Title: Daemons and chaos marines
deviant cadaver - March 30, 2012 09:02 PM (GMT)
I have heard some people saying that there is a chance the new CSM book will have daemons in it again.
On one hand it gives us a ton more options and a way to sure up what our book lacks and you have the units so you have most of a new army with out having to buy anything.
On the other hand id feel really cheated to just have my book pulled out from under me.
How would you guys feel about it ?
JonathanC - March 30, 2012 10:30 PM (GMT)
Well they have infantry Daemons and Greater Daemons now, but nobody fields them....
From what little I've heard it may be they are getting proper versions of the GD's and infantry Daemons, but not stuff like Screamers, Fiends, Flamers, etc. Rather than fully fleshed-out versions like we get they *could* have a generic profile but with a bunch of gifts and USR's added on top to make them 'like' proper Daemons. If they do something like that it would be to cut down on the number of unit entries to save space in the book. Codex: Chaos Legions sounds like its going to be a very large codex like the SM one. No idea if this is all true or not and some of its just speculation based on what GW have done before or what other people have been saying.
I'd be very annoyed if it made our current Codex defunct, but I don't think thats likely. Hopefully we'll get an update (even if its just via the FAQ's or White Dwarf) before too long. On the plus side it looks like plastic Plaguebearers and maybe some other new models we can use will accompany the book's release.
I'm actually more worried on what effect the coming 6th ed rules will have on our army. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they are like as I'm getting a little bored of 5th ed and it needs a shake up, but I have this nagging feeling the change won't help Daemon armies much. :unsure:
deviant cadaver - March 31, 2012 03:28 AM (GMT)
No were daemons can go but up in 6th. Here is hoping for armor and invul save as well as a change to deep striking and transport.
Chaos4reaL - April 1, 2012 06:09 AM (GMT)
I have heard a lot of talk about chaos legions and that there will be a very thick codex like SM. Hopefully few of our good units will go and better will replace but seeing how CD seem to be a very unbalanced armie on purpase the last editions I hope that all that's about to change with the new rules and chaos codex. To few are playing CD and buying their models so that's something GW whants to change for sure. My personal hope is that not only will there be legions of chaos but also that the new rules will give us a bump for the better. That rolles for waves only misses on 1s or not at all. That one character will help our DS and maybe even let us assault a little from DS turn. In my book GW owes CD a lot for putting GK on this earth and misstreating our codex. It's time for chaos
deviant cadaver - April 2, 2012 06:03 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Chaos4reaL @ Apr 1 2012, 01:09 AM)|
| In my book GW owes CD a lot for putting GK on this earth and mistreating our codex. |
GW1:"Hey I got an idea , lets make a low model count army OP so everyone will buy it!"
GW2 :"Hmmm that's not bad bit lets make it simple to play and give it great shooting , CC and a ton of little special rules to ignore shaken and stunned, crazy grenades, force weapons to kill big stuff, I 6 to kill fast stuff and cleansing flames to kill hoards.
GW3:" Now you're talking, Well they have to be space marines and GK would work as an elite army"
MATH:" They are already undercoated as they are wouldn't it be kicking a tough codex while it is down to throw on a munch of special rules that just hurt daemons and warp quake alone makes it not fun."
GW3: Your right we should give everyone warp quake!"
Math:"That's not what I said ... Never mind I quit."
Well we can hope they will make daemons better to sell more GK at least.
Marandamir - April 2, 2012 05:44 PM (GMT)
The 6th ed rumors aren't really helping demons from what I've heard. I believe there is a blanket Feel no pain change that reduces the save from 4+ to 5+. That will nerf nurgle right out the window. There is also rumors of reactive options for models on the board. Like if a unit deep strikes within 18" of a unit, that unit can open fire on it. So not only do demons have to play with half their army the 1st turn, the benefit of all deep strike is wasted as our stuff gets shot to crap on our turn, and then on their turn. There is also rumors that the new flyer unit types (or supersonic traited flyers) cannot be assaulted. While that makes perfect sense, it leaves demons with our ass hanging out again as some of our best anti-armor is with monstrous creature assault.
I'm pretty scared of 6th ed for demons. I'm worried that Chaos Legions will merge chaos marines and demons together vs keeping us separate. I'm also worried that we'll be a super late codex update and we'll suck nads worse than now for a year plus after 6th ed comes out.
Time will tell.....
Zechs - April 2, 2012 07:26 PM (GMT)
I for one would love it if at least our troop daemons got back into the chaos marine book. Generic lesser and greater daemons is frankly the worst unit idea I've ever seen (and this includes wolves riding wolves and oblitomonkeys). That would not invalidate the daemon codex, that's just retarded. Eldar codices of both types share harlequins, daemons and marines share the spawn & prince, and marine armies share loads of stuff from tanks to troops.
Not only that, I hope they add loads of new daemon engines that we will then see show up in chaos daemon armies too. I always felt the soul grinder fluff was like an intro to a whole host of daemon engine options the daemon codex was robbed of, probably due to fear of investing too much in a -new- codex, so instead they just plopped the daemon prince in there and called it a codex.
JonathanC - April 2, 2012 07:57 PM (GMT)
I think you have a point that in some ways we are suffering from 1st codex symptoms, some pretty good units that were very powerful when the book came out but not a huge range of choice. Same was true of Necrons and Tau when they first came out, and look at how much Necrons have come on since. Assuming we aren't folded (and I seriously doubt we will be) then we can look forwards to a lot of expansion next time around. Rumours are CSM will get more Daemon engines so hopefully they will transfer across like Zechs says. I'd love us to get some of the smaller ones that used to be in Epic like Tzeentch Doomwings. Advantage of Daemon models of course is that they sell for WFB as well (apart from Soul Grinder of course), so why not have some of our models that sell for CSM too? GW gets more sales like they do for many Marine units and makes it easier to devote more time to creating other stuff instead.
Marandamir - April 2, 2012 11:14 PM (GMT)
I hope you guys are right. I just read 'codex: chaos legions' and I don't see a delineation between marines and demons. I can see them pooling both the chaos marines and demons dex's into the same book and making it like vanilla marines currently. IE you play chaos marines, or you take some specialized HQ choices and that opens up list options to play all demons. Hopefully, that won't be the case. I would like to see some core demon units shared as well. I really like the chaos armies and would happily play both, and using bletters or plaguebearers in both armies would be pretty cool.