Last week I saw a list that had tons of Bloodletters on it. While I do not know how it performed on the field, I started thinking on how could I use them on my list too. They have destructive charge, so even 2-3 letters that reach combat can do massive damage. Thing is that they are very fragile, so to compensate that I decided to pick many units and built a list around the idea that it has tons of targets for opponent to choose from and every one of them can be dangerous on their own. I came up with something like this:

1 x Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch
1 x Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch
1 x Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch
1 x Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch

5 x Fiends, Unholy might
5 x Fiends, Unholy might
5 x Fiends, Unholy might

5 x Bloodletters
5 x Bloodletters
5 x Bloodletters
5 x Bloodletters
5 x Bloodletters

1 x Prince
1 x Prince
1 x Prince
Total: 1500pts.

Idea behind it is that I would bring enough troops for opponent to shoot that atleast something gets into combat. Since I have 15 selections on the list, my starting strenght consists 7-8 units it can bring lots of stuff on the field even on the first turn. Idea is to play extra offensive and not sit the letters on objectives. Any ideas and thought on how this might actually work?

I think with out demonic assault it could work. The blood letters can't beat anything with higher I or in cover with no grenades if the letters are in such small units. The difference in speed is an issue too.

If you split the waves even it is not really a target saturation.

A unit of 20 in the 2nd wave might work better and then you are not auto losing on kill point missions.

It could work (given favourable terrain and deployments) but if you assault anything in cover you will need to do a multiple assault to make sure you have the numbers to hit back with. I'd still prefer slightly larger units of Bloodletters too just to make sure they can survive the initial round of shooting and retain some kill-power, or to stop them being mobbed by stuff like 20 Slugga Boyz.

To help out with the assaulting into cover issue, you could give Princes Mark of Slaanesh and Aura of Acquiescence which costs 10-15pts per model. The Princes could charge into cover and take out some of the enemy before they attack, helping the Bloodletters in the same combat chances of survival and allowing them to mop up what's left.

At that point you might as well just use seekers. They keep up with the fiends better and have AG. Keeps your princes free for Nurgle CC or Tzeench ant-tank.

With a heavy blood letter force you could try the Masque. If you present a serious threat factor in the form of like 40 bletters who just deep striked in the face of the opposing army, she is likely not going to be considered a threat. Her multi-pavane can pull targets out of cover so yer bletters can get to em without losing out on their furious assault init boost.

The hard part is ensuring you can open up enough tanks to give your bloodletters something to assault.

Good idea Marandamir, that is worth considering though I should drop one of the heralds then. Any thought on how this set up would work with daemonettes instead of bloodletters then? They are bit faster with fleet of foot and got the "granades".

With most of your force relying on rending attacks to cut through armour, I think you would miss the guarantee of the power weapons Bloodletters have. It would also be even more important to take larger units as they are more vulnerable to shooting. Combo charges with Fiends/Princes would be just as vital for dealing with tougher units, even if they are in the open, whereas Bloodletters can deal with tough combat units like monsters or Terminators un-aided if they can assault them without cover getting in the way.

However their ability to assault through cover more easily would mean you probably wouldn't need the Masque to pull the enemy towards you.

The fleetness of demonettes tend to make up for the lack of power weapons. bletters suck if you cannot get em into assault, but they are very lethal if you can get em in to combat. Their higher toughness makes em slightly harder to kill and their power weapons and enhanced strength means stuff they hit dies.

Demonettes also have a slight advantage in armor penetration with rending. Bletter max armor penetration is 11 on the charge. That's nice vs rhinos but the ghost arks and command barges from necrons have 11 rear armor, which means they can only glance them. Demonettes can get up to 12 penetration if they roll well enough off the rend. They dish out alot of attacks as well and thus have more chances, especially in big units. So their speed and rending traits allow them to chase down vehicles and enemies easier and still do pretty well in close combat with them.

Weather to use bletters or demonettes tho is really up to personal preference. I love bletters just cuz the models looks awesome. Demonettes are nice but to me a raging demon with a hellish blade is much more demon-like to me. Also, half the armies out there have power armor, so the power weapons on bletters will get used. If you know yer facing tau, orks, or nids, then go with demonettes as you would much rather have more attacks than a power weapon that ignored 6+ armor.

I played a similar list at 1750p and used troops spam

HQ
4x heralds of Tz, legion, master, bolt

Elite
2x5 Fiends
6 Fiends

Troops
2x 10 Daemonettes, transfixing gaze
13x Bletters, fury
12x Bletters, fury
5x Horrors, changling, bolt

In fierce competion I had 1 loss (to the winner of the tourne, footdar list) and 4 wins vs orks, IG, CSM and CSM.

CD troops are really good in numbers and with both power weapons and rending running hand in hand on the battlefield they created mayham. On of my best list IMO and the one with the best result. No matter what they shoot at somthing else takes its place. Every unit can treaten an AV. Even bletter with furious charge and fury did damage to AV. And having the enemy shoot and then an assault right after I poped an AV was perfect as I mostly won in the opponents C.C leving me free for more moving and assaulting the next round! I used Fiends and Heralds as my main tankhunters and my troops for cleaning duty but often my Fiends and heralds slowed the AV down for my troops to assault an immobilised or crew shaken vehicle. They always hit meaning that even glansing hits are fierce as they come in big numbers.

Well, I gave this exact list a couple tries and didn't have much luck with it. Both fights were against skimmer armies, one necron and the other is the scatter laser spam list for eldar. My losses came due to the well-known weakness demons have against armor. Here are my observations:

- Necron vehicles are very problematic. Their quantum shielding makes bolts hard to hurt them with, and their rear armor 11 makes them very hard to hurt in assault by ordinary infantry.

- Assaults vs armor is just highly ineffective. Even fiends with 36 attacks and str 6 have crap chances of glancing. AV 11 you typically need to roll 6s to hit and 6s to pen. Demonettes need 6s to hit, 6s to rend, and ANOTHER 3-4 to glance AV 11, and 5-6 to penetrate it. Meanwhile you are left unengaged and the vehicle just needs to drive away 12" and yer left in the open to be shot to pieces. Eldar vehicles aren't so bad as they have typical rear armor of 10. The flip side is they are fast, and the only thing capable of catching them is fiends.

- Objective missions are a bit tougher for this list. You have plenty of troop choices, but outside of the smaller pink horror unit, the other units are sized to the point of wanting to use them on offense. If you need to dedicate your 12 or 13 man unit of bletters to go hold an objective late game, they aren't in the face of the enemy supporting the other infantry. I think this list could use 1-2 smaller plaguebearer units to help with holding objectives.

- The list did a good job of throwing my enemies off their game a bit. With no armor in my list, they had no obvious targets for their anti-armor guns. In the game vs the eldar a whole unit of fire dragons shot into a lone herald with melta guns and failed to kill it due to the invuln save :)

- Demons have problems with the 'last turn all-out content objective' tactic used by mech armies. Necrons are bad about it as nightscythes can all out 36" and they have the horrid AV 11 rear armor, so infantry have issues hurting it. Being late game you got maybe one turn to kill them.

That is must my thoughts. I liked playing all infantry, but I still had issues with vehicles. Maybe add in more horror units with bolt or put the heralds on chariots so they can survive out on their own, drawing fire away from the other infantry.

@Marandamir. Sry my Heralds were on chariots, forgot to post it.

Over here the marines lists dominate and vs all marines (not GK) This list is almost autowin. I have only played the list in 2 tournes but I have 7-0-2 with it and the only losses were to GK and footdar (Eldar). The weakness is when AV rear isn´t 10 or when there is plenty of low S shooting. I have never faced a list were I feel that AV is a problem but I can see that Necrons would be. Even my 5x PBs have taken down 2 Ravens in a game!! Sure thats sheer luck but having 30 attacks S5 (bletters) that hits on 4+, 5s to glanse and 6s to pen. Thats 33% to roll succesfull and rending you at least one imob, wrecked or explosion result.

My bolts usually give 3 pen /round and usually they pen mening the AV can´t move or fire meaning that assaults auto hit and thats 10 dice that should get glansing or pen meaning that the AV is opened!

Have one of the biggest tourne of the year comming up in 2 weeks with 80 lists! I will be playing this list again and with a little luck with the draw I should be looking at top 20. Hopfully B)

The list I setup in army builder couldn't afford chariot upgrades on the heralds. :blink:

As for marine lists I can see this doing a bit better. However, I am not seeing where you are getting 3 pens a turn off you bolts. You have a total of 5 bolts in the army. that means 2-3 will hit and shooting at AV 11 that is only 1 glance, 1 pen, and 1 bounce. Demonic assault limits how many you even get on the board turn 1, and the enemy can also further diminish your results with cover saves by popping smoke or using other game effects.

Also, assaults only auto hit if a vehicle is immobalized or stationary on it's last turn. If you stun a vehicle (and it doesn't reduce this to shaken via extra armor) in your shooting phase, you don't auto hit it during your assault phase if it moved on its last turn. Future assault phases you would, but only if your infantry didn't get shot to crap or the stun/shaken result didn't get negated (GK and necrons both do this now) and the vehicle didn't just drive off. My experience is that your assaults on vehicles typically need 6s to hit and 6s to pen. So I see very few pens on an assault, even by a large unit, and those still need to roll a 5-6 to destroy the vehicle.

I do aim to play this list against my space wolf player the next time I get a game going with him. I do enjoy this list very much, but to me it still has problems in a 5th ed mechanized metagame.

One question, blood angels are making a pretty big showing and feel no pain marines are annoying as hell to deal with. Bletters handle them with ease but demonettes and fiends are hit or miss. Do you just trust in the rending ability or have you seen success with just the sheer amount of attacks you make in assault?

A common death star unit I've been seeing is this:
Assault terminator unit
3 lighting claws
2 T. hammer and Storm shield
Librarian in terminator armor w prefered enemy and 5+ cover save power
Sang priest in terminator armor
Land raider transport

This is like a 700 pt unit, but it is freaking killing machine and very mobile. You can deep strike the raider if you feel daring or take an empty drop pod on a unit with a beacon to land the LR near it and avoid scatter. Or you can just trust in the AV 14 with extra armor and deploy it and haul ass to wherever you need it. The unit itself is nigh unkillable as well. 2+/3++/4+++ on 2 models, 2+/5++/4+++ on the rest. All in a Land raider which can only be glanced by the bolts and fiends in this list (fiends glance odds are pretty astronomical as well).

Do you have any tactical advice for dealing with BA in general or this particular monster unit? Blood letters I think will chew it up, but demonettes and fiends I think would have issues against it. 2+ armor and FNP means only 1 in 12 wounds would actually kill something. Rending would be key and even then they can stack them on the storm shield guys to get the 3+ invuln.

@ Marandamir. The BA "deathstar" usually gets the assault and usually picks the Fiends, Chariot or Daemonmettes in my lists. If they pick Daemonettes or chariot I´m glad becase that gives me time to get more units in there since I always travel as thight as possible with my units waving foward picking thing of one by one. Daemonettes have higher initiative and I try to get as many as possible to hit on the claws to weed them out before they can hit back. With Fiend and chariot you pretty much just hope they can hold on till my turn when help arrives. Usually the deathstar can´t kill the unit and I get another unit in there and end it. So yes, shear number of attacks and initiative are what I trust in to get me throu.

My biggest problem with BA is the Furioso that always goes after my Bletters and the deathcompany with re-rolls to hit and to wound. My mate that playes BA refuses to play me when I play hord Daemons. I can´t win he says and I agree, he can´t. Marines are favored opponents with this list.

Last game I faced BA and my fiends, 2 units total of 8 w. 2 might, assaulted a LR and got 2 explosion results! Sure its a slime chance but it´s there. Usually I ignore LRs till the end when I have nothing better to do with my bolts and assaults.

Assaulting a LR is rough. nearly always you need 6s to hit, 6s to rend, and another 6 to 5-6 to GLANCE, unless you got might, then that one guy can pen if he rolls that 3rd 5-6. Even if you do glance or pen, you need ANOTHER 5-6 to do any meaningful damage to it. I would still try, but in my mind its just silly to think you will roll a 6 four times in a row. In my last game I assaulted two eldar war walkers squadrons on turn 2 and on turn 5 I finally was able to take them out (and they are a pathetic AV 10!)

I'll keep this list in mind for my marine friends tho. how do you split the list for demonic deployment? Do you spread out, flank, or cluster up when you deep strike? i've been usually loading up a flank with infantry, and dropping the fiends near bigger threats to both draw fire away from infantry and to get into assault quickly vs key enemy threats (like the 9 enemy war walkers mentioned above that shoot 76 TL scatter lasers a turn).