Alrighty, I recently went to a tournament where I thought I could give Eastern's MSU notion a fair go. We had a 3-game, one-day tournament, 2K, anything goes (special chars, etcetera) with some slight scenario variants, the only one that really mattered being that the Watchtower was instead a "watch-hill", so therefore much easier to take / retake.

Inspired by Brother Maynard, I tried out windows moviemaker and made some videa battle reports, so here's the linkys:

Game #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5UoGoDghR4
Game #1, Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP9gWHJ9Ci0
Game #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNe8V0BczoQ
Game #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xn51fOFRRE

Enjoy, any comments or advice appreciated.

-und_ed

Wow. Just watched the 1st battle and I'm truly impressed. Thanks a lot for that.

I suppose (without ruining things or giving a spoiler) that it all built up to a crescendo at the end. That last pic was epic and I guess what you had hoped for.

Regarding the Vampire Lord: I think i would have shied away from it just hearing how powerful it was. Would you have done anything differently given the chance or was that exactly how you wanted to play it?

Also do you think the screamers were worth it in hindsight?

I'm at work so I've only had time to watch the first one too. Great report.
I'll report back when I've had some peace and quiet for watching that second report as well! :)

Congrats on the success !

I watched all the videos and I was very surprised how well you did, seemed like you really knew what you were doing :D

I'd be fun to see this list in action against some lists that aren't just so many big blocks (VS and Lizardmen). I played a tournament recently (2250) and fought two Lizardmen armies who both only had one big block of Saurus, two stegs and 3 salamanders. Would you say that the lists you fought against were rather "normal" or unusually infantry heavy ? (Just wondering, I'm from Iceland and most players here seem to run a much chaff/support unit heavier lists).

I had intended to avoid the Vamp Lord all game, but I blundered in the first turn letting him cast that big Van-Hel's, so I had to settle for plan B, which was the orchestrated dog-pile you saw at the end. I would hvae preferred to avoid him completely, since his killing power was frankly obscene. (Actually, if was more like plan C - plan B was to dog-pile him, but keep him in contact with plaguebearers where he is only wounding on 3+ and I'm not being forced to reroll my saves)

The screamers were fantastic, definitely worth it - but only in this style of list methinks. I've brought them out in a normal list before to a tournament, and they were utter dead weight. This list relies on attrition and having multiple interference units, so they were pure gold here.

-und_ed

Thanks. I was pretty shocked myself, truth be told.

The very blocky lists are pretty much par for the course here. I know a lot of European locales have fairly heavy comp restrictions, which limits the size of big blocks - we don't have that, and the obvious power of big blocks shines through. I think people were a little too fond of the big blocks in this event since the tourney was only 2000 pts, and not 2500 which is our usual size, but yes, big blocks are pretty standard fare. I'm still not sure how I'd face an O&G army that spams big blocks, since I wouldn't be able to surround them, but after the Vamp game I think I have the tools to make a decent game of it.

It's worth noting that there were a fair number of newbies in the tourney, and big blocks are VERY newbie-friendly. The third opponent, the Lizardmen player, was the one truly experienced player I faced, but since he's obsessed with his frog he had a fairly blocky typical lizzie list as well. Using interference troops is hard, and a lot of newbies shy away from the challenge in favour of just spamming infantry. A mistake in my opinion, but it takes a lot of painful lessons to learn to use the chaff well.

-und_ed

un_ded- fantastic reports and i have to say I loved the screamers as well. As you can see MSU can work ;) Now inspired by this I am making some small changes to my MSU army before I will play next battle. Still going to write my report vs ogres (funny thing is that I noticed from the pictures that I didn't deploy my second unit of furies at all ha ha).

I won't have time to properly watch them til this evening but I treated myself to a sneak preview of the first video and I'm very exited to dive into them later today!

Brilliant battle reports. Really got me thinking about MSU. Iv also been toing and throwing between a BSB with sundering, and listening to your lizardmen report, I'm convinced. Thanks again keep up the good work.

This morning I treated myself to the other two reports. Brilliant stuff really.

This is kind of show I would like to force the ETC-crowd to watch for 2 days straight until they stop fixing stuff that ain't broken. ;)

With the notation that 2 of these opponants were pretty green it's still awesome to see an MSU army perform this well against those terrible, unbalanced, impossible, broken, boring, no-brain, Hordes. *haha*

It's like a testament to the awesome dynamics of 8th Edition. Narrated by a refined Brittish accent that reminds me of my high-school English teachers rather than Dennis Leary! ;)

Really exciting stuff.

Haha!

You just made my day. I despise hearing my voice played back, reminds me of the South African accent I keep assuring myself I don't have :rolleyes:

Glad you guys enjoyed 'em. I might have another event coming up where I can use an MSU list at 2500, so I'm psyched to try it out again.

-und_ed

Yep just watched the others and very impressed indeed.

Oh and nice report too Und_ed, looking forward to some more, if you don't mind!

Got a game tomorrow night against O&G, gonna see if I can turn it into another batrep.

I'm loving this notion more and more - lets hope my enthusiasm survives my first loss.

-und_ed

Great use of your smaller foot prints man, the second battle was a little confusing to me as I would have charged with my BT far earlier, a model of that points magnitude has to be stuck in or else. When he flapped him to the other side I swear it looked similar to watching a man piss into the wind...
Way to handle the VC! If the guy is new I think it would be awful white of you to tell him to get some Crypt Horrors, they are mandatory IMO.
After blundering about with Hexwraiths you have inspired me to give Screamers another kick at the can (Seriously they are better at what matters then HW's lack of movement makes them garbage.).

Interesting comments, bonesaw.

I agree, the BT was poorly played - the guy's a 40K player, only just starting Fantasy, and I think he's a bit nervous with his BT. I'd have also been much more aggressive - probably not charging turn #2, but landing behind my lines, threatening everything with a rear charge.

Vamps was my first game against the new VC, so I'm not sure how good or otherwise crypt horrors are. They look interesting, but if I played VC my priorities would be Vargheists and hexwraiths - I prefer hard-hitting to survivable, hence vargheists, and I wouldn't be taking hexwraiths for the run-through damage, but for a vanguarding S5 ethereal unit to take a flank out of the game (useless against Daemons, but that's a chance I can take).

I wouldn't take screamers in a normal Daemon army - I've trotted them out before to a tournament, and they were complete dead weight. They work really well in this army because it's such a denial-heavy army. I'll post up the game against O&G sometime this weekend, and again they are pure gold (as are the flamers, bless their little cotton socks)

-und_ed

Wow, those reports were a really fun watch. You've got me intrigued about trying the whole MSU thing now (although I'd have to get my a** in gear and finish a whole bunch of stuff I've got lying around).

Congrats on managing to table three opponents in a row! Watching your games it's pretty clear that you more than know your way around both Daemons and Warhammer in general. And definitely keep making batreps, they're awesome!

O&G Batrep up.

Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze9dJEygOJQ
Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5jkgdCDe4

so first victory that didn't in fact table my opponent (although only 1 wounds away...), I'm getting a better handle on how to control the pace of the game with MSU. I'm absolutely in love with this style of Dameonic gaming, so will see how they do in 2 weeks time at a slightly larger upcoming tournament. Also the first game where I wasn't stuck into my opponent in turn #2, nice to see I don't have to rush quite as much as I'dinitially thought.

Glad you guys are enjoying the batreps, it's really much easier to discuss a notion when there's something tangible in front of everyone to make sure we're all discussing the same thing (not to mention they're kinda fun to make, and I know I've enjoyed watching Maynard's video batreps).

-und_ed

Wow great reports... been waiting days to see these :P

The thing i'm beginning to notice is that your opponents never really get the chance to attack, sure his chariots went charging, but other than them and the out of control squig, he sat there and took it for the entire game... which I would put down to them poorly playing... they were so worried about the few fanatics... it was reminiscent of the bloodthirster flapping about not knowing where to go, I think if they actually get stuck in instead of trying to pick there battles, they might do better... that's the current thing with the meta game, everyone tries to pick what to fight, and to get flank charges. I don't think it would matter that much.

but yeah, I was going to say it could be down to a poor opponent, but clearly you know what your doing, very well played und_ed... i'm very tempted to take an msu list to the next big tourney, because from what I've seen from you and eastern barbarian... people don't know how to respond today... you mentioned that he didn't panic and kept his bsb and general near his night goblins, but from turn 2, maybe 1, you had him on the defensive, from the video it appeared that he wasn't sure what to attack (which is the benefit of MSU) and I think that his indecision was what ultimately cost him the battle

You very well might be right, Zhambah. He needed to put pressure on me, and all the pressure was on him from turn #1. It might have paid him to just charge the NGobbos into my fiend, take the fanatic pain, and march the Ord big 'uns up next to them in order to put some pressure back on me.

Still, even shoving himself forward is only marginally effective, since he could end up in the exact same boat as the vampire player did, right up against my lines and still unable to charge.

That indecision is definately a liability, and (for a short while, at least) will definately be a notable advantage in favour of any MSU armies hitting the field.

-und_ed

I had actually missed that you posted up a new game a few days ago, but this morning I treated myself to your massacre of the OnG Army.

As for 'what mistakes' your opponant made:
It simply looks to me as though he wasn't really prepared for Daemons coming at him with an MSU concept. My guess is that he would have stood much better of a chance if he had centered his Deployment much more. Sort of like a "Dwarf-deployment" with the infantry blocks pressed together in a thick line and all the Warmachines 'behind' the line.

It seems to me that he used a more 'standard' deployment here, spreading out evenly over the the deployment zone. And that frankly just seems to have given you too much leeway to just.. well.. do what you do best! :D

He couldn't do a standard deployment - it was 'Dawn attack', which spreads you out despite your best intentions (same reason my plaguebearers were so badly placed...)

-und_ed

True. Forgot about that.

Not a daemon game, but fun nonetheless.

Tomb Kings Vs Lizardmen.

Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WztoMSTdeOc
Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-7Poicbr3Y

-und_ed

Well, I don't think I'll have any 'thoughts' that'll be worth your while but I certainly enjoyed watching.

I think you were fighting an uphill struggle right from the start of the game, and actually did remarkably well concidering what you were up against.

It's kinda funny because I just posted a batrep where I pretty much did the opposite of what you did: Invested waay too little in magic and ended up in some pretty bad combats for it.

I'm glad to see you're giving TK some more chances btw, becayse yeah I remember you being all doom and gloom about them here on the Forum.

Well, keep 'em coming! Hopefully lady luck will be more on your side in the next one!

I still am (doom and gloom), but damnit I love the models so I'm trying desperately to make something playable out of the unbelievable monument to failure that is the TK book.

-und_ed