another round of 1 hit each.|
right, but since the book does not specify exactly when the tests are taken, but the FAQ does, we have to play by the FAQ. thats the whole point of having them, to remove ambiguity.
|Your way of playing it is a simplification that I can understand though. I mean.. It's really a lot simpler to "gather up" all the wounds from a given Combat Phase and resolve them once and for all.|
not only is it simpler, its RAW B) i see your points guys, but the simple fact of the matter is, the FAQ says at the end of the phase. the end of the CC phase is after all combats have been resolved, all break tests taken, and all flee/pursuit rolls made and resolved. thats when mucus tests take place per the FAQ.
and contrary to tor's assertion that playing the gift this way makes it "useless," even playing it this way, it is one of my favorite gifts on the GUO and my current 2500 build (level 4, mucus, stream) has me leaving the balesword by the wayside if i'm 100% honest.
DaemonReign - May 4, 2012 03:15 PM (GMT)
Oh yeah you're right Maynard. THe FAQ says at the end of the phase.. There's no way around that. :)
So yeah, it's RAW all right.. Albeit contradictive since it's supposed to count toward CR as well as being resolved after CR is calculated.. (?)
tor - May 4, 2012 05:04 PM (GMT)
Ok, useless Is an overstatement. But If you would take the test right away It would be Insanely good. Iīm dropping my Balecrutch to, going down the lvl 4 route with Papa now.
Lord Tremendous - May 5, 2012 01:05 AM (GMT)
Just to throw so gas on these embers... :evil:
We interpret the Mucus rule as follows.
(Usuing previous example)
1. White lions do 4 wounds to GUO
2. GUO does 7 wounds to White lions.
3. End combat (After stomps and everything but BEFORE CR is tallied) 4 White lions (Assuming 4 are touching his base) models take 4 T tests. (Adds to GUO CR if test is failed however no more than 4 CR can be added because no more than 4 models can die from these tests)
4. Tally up CR. (For arguement sake we'll say the White lions win combat and the resulting DoC LD roll causes 1 more wound to the GUO)
5. each White lion currently in BtB contact with the GUO take a T test and combat is over. (any White Lions that die from these tests Dont add to GUO CR because that part of the phase is over)
6. Plot VENGENCE
brother_maynard - May 5, 2012 02:06 AM (GMT)
lol, the FAQ says the tests are taken at the end of the phase. if you have your opponent take them at any other time, i'm afraid you're cheating Tremendous-
|QUOTE (Daemons of Chaos @ Update 1.4)|
|Q. When are the effects of Pestilent Mucus resolved? (p94)|
A. At the end of the Close Combat phase.
there's no way around this ruling, it is official as it gets. if you guys want to play it fast and loose with certain rules, that's fine. but you are changing the way the gift works, which i think is rather surprising given the vehement argument you've made in the ETC thread on their doing the same :P
Lord Tremendous - May 6, 2012 11:14 PM (GMT)
No no no, Brother Maynard I think were doing it at the same time I just worded it poorly.
We do all CC T-Tests at the end of combat. I just kinda copy / pasted the earlier example cause I'm lazy.
Are you trying to say you dont add the wounds caused by mucus towards CR? If so... ehhhhhh...... I guess I could get there... but yea, my group counts any wounds caused by failed tests (No more than 1 per model wounded due to those tests however) towards CR for the GUO.
Oh, and ETC is still garbage. lol :)
brother_maynard - May 7, 2012 12:39 AM (GMT)
Calculating CR is done before the mucus T tests are taken, so they can't count towards it.
Lord Tremendous - May 7, 2012 02:41 AM (GMT)
Hmm... Well, cant really argue it. Looks like I have been doing my T-tests correctly but shouldn't be counting the wounds caused towards CR. So here's a quandry then,
What if the opponent flees or if I'm destroyed by CR? When does he take the T-tests? Are they taken after CR is determined and break tests / instability rolls are done? Or just, literally, at the very end of the phase?
Must admit I'm a tad embarressed. :wacko:
ETC is still lame however. :evil: lol!
brother_maynard - May 7, 2012 03:11 AM (GMT)
|What if the opponent flees or if I'm destroyed by CR? When does he take the T-tests? Are they taken after CR is determined and break tests / instability rolls are done? Or just, literally, at the very end of the phase?|
the FAQ says at the end of the phase. so that's after all CR has been calculated, all break tests have been taken, and flee moves have been resolved. when all of these have been accomplished, all enemy models in base contact with the GUO take T tests. if there are no enemies in b2b at this point (because they broke and fled, or your GUO is not on the table anymore), then no T tests are taken because the most basic requirement for the tests (enemies in base contact) is not being satisfied.