I am really taken with the whole MSU concept and I have seen it work repeatedly, sO i decided as my next project to do demonic MSU.

thinking along the line of 3x12 bloodletters, 3x12 demonettes, 25 plaguebeaers, 2x3 flamers, 2x1 fiend, 2x1 bloodcrusher and some heralds (nurgle BSB one definitely) and maybe few nurglings just to get scouting as well.

Now- would you guys take two tzeentch heralds with master of sorcery for that setup, different lores? or perhaps you would just concentrate on one?

Any ideas welcome.

I cannot imagine MSU working in 8th edition... let alone for DoC. While I have zero advice for your idea (Other than to not do it. lol!) I am very interested to hear about any success or failure you experiance once you implement this idea. Please post battle reports, or at the very least, keep us updated on how your MSU armies fair!

-Tremendous

The Problem for us using MSU is loss of Herald Locus which is where our troops really fancy up, so if your going to try this I would recommend Lore of Light as it will help restore what your essentially giving up. On that note are you taking a Herald of Nurgle? If no I would recommend dropping them in exchange for 'letters.
Are you planning on taking a GD?

While I don't think traditional MSU will work in 8th, I've toying with a slightly different, related idea lately. Here's a post of mine shamelessly copy-pasted from my local gaming forum, describing it:

So my latest toy's had me thinking about a different list-building style and general strategy.

The premise being that the list is consisting of smaller units than my usual Bodies on the Field approach, typically anywhere between 18 to 30-strong units. This won't allow for many more units, as the extra points will be taken up by high-level wizard(s) and magical support. The basic idea is to have a number of units (minimum three) that are all competent in combat, but go into combat thoroughly buffed up. The lack of any huge units means the army does not have the single target problem, where in one crucial turn the enemy uses a dispel scroll to wreck one crucial turn of magic, and destroys your prize (expensive) unit.

The requirement for this is some way to create a very powerful magic phase, usually through items / abilities / characters that generate extra power dice, and access to multiple dangerous buff spells (I count debuffs as the same thing, since the effect of +1S versus -1T is pretty much the same) so that your opponent cannot just hold all his dispel dice for your only dangerous buff spell. (In some cases this may require taking more than one wizard, or one very expensive wizard). The obvious single-point-of-failure is the death of your wizard, so she needs some protection as well. Net result is a powerful, reliable magic phase.

Thoughts on this? I'm gonna try it out anyway, but it would be nice to get some reflection.

P.S.
The latest toy I referred to is Kairos Fateweaver, pretty much the only way to create a dominant magic phase with daemons imo.

-und_ed

@Lord Tremendous- MSU does definitely work although it need a lot of skill and practice. I really recommend reports written by SmithF on warhammer.org.uk http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=94537 he mainly plays Empire MSU, but ventures into O&G, WoC etc. with a lot of success.
I definitely think it will be much more rewarding experience trying this tactic rather than pushing massive hordes of bloodletters around the table ;)
Of course i will do my best to record my experiences here in order to improve my skill and get a feedback.
@bonesaww666 I am not really planning on taking a GD. Part of MSU strength is that it lacks easily identifiable targets. Also loading 500-600 points into one model won't really allow me to put too many of those small units :) As for nurgle boys- yes, i am taking Nurgle BSB , that will be my more "reliable" block that can take a lot of punishment.
But still- main question is for me- two tzeentch heralds or just one?
I am thinking khorne herald as my general, possibly firestorm blade and armour. But I am also thinking about monster-hunting herald with firestorm blade and possibly on juggernaut. Any feedback is welcome, soon I will try to present first draft of army list with perceived roles for each unit as well.

hm.. response seems to be overwhelming ;)

its hard to offer constructive criticism. you're at that point where none of us have any expertise in the area that you're venturing into. nothing left to do now but try out different things and post battle reports ;)

i suppose so. decided on two tzeentch heralds. toying with an idea of khorne herald on jugger as my general. do you reckon its too risky?

well i think its risky for the herald but not for your army. i have been flirting with an MSU style for several months with my slaanesh/seeker list, and i've realized that having smaller units really spreads the risk around and if you lose your general (unless its a greater) or caster its not that big of a deal. your list has much smaller units than anything i've ever used but i think the principle would remain the same.

basically i am trying to weight pros vs cons of having herald on jugger (with firestorm blade) vs herald on foot. One on jugger will have better mobility (can always try hunting monsters with him etc.) but at the same time i do think he can be a bullet magnet...

Ok, I guess I just need to playtest every idea i have ha ha :)

Yeah the Herald on Jugger will attract alot of unwanted attention... I see the bonus in mobility but there is a bonus in security... Without something to draw fire away from him I don't know if I would recommend it

Here's your real problem (in the thread, not the game) - most of the ideas you're asking about we've considered, and decided against. That's not to say they're necessarily unworkable, but really what more are we gonna have to say about them?

Now if you can show us how you're planning to get around our problems with those ideas, then maybe we'll have something to discuss.

-und_ed

So any games yet? I don´t like to have my Herald on a Jugger and If you mount him on a Jugger wouldn´t It be even cooler to mount him on a chariot ;)
Two heralds Is good but maybe just maybe one of them should have Power vortex?

i wasn't really aware of those ideas being discussed, being on the forum for not long time. I thought that surely more experienced players would like to discuss possibilities, point certain things out etc. but it seems not to be the case- judging by your post und_ed it seems that instead of asking you for example whether I should have two heralds of tzeentch or one etc. I should come up with solutions myself since apparently you have discussed it before. Hey.. and "maybe" I will even get a response. Amazingly encouraging approach let me say ;)

Now, on to my list. If anyone wishes to add some sort of ideas/constructive criticism you are more than welcome


I am making khorne herald my general- give him armour and firestorm blade to deal with regenerating nasties.

2x tzeentch heralds. Both master of sorcery, I am thinking one light to buff my unit and offer some sort of protection vs shooting and other one shadow to debuff enemy's units. Now one is definitely going to have wings (light) whereas I am debating whether give my shadow herald either spell breaker and disc or wings as well and then no spell breaker. Being on a disc obviously means that he is more likely to get shot at and targeted with spells so I am not sure of spell breaker is somehow offsetting it. Definitely in two minds about it.

Nurgle BSB with slime trail and stream of bile. Paired with a light lore and his presence in unit of 24-25 plaguebeaers means that i will have potentially deadly unit and with their regen and t4 they can take fair bit of damage and act as road block.

Core:

12 x bloodletters with musician
12x bloodletters with musician
13x bloodletters with musician and champ (that will be unit with khorne general.. champion to accept challenges if i am dealing with something likely to kill my general quickly)

12x demonettes with musician and banner of ecstasy (again, with banner of ecstasy hopefully it can act as a roadblock for units with less attacks)
12x demonettes with musician
12x demonettes with musician

25x plaguebearers with FC and banner of seeping decay

3x flamers
3x flamers

1 fiend
1 fiend
1bloodcrusher
1 bloodcrusher


Now that leaves me with 74 points. This in setup with disc and spellbreakers. Without a spell breaker I have 99 points. So i have different options here I suppose. If i take disc and spellbreaker then 5 furies and one extra demon of that sort of another. I can also leave spell breaker out, give herald wings instead and dropping one plaguebearer i have 111 points, which can buy me 3 nurglings for scouting and general annoyance. Of course I can also get couple more fiends and have 2 units of 2 or unit of one and unit of three.

Obviously that list will have to be played carefully. Its good sides are no obvious targets for deadly spells, artillery etc. Minus is that I need to be very careful with getting multi charges, as that type of army really relies on them.

Well I don't really know if you need-need a Spell Breaker due to the lack of target priorities but it may be nice to have around to stop an Okkam's or other generally devastating spell...
Not sure, looking forward to your reports man!

Buddy I know you dont want to hear this... but after looking at your list all I see is weaknesses... no strengths. In a partners game... with say TK or VC this list would be powerful suport to be sure. Alone however, With units getting the step up rule no matter how high your ini is with your demonettes or Letters your opponent with normal 20X bricks are going to eat you alive in CC and vape the small units with rez. Not to mention, any mosnter (Ogres, Stegs, Carnisaurs, Hydra, Anything with High Elf in the name) is going to trample your units and without models to soak up those wounds you'll have to roll out of the box in every game in order for you to see success with any kind of frequency.

I've read your buddies MSU reports on the thread you linked... and I can see how he's having some success, but empire models are like 4 points each... not 12 AND SO he gets alot more MSU units than DoC players can get. Plus.... some of his opponents made some unbelieveably foolish moves and seemed kinda.... well BAD at WHFB.

Far be it for me to "poo-poo" an idea that you are clearly VERY dedicated to... and good on you for thinking outside the box, but I just don't see how this is going to do anything but dissappoint you. Unless your a tacticle genius or you cheat like an artist I think your battle reports will be mostly about you slowly comming to terms with the fact that MSU just doesnt work for DoC. (And thats whatmost of us have been trying to tell you with varying degrees of niceness)

please dont take offense. Not trying to berate you or anything I'm just trying to prepare you for what I see as a major let down and maybe try to explain why most of us are keeping silent about your idea.

PLEASE feel free to prove me wrong with battle reports (with pics!) :D

-Tremendous

I see what you saying. I will give it a go and perhaps if pure MSU is not doable, then I will try to go as close to that idea as possible. I have seen MSU work really well for Empire, Dark Elves, Lizards (but then it always worked for them so nothing new here), High Elves, O&G and WoC. Lets see. It will need a lot of playtesting for sure, perhaps having bit more demons in each unit.. we will see.

Thanks for the post anyway :)

I would think daemonettes would be the only unit you would want to go MSU with, as the high init and 2 attacks would benefit more from buffs, and high move can help you choose combats.

I would suggest a flying loremaster of death, as purple sun and character sniping will get you more casting dice and quick points. Make this guy a BSB with -2Ld banner for back field panic. A loremaster of light with spellbreaker would be my second.

I would take a unit of like 10 harpies to fly around near the death wiz for look out sirs and charges of opportunity.

Blocks of nurgle would be a prime target and a non starter IMO. I would likely take 4x15 daemonettes and no other core.

Flesh hounds and medium sized fiend units should be good for this list as they are fast, flamers are fast and destructive and can abuse stubborn in forests.

I think Beastmen could really do this better with the shard of herdstone for lots of dice, cheaper units that can flee and ambush..

You misunderstand me, eastern.

I'm saying that notions like MSU you asked about, and most of us said we thought it was unworkable. How do you plan to deal with the following issues playing MSU?

- big dangerous units, that require multiple units dying to weaken. Smart opponents just start retreating after killing one or two intial units.
- Steadfast units securing flanks
- Poor return on investment from heralds.
- refused flank strategies nullifying half your MSU army
- lessening the effectiveness of MSU by daemon armies not being able to flee as a charge reaction
- Inability to hold the watchtower with small units, or take the tower from high-intiative, dangerous units. (Think chaos warriors, witch-elves)

It's hard to give advice on one or two heralds without understanding how you see your army functioning. We have discussed magic lores and effective magic in the stickies, but the usual problem is simply that we don't have enough power dice to justify the second Herald.

Give us an idea of how you expect to play, and we can give you meaningful advice. Reference posts to battle-reports really don't cut it.

-und_ed

Now thats more like it :)

Constructive criticism is always welcome. You posted some questions und_ed which make me think about that set up. Perhaps pure MSU might not be completely workable, but I definitely want to think outside the box and go with as many units as possible. Definitely no massive blocks for bloodletters for me :) (well, maybe one relatively bigger that others) Anyway, thanks for those questions, they do make me think and reevaluate my idea. I do want to have as many units as possible though.

@colonel interesting ideas I have to say. I like the idea with flying loremaster of death, but I would worry about making him BSB with expensive icon taking in account my tendency for him dissapearing during miscasts ha ha :) I will try to write some sort of new approach list then

The one piece of advice I can give you is a small siren-trap unit would be invaluable. Say 11 or 14 daemonettes with the banner of scstasy, plus a cheap Slaaneshi Herald with Siren Song. Hell, you could even run two of these (although you can't reapeat the banner). The ability to dictate where certain enemy units are going is incredibly valuable, and would definately help out considering you need to dog-pile big units for your MSU to work.

Here's a quick riddle-me-this to get you started: What do you do about 17 (or 23) Tzeentch chaos warriors plus a Lord (or even BSB)? The unit plays aggressive, anchoring his battle-line, and out-fights any of your units, even when flanked. The smaller version can be flamered down, if lucky to a manageable size, but the larger one will shrug it off with ease. You can't just ignore it, since to do so would mean not engaging with his entire army, giving him too much freedom.

Your Fiends are possible sacrificial roadblocks to keep him busy all game, but that leaves precious little to occupy the inevitable Khornate marauder horde, not to mention the expected Khornate warrior halderdier block (honestly, why anyone gives them extra hand weapons is beyond me).

bonesaw raised an interesting point - I normally consider at least one spell-breaker essential, but without any big units to get screwed over, it may not be all that necessary.

I must admit the idea has appeal, but I'm struggling to get by the fact that our troops just don't have the kind of high-initiative punch the strategy demands. As an option to consider, multiple units of 5 (maybe 6) flesh hounds could go a long way to making this workable. Their durability should mitigate the moderate Init value.

-und_ed

OK, thinking about it some more, I may have a (sort of) answer.

This is based on the Ld-bombing army I've been using lately, but re-scaled to match the MSU ideals.

Here's a sample 2500-point list (obviously my preferences, modify as preferred...)

Heroes:
Herald of Slaanesh, Siren Song
Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, Spell Breaker (Lore of light)
Herald of Nurgle, Stream of Bile, BSB, Greater Icon of Despair
Masque of Slaanesh

Core:
11 x Daemonettes, Banner, Banner of ecstasy
14 x Plaguebearers, Banner, Standard of Seeping Decay
12 x Bloodletters, banner
14 x bloodletters, banner
5 x Furies
5 x Furies

Special:
5 x Flesh Hounds
5 x Flesh Hounds
5 x Flesh Hounds

Rare:
6 x Flamers
6 x Flamers
1 x Fiend
1 x Fiend

So first how I'd play this, and then how it (hopefully) answers some of the stickier questions I raised earlier. The Nurgle block and the Masque are key, since the despair Icon and the masque combine to answer 8th Ed's biggest kick in the groin to MSU - Steadfast. By dropping enemy Ld by 2 + 1D3, you can hit an enemy unit hard, and break it even through steadfast. The Nurgle block is a BSB-bunker that runs behind your lines, designed to withstand dedicated shooting (T4 and 4+ Regen goes a long way towards this). The high strength of the Nurgle Herald gives good defence against being sniped by crap like Dwellers. The list also has a heavy amount of interference troops (4 dedicated interference units via the furies and fiends, plus two units that can pinch-hit as redirectors if needed, aka the flamers). Add in the control from the siren-trap, and you have the movement phase under control nicely.

The hitting power sits in the Khornate units, who will be doing the heavy lifting. The flamers do double-time as both shooting units and supporting combat units (2 S5 attacks should never be underestimated, even at WS2). The Nurgle unit is actually a reasonable combat block, especially with the breath-weapon, but is really designed to mop up a wounded unit late-game, and should not be risked within the first 3-4 turns.

I chose lore of light for the tzeentch herald since it's fantastic for both bloodletters and flesh hounds, also great on plagueberers, and has nice low-cost spells which suits the Herald since he's only a level 2 caster. An unusual, but really effective alternative would be Lore of heavens, having cheap buffs (not quite as good as light), but also having one buff include a Ld-drop (Iceshard blizzard) which stacks nicely with the mechanics of this list.

So to my questions:
1) Big, dangerous units.
Two options present - you can try isolate them, and get in some flank charges. add in the Ld-debuffing, and you could score a game-winning kill off one big unit. The other options of course is to continually delay it all game - you have 4 cheap sacrificial units that can easily occupy it for the entire game.
2) Steadfast flank-securing units.
Icon of despair, Masque, add in flesh hounds / bloodletters.
3) Refused flanks.
Play a tight game anyway. back off the accepted flank and wheel your refused models to surround, don't engage for first two turns while you position yourself. You have the interference troops to successfully delay him while you bring in your refused units.
4) Cannot flee.
Suck it up. Nothing we do can fix this, so play aggressively enough to make up for it. (note - not engaging, like recommended before, can still be done while playing aggresively. Again, interference troops are key)
5) Watchtower.
Ld-shenanigans are again your friend. The problem is budging elites that will beat you in combat - those you have to hit over and over, dubious at best.

So 4 of five problems with playable answers, one problematic but not completely unwinnable. Make no mistake, this is a tactician's army, and one small mistake will cost you the game. Multiple Elite Units armies will also be nightmarish to face, but not unbeatable.

-und_ed

thank you for the input. I am toying with few different lists now. Unfortunately Masque is banned in most events here, so thats out of question but I reckon it can still work without her.

Funnily enough when I was toying with different list ideas yesterday I was thinking about very similar set up! I am using siren song with my current demon army and I find them great, although I do need to learn to use them bit better yet ;) Will ponder on the list and get back to you guys with a list I will be happy to try.

As for Watchtower- it is almost never played either in friendly games here or in the events we go to, so one problem less to deal with ;)

Heh, the watchtower thing is a big one. That's probably the biggest weakness of the list, so if it's not played in your neck of the woods that makes a huge difference.

Lacking the masque is big, unfortunately. It means you victorious combats are very unlikely to crack opponents, since General + BSB means even with despair they're on a re-rollable 7 to hold. Luring a unit out of BSB+General range would work, but now you're relying on your opponent playing badly, which is always an iffy strategy.

Maybe if you can fit in a second Siren-song? Still not sure...

-und_ed

yes, i will try variation of this list with two slaaneesh heralds. Lets see what I will come up with . Masque is big i agree- whereas its ok to use it for friendly games, in tournaments its banned (often with all special characters in general). I will just have to do without her :)

Saying that two siren songs should be helpful :)

ok, so you got me thinking, and thats dangerous. :P

I put together a MSU....ish list. However, its not pure MSU as I can not figure out how to make a pure MSU list work for DoC in 8th. This list is heavily based on what is popular in lists on this forum so its easier for everyone to substitute there own chages with minimal discomfort. :)

This is also the only way I would ever consider taking an MSU.... but to be honest I still feel its just not competitive enough.

GENERAL
Hearld of Khorne
Firestorm
AoK

Hearld of nurgle
Lvl1
BSB
Slime trail
Stream of Bile
Icon of despair

Hearld of Tzeentch
Master of Sorc (LIFE)
Spell breaker

19 X Bloodletters
FC

28 X Plague Bearers
FC
Icon of Seeping Decay

5 X Furies

5 X Furies

5 X Flesh Hounds

5 X Flesh Hounds

5 X Flesh Hounds

1 X Fiend

1 X Fiend

1 X Blood Crusher

1 X Blood Crusher

5 X Flamers

5 X Flamers

Puts you at 2499. with 14 placements. This is a huge mainly MSU army that still has an answer to horde blocks, monsters, and other deathstar or dangerous units a small unit would be foolish to slam into.

The 19 X Letters (5 X 4) is where your HoK (General) would go and their job is to support your Horde formation of PB's with HoN BSB. THe Hammer and Anvil. Its tried, true, and very very doable. PLus once a unit is in CC with your PB unit it can't escape before your other units slam into their flank and rear and decimate them.

The rest of the army (Minus one unit of flamers) is to unleash choas on the table. With 2 units of furies, 3 units of Hounds, 2 fiends, and 2 crushers all moving at MV 7 or higher it gives you all the agility of a true MSU list with the 5+ Ward SV we enjoy as demons. Not to mention each unit is extrememly dangerous in its own right and will some skillful playing, viable.

The final unit of Flamers is used to protect the HoTz. and yes... with Lore of Life. THis lore allows you to toughen up your tiny units in order to distract your opponent, make them have to pay attention to WAY to many units, AND make them so much more survivable that it allows you to make a mistake or two without having one of your flanks or (Gods forbid) your center from collapseing. REgrowth allows you to keep your hammer and anvil units at full or close to full strength and Thrones will let you throw 5-6 dice to push an important spell thru without having to worry about the infamous Miscast chart. Plus whenever you get a spell off one of your multiple wound units (And with this list you have a ton) gets to heal a wound which helps you a ton AND frustrates your opponent into making a mistake you can exploit. (Hopefully)

anyway, Feel free to add or subtract from this list to your hearts content. I'm just trying to help by showing you what I personally believe would be the only way to have a fighting chance with a MSU themed army.

Hope it helps bud!

-Tremendous

Some nice ideas, Tremendous.

I like the list, but would make three changes - all to playstyle, and not the actual list:

1) play the plaguebearers deep instead of in horde. Their strength lies in resilience more than hitting, so let them play deep and the ranks break steadfast.

2) use Lore of light. It's a fantastic buff lore for bloodlettes and fleshies, and an awesome buff lore for plaguebearers. best of the lot is the el-cheapo boosted version of Pha's protection, which does a great job of protecting your plaguebearer and bloodletter blocks from scary template weapons.

3) Let the HoT run on his own. By running him just behind (or next to) the plaguebearers he still gets a 4+ Lookout Sir, which combined with his 4+ ward makes him pretty survivable, freeing up the second unit of flamers to do what they do best - ruin lives.

-und_ed

ok, thanks for those ideas guys. This is the preliminary list I think about fielding then:

Herald of Slaanesh, Siren Song
Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, wings (Lore of light)
Herald of Nurgle, Stream of Bile, BSB, Greater Icon of Despair


Core:
12 x Daemonettes, Banner, Banner of ecstasy, musician
14 x Plaguebearers, Banner, Standard of Seeping Decay
12 x Bloodletters, musician
14 x bloodletters, musician
5 x Furies
5 x Furies

Special:
5 x Flesh Hounds
5 x Flesh Hounds
5 x Flesh Hounds

Rare:
5 x Flamers
5 x Flamers
1 x Fiend
1 x Fiend
1x bloodcrusher
1x bloodcrusher


now i still need to shave off 23 points for that- one possibility is dropping two musicians and one demon from one of those units. Unfortunately unless i can drop stream of bile i cannot legally field another herald of slaneesh in my army. Unless I take Khorne herald BSB with armour of khorne only, then yes, i can fit it and then drop plaguebearers all together, take second unit of demonettes and then probably i still have few points left. True that BSB block would not be as tough as plaguebearers (albeit less vulnerable to I-based spells that would normally destroy the lot of them probably)

Single bloodcrushers seem to work quite well for character assassination and are quite fast.

Lord Tremendous list sounds like a great fall-back plan for me, although i wouldn't want to copy it completely (would go for lore of light instead of life and I think will still go for wings on herald as it goves him necessary mobility- loss of spell breakers is hard but its doable to play without it)

In response to un_ded's example of WoC unit with BSB- it is a tough one. I suppose i would try to flame them to bit smaller size anc concentrate my magic on them as well. Combine it with road blocks to delay it as long as possible and then when its weaker try to get a combo charge, preferably with buffed up units. Hopefully lure them into forest or a river and then try to win a combat resolution (they wouldn't be stubborn anymore). As for all khornate units- as much redirecting as possible plus again trying to get them in terrain where they wouldnt be stubborn and hopefully making them loose their frenzy (also with minuz 2 LD banner nearby there is a quite good chance at breaking them) . Also i reckon double siren song could create quite a traffic jam if played right.

As far as my list goes- any feedback? What do you like, what you don't like?

Hey man if any of the list I posted helps you please feel free to use it. I like your latest adaptation so please dont think my list was anything more than just my take on what your trying to achieve.

As for how you can come up with 23 more points. Drop 1 flamer. That gives you the 23 points you need plus 12 points to add to any of your infantry models. Hell add a Fury if you want. All for the sacrafice of 1 D6. which shouldn't make or break that list.

-Tremendous

Well, for me the 24 points are easy - drop the 14-strong bloodletter unit down to 12. (When I built the list I posted above, I had 24 points to killl, that's the only reason the unit was 14-strong to start with)

Good luck with it, I'm looking forward to hearing some battle reports. Specifically what does work, what doesn't.

-und_ed

P.S.
You mention double siren-song, but I only see one in your list. Is that a list omission or wishful thinking?

you must have missed that bit mate :)

You could drop the wings from your HoT, and let him walk behind your army. I've never had trouble keeping mine alive, there's always something more pressing that gets targeted. Wings might be more important in this list than my usual, however, since MSU tends to be spread out muych more than a normal, tight battleline.

-und_ed

but would you drop stream of bile to fit other slaneesh herald in? or perhaps drop plaguebearers and nurgle BSB and replace him with khorne bsb? Thats my main dillemma at the moment as double siren song in that army would be awesome. I definitely want to keep wings on herald, mobility is the key!

If I had to choose, I'd pick the second Siren Song. It's the only way I see you splitting up units from BSB-General protection. (I'd also change the Herald to Lore of heavens, for the extra ld-drop, especially since it's such a cheapo spell to cast)

Upon reflection, while I would normally recommend light or beasts, this army spreads out too much and heavens seems a better option.

-und_ed

Ok, thanks for that. i will update you guys after my first battles

Wow, never thought about heaven but in that set up actually looks pretty good. Especially I can see a lot of use for spell that pushes things away as it can easily create traffic jams- seems like a good answer to those harsh khornate hordes for example :)

So thats the latest vision and thats what I am going to start playing with from the next week:

Herald of Slaanesh, torment blade, siren song
Herald of Slaanesh, Siren Song, torment blade
Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, wings (Lore of heaven))
Herald of Khorne, BSB, icon of greater despair, armor of khorne


Core:
12 x Daemonettes, Banner, Banner of ecstasy, musician
14 x bloodletters, champion, musician
12 x daemonettes, musician
12 x bloodletters, musician
5 x Furies
5 x Furies

Special:
5 x Flesh Hounds
5 x Flesh Hounds
5 x Flesh Hounds

Rare:
5 x Flamers
4 x Flamers
1 x Fiend
1 x Fiend
1x bloodcrusher
1x bloodcrusher

I dont think theres anything more that can be done to polish up this DoC MSU list.

Go young one.... go make us proud! :rock:

-Tremendous

will do my best ;)

Greetings!

I am EB's arch enemy and also MSU approach adept :) You might have seen some of our games, especially the last one which is reported in Battle Report section.

I decided to join this forum as I was happy to see that after a few very pessimistic posts about MSU EB received some very sound advice. I also wanted to add some feedback from the point of view of the enemy and the player who actually have played 18 games with his MSU army so far so that I can add some practical to your theoretical.

However, there is a chance we are going to face each other again soon, so I decided with posting my current army list. Thus you could add some more ideas to what has been posted so far. I think it is quite important as the valuable feedback EB got takes into account playing against more traditional, huge blocks armies. Against another MSU army it is completely different story, as I have learned in some of my games.

If you agree to consider some more specific advice for EB before upcoming battle I vow to refrain from reading this topic until we play it :) I will ask EB to let me know what have you decided and will be glad to join the discussion after the game.

Here is my army list:

Archmage, Level 4, Annulian Crystal, Dragonbane Gem (High Magic) – 305
BSB, Dragon Armor, Great Weapon, Shield, Radiant Gem of Hoeth (High Magic) – 169

20 Spearelves, Musician, Standard - 195
20 Spearelves, Musician, Standard – 195
10 Archers, Light Armor, Musician - 125
10 Archers, Light Armor, Musician – 125

10 Swordmasters, Musician - 156
10 Swordmasters, Musician – 156
10 White Lions, Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame - 178
10 White Lions, Musician – 156
5 Dragon Princes, Musician, Drakemaster, Foe Bane - 205
5 Dragon Princes, Musician – 160
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Spears, Musician – 112
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Spears, Musician – 112

Great Eagle - 50
Great Eagle – 50
Great Eagle – 50

Cheers!