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The Daemonic Legion > The Gathering Hordes - Fantasy Army Lists > 2400 points.

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Title: 2400 points.


tor - January 21, 2012 10:43 PM (GMT)
This Is ment to be a tough list, so any tweaks?

GuO, Balesword, Lvl2 and Noxious.

Bsb Nurgle, Banner of despair, stream of bile, slimetrail.
Herald Khorne, armour of Khorne
Herald Tzeench, Master of sorcery (shadow) spellbreaker.

30 Bloodletters, Mus, Icon of endless war.
30 Plaguebearers, Full command, Std of seeping decay.
6 Furies

6 Flamers
1 Bloodcrusher
2 Fiends.

So what do you think? Itīs nothing superoriginal, Iīm toying
with the idea to squeeze In a magic lvl on the nurgle Herald
to increase my chanses on getting Plaguewind.

Slimetrail, and one each from the corechoises would be sacrificed
to make that happen.

tor - January 22, 2012 09:51 PM (GMT)
Tried It against Skaven today, I won dispite playing like an idiot.
Iīm not sure If thatīs good or bad, probably good.

Banner of despair must be the best magic banner In the book and
I also managed to not Horde just because i could. I have also
realised that Pit of slime Is a good spell (warmachines autofails
strengthtests right?)
Him managing to put five wounds on th Doomwhel by walking to
a forest didnīt hurt either :)

brother_maynard - January 23, 2012 03:47 AM (GMT)
Yeah this is a very doctrinally strong list. Barring mishaps from scenarios or the dice it will consistently perform well.

tor - January 27, 2012 10:25 PM (GMT)
Our local tournament are probably going to adapt ETC rules and restriction (damn It)
Going to play against a Daemon army tomorrow and I asked him to bring as filthy a list as possible :)

tor - January 29, 2012 10:51 PM (GMT)
Ended playing against Highelves instead, the game never got interesting because of horrendous dicerolling from his part.

Tried something new today.

GuO exactly the same.

Tzeench herald, the same but Light.
Herald of Khorne armour
Bsb of Khorne, armour, Despair.

30 Bloodletters, mus, std
30 Bloodletters, mus, std of endless war.
30 Plaguebearers, mes, std of seeping decay.

4 Flamers
1 Fiend.

Played against Ogres, no mournefangs.
Ironguts with threecharacters and Dragonhidebanner.
The monster that isnīt a stonehorn and some more stuff.

Dragonhidebanner Is stupid good and I played bad, the match ended
a draw with 50points In his favour, If he hadnīt gotten greedy and just
been content with a 600point victory he could have walked away with the victory
but instead he choosed to make some charges that could have earned him
a massacre but instead costed him the victory.
I know what the biggest flaw with this list Is, to little chaff.
But I still like It because It looks so cool to just put 3 big blocks on the table.

So In the end I think this Is the list Iīm going for, what do you think? Should
I take back my old Nurgle Bsb and wich magig should I use?

bonesaww666 - January 29, 2012 11:28 PM (GMT)
Light actually would be your best Lore so I wouldn't **** with it, helps the 'letters and fixes the PB's glaring weakness. So do you currently have no Nurgle Herald in your PB's? I personally would never run them without, BL's without a Herald can still do a good job if you use the PB's as an anvil an flank charge...
Ogres in the hands of a competent General are a tough foe, so I wouldn't get too torn up over it. What was he running? Do you feel it was mistakes you made cost
you the battle?

tor - January 30, 2012 03:00 PM (GMT)
I played like an ("€%& In the early game, I got stressed because he put six wounds on Big Papa right away.
I thought I bated him by letting me charge my plaguebearers with his deathstar but instead he just ran through them and managed to anhilate two units In one turn...
I donīt understand how I could recover from that blow but I did and was pretty happy with a draw in the end.
Iīm not completly sold on Light yet but It got something I missed before namely reliable Direct damagespells.
So you think I should put back my Nurgleherald? You are probably right, but who do you guys think should be my Bsb?

tor - February 2, 2012 09:32 AM (GMT)
Iīm going to adapt to ETC restrictions, do you guys have some suggestions?
Iīm think Iīm going to keep the Tzeench herald actually, but give him wings and depending on spellsetup keep him back or be more agressive with him.
One good thing Is I will get less reluctant to sacrifice him for the greater good.

LAV-Kitsune- - February 2, 2012 11:09 AM (GMT)
I was thinking that one might actually prefer lvl 1 nurgle wizards instead of tzeentch wizards now. Tzeentch only gets few bolt spells and glean magic, so Nurgle could be viable option for them. You could even go with horrors if you want those bolts, since they would get higher casting value or leave all casting to Great unclean one. You should also drop some basic daemons, so big fiend unit could be pretty nice with those comps. Then you would have 4 good fighting units.

tor - February 2, 2012 02:04 PM (GMT)
GuO Lvl 2, Noxious, Balesword 585

Nurgle Bsb, Despair (This Is actually something Iīm not sure of. Might end up skipping Despair altogether and going with no Bsb)
Nurgle Herald, Stream of Bile, LVL 1
Khorne herald, armour.

28 Bloodletters, Icon of endless war.
21 Bloodletters, Std, mus
28 Plaguebearers, Std of seeping decay, mus.

Furies?!?

8 Fiends 450 Points... Some Flamers max 4 (I have some converted, would like to use em.)

The problem Is points... I need to cut away some dead meat and I canīt see the difference between dead meat and healthy tissue In this list.

LAV-Kitsune- - February 3, 2012 08:31 AM (GMT)
If you get no magical standard, then give the BSB to Khorne herald. You wouldnt want your bsb to die on purple sun / pit. Here is Ld test succeed percents without and with bsb.
10 = 92% 10 = 99.3%
9 = 83% 9 = 97.2%
8 = 72% 8 = 92.3%
7 = 58% 7 = 82.6%
6 = 42% 6 = 66.0%
5 = 28% 5 = 47.9%
4 = 17% 4 = 30.6%
3 = 8.3% 3 = 15.9%
2 = 2.8% 2 = 5.5%
As you can see, it is quite hard to fail tests even with -2 penalties if general and bsb are around. So usually you do need siren song to pull units out of that bubble. Since you do not have it, you could actually save some points by not taking it. For banners defense I would say that it is awesome with Plaguebearers though. They will start hitting most models on 3+ and will be hit on 5+ instead of 3+ when opponent fails their fear tests. Unfortunately comps forbid to make very big units, so you couldnt make deep trains of bearers with this flag and go breaking everything in combat...so I would drop the flag.

If you drop the flag, you could also drop one of your Nurgle heralds and get those flamers or fiends too. Few furies would really do your list some good as you could hunt war machines and redirect big nasties.

tor - February 3, 2012 09:28 AM (GMT)
Stupid restrictions, thank you for the effort, that table though illustrates the big difference -2 can do. 9-7 25%, 7-5 30%.
This takes some serious thinking, been following the other thread on ETC lists and these restrictions forces you to think In different lines.

tor - February 7, 2012 09:55 PM (GMT)
Ended up with:
GUO, Balesword, lvl 2, Noxious
Nurgle BSB, Despair
Tzeench Herald, spellbreaker.

28 Plaguebearers, Full command, Seeping Decay.
28 Bloodletters, mus, Endless war.
5 Furies

4 Flamers
8 Fiends

Ultracompact, pretty fast and pack a punch.

Played against WoC today with 3 Blocks of Warrios, lvl 4 and Bsb on Disk.
Chosen with usual kit, two otther blocks of warriors and semismall unit of Khorne marauders.
He Is a really good player but didnīt get 3+ward and stubborn until turn 3 and was hesitant with his chosen before that turn.
I got the good spells and sort of out magicked him.
He had some really bad luck and I made to many wardsaves, but I played a tight game and massacerd him.

Some notes; 8 Fiends are offcourse good, they are exactly 450 points and that`s maximum sise with ETC restrictions.
There are offcourse many cheaper units that would mess them up anyway, but the only way to Buff them now Is to get a LoC and I like Papa to much.
Papa, despite being slow He Is my favourite Greater and with the right spells he become very versitile.

Unheralded Bloodletters, not the Powerhouse they usually are, but I feel that the ETC restrictions forces you to play In a different way altogether. You canīt just Horde them up and expect to massakre/ grind everything down.
Plaguebearers: Still resiliant, just donīt expect to be able to run them Into any unit and win.

tor - February 21, 2012 09:34 PM (GMT)
Played against Beastmen today, he had a really scary Minobus, 7 Minos. 2 Doombulls, Gorebull Bsb and another hero lvl Mino.
Had to sacrifice Bloodletters to get the charge with Balesword Papa on the unit. Won one combat lost the rest and was eventually killed. I killed nothing In return, he accepted my challenges and made his wardsaves. The rest of his army was mopped up fairly easy. So something like 240 points to him including the 10% discount that Beastmen get with ETC rules.
I feel that i actually got the game where I wanted and knew that It would be a coinflip In Papa vs that unit. Itīs actually kind of ridicoulus that 1500 something points vs 585 points Is a coinflip but thats Daemons folks.
I think that Balesword Is almost mandatory on a GuO because he adds something that the rest of the army lacks, to reliably kill big things.
Tzeench herald without master of sorcery Isnīt that bad, didnīt get Glean magic or Bolt of change. He had wyssans and Savage beast and that would have been nice to Glean on to Papa.

tor - February 24, 2012 02:53 PM (GMT)
Going to play against a "Furgil" type of Dwarf list using this list, any tips? Wount change the list though. So just strategy please :)

tor - March 3, 2012 02:00 PM (GMT)
Havenīt played against Dwarfs yet, had a game against te same Ogreplayer, I played a better game today and the dice were pretty balanced. Ended up with a 600point victory. Papa Nurgle with Balesword Is offcourse awsome against Ogrees.
Managed to steal some of his Buffs with Glean magic. Magic was a little bit so and so In this game. Game against Dwarfs tomorrow.
Itīs going to be interesting to see how I stand up against a gunline.

tor - March 4, 2012 07:13 PM (GMT)
Ok, Dwarfs today. He had a "Furgil" list (2 Big warriorblocks, 1 Hammerers, 5 warmachines, Runelord and Bsb)
Another match with an unlucky oponent, he had forgotten his own dice so he had to borrow mine and the dice hadnīt forgotten who they belongs to. He couldnīt roll anything but ones and missfires.
8 Fiends againts greatweapon dwarfs and no buffmagic Isnīt especially hot. Banner of despair ridiculously good as usual.

tor - March 5, 2012 07:21 PM (GMT)
Played against beastmen again, herdstone two lvl4 and two lvl 1. Dice were pretty even this time.
He outmagicked me and even managed to grind Papa down in the end. Gors with beastbanner and one or two augments/hexes working for them Is unpleasent to say the least.
Working on some othe shenanigans. What about 4x28 Chore Daemons, 8 Fiends, 3 Heralds and some junk for whats left?

tor - March 6, 2012 11:23 PM (GMT)
An interesting game tomorrow, Vampires! Never played against them before (this edition that Is) so this will be a great learning experience. Most afraid of the Vargeist and I better make good use of my Herald before the inevitable end. He says he has a Offensive list so I expect hard as nail characters and a fastpaced game. The game will probably be decided If I get Papa where I want him. The problem Is that the things I like to fight with Is mostly flying. I hope that big Fiend unit Is going to give him some headakes. Any tips are as always welcome.

tor - March 7, 2012 09:49 PM (GMT)
Ok, I used my sameold list against Vampires, he had a Dragonlord with quickblood (Asf) and 4+ward. 6 Vargheists. Terrorgeist and two Vargulfs and to top It of three units of skelletons.
Man that army Is fast! He was aggresive and we got Into combat right away, GUO made mincemeat of Vargesits and Fiends managed to grind down the Terrorgeist.
His Lord got stuck In Bloodletters and had to make a shaky 4+ward against Killingblow but made It. Meanwhile the rest of my army slaughtered the Skeletons. The final showdown came In turn five! GUO Vs Lord on Zombiedragon. First round I get a hit on the foul beast but only one wound and GuO Is down to three wounds left. In my last round the Vampire manage to get the Guo down to 9 wounds, GuO and Dragon strikes simultainiously and kill eachother I roll six stomps the Vampire survives and manages to kill my Herald of Tzeench In his last round.
Still It was a small victory 11-9 just under 400 points.
Nice game and I love Papa more and more, my magic was ok despite just managing one chanell during the whole game. Plaguewind Is superscary against undead :)

Colonel - March 7, 2012 11:39 PM (GMT)
GuO should rock the dragon with the D6 wound balesword! I would issue a challenge and hope to max overkill the dragon and pop the VC lord with combat res. If you have miasma this should be extra easy.

tor - March 8, 2012 09:48 AM (GMT)
Oh, Bloodletters were wipedout so It was only the Zombiedragon and GuO In the combat. I agree that the GuO should have the upperhand, but Itīs not as easy as one might think. The Dragon Is ws4 and still have cloud of flies, so the most probable number of hits Is one and after that one wound Is as probable as six wounds. He did let me cast a bolt of change on His other vampire just to save dice for Miasma...

mad lamb - March 10, 2012 03:01 PM (GMT)
Realy interesting topic to read. Cause I tend to wisit one or two tourneys with ETC AC. Since I'm playing GUO these days it' s gold to read this. Good work and keep us informed. :-)

tor - March 11, 2012 07:24 PM (GMT)
Thanks! Feel free to give your insights and Iīm totally ok If you use this thread to do It.
Maybe I should give some more info on what my experience of this list Is so far.

GuO with Balesword, lvl 2. Noxious vapours. With ETC restrictions on Master of sorcery I feel that this Is the only reliable way to kill monsters without the crippling your Infantry. I miss having a Lvl 4 offcourse but you canīt have everything. Noxius might be a little bit redundant but I would kick my self in the head If he got Heroic killingblowed because I didnīt bring It. Stream of bile would be my other alternative but I feel that 4-5 wounds against t3 doesnīt cut It. Sometimes If the losses for infantry would be to great I just charge him In alone win combat by one and banner of despair does the rest, I offcourse never do this If my BSB Is dead.

Nurgle BSB with Despair, again ETC restrictions make the BSB squishy If you want a magic banner, been toying with the Idea of having the BSB running around outside of the unit, perhaps a Herald of Slaanesh because Of ASF but instead I choose to go for Nurgle because T5 and regen feels so much safer.

Herald of Tzeench, used to give him shadow. ETC restrictions prevents that, but atleast now I might get the best magic missile In the game and with smaller units and Orc players tendency to bring big Trollunits Flaming magic missiles Is pretty useful. Glean Is a cool spell and the low casting value makes It very usefull somtimes. He also survives longer then one might expect but takes some carefull playing.

28 Bloodletters with Icon of endless war. This Is my third cheapest unit and often give It way to much attention. It often dies but allways take a lot of enemies with them.
28 Plaguebearers with std of seeping decay. An underrated unit that only got better with ETC restrictions. Only 5 dice per casting gives you a good chance to dispell Purplesun and Pit. Win most combats and take little less damage In return than Bloodletters and are therefore useful threw the whole game.
Iīve found that enemies are often steadfast and since I donīt want to grind, so I donīt care If I win by 1 or 8 but I do care about that my units are usefull after turn 3.
8 Fiends, this unit really gives my opponent something to think about, the question about splitting them up to 4+4 or 6+2 Is a valid one but I decided that making one breaktest Is better then making two. This Is my grinding unit and Im happy to throw them out on their own on one flank. The obvious drawback Is that It only takes one hex to make them useless Instead if two. 28 attacks grinds down monsters pretty quick to. They are a really good cannonshield for Papa to.
4 Flamers, 8 Fiends are really expensive and 4 Flamers are not that bad. As my second cheapest unit they can be sacrificed for the greater good If nessecary. To many people got characters On flying mounts with 2+ against flaming anyway.

The bad... Crappy magicdefense. Lvl 2 and one scroll just doesnīt cut It, but I just donīt see anything I would like to do to get a lvl 4 Into the list.
Instead I have to accept that some spells will get through and plan accordingly.
Not enough crap/redirectors. Well, this Is true but between Flamers and my magicphase my oponent often havenīt got any crap/redirectors either so one unit of Furies Is arguably one to few but many times enough.

mad lamb - March 17, 2012 11:46 AM (GMT)
double post <_<

mad lamb - March 17, 2012 11:47 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
GuO with Balesword, lvl 2. Noxious vapours. With ETC restrictions on Master of sorcery I feel that this Is the only reliable way to kill monsters without the crippling your Infantry. I miss having a Lvl 4 offcourse but you canīt have everything. Noxius might be a little bit redundant but I would kick my self in the head If he got Heroic killingblowed because I didnīt bring It.


Yes. I'm feeling to that in lack of powermagic and Thirster or "perhaps crushers" Balesword is the only way to ge in dealing with monsters. I Also thought to kick out Noxious but hitting first is hitting first. :lol:

QUOTE
Stream of bile would be my other alternative but I feel that 4-5 wounds against t3 doesnīt cut It. Sometimes If the losses for infantry would be to great I just charge him In alone win combat by one and banner of despair does the rest, I offcourse never do this If my BSB Is dead.

Nurgle BSB with Despair, again ETC restrictions make the BSB squishy If you want a magic banner, been toying with the Idea of having the BSB running around outside of the unit, perhaps a Herald of Slaanesh because Of ASF but instead I choose to go for Nurgle because T5 and regen feels so much safer.


I always run stream on HoN. It's a usefull thing and people, oddly, don't expect it. So a little breathattack is handy.

What I don't like is magic banner or gifts.
Our heralds are squisshy. I've been playing with HoT with stubborn banner in 10 strong horror bunker with Musicina and standard. It places him in 2nd rank and protects him more.
But that's lots of non-usable combat point that are sitting most of the time. Right now terrorgheists are increasin problems case they can fly close and scream on that unit. WS4++ isnt something you can't fail.

So I've been thinking for HoN cause he has T5 and regen or HoK on jugger If I switch on crushers.

My main concern in ETC based list is how to protect bloody expencive BSB with T3-4 no AS and 5+ WS. If it is HoK he'll get into CC and die. If it's HoN he'll also get in CC and maybe die. If its HoT he needs 137 pts bunker not to die and total account goes to 137+25+265+100 if they all die :blink:



QUOTE

28 Bloodletters with Icon of endless war. This Is my third cheapest unit and often give It way to much attention. It often dies but allways take a lot of enemies with them.
28 Plaguebearers with std of seeping decay. An underrated unit that only got better with ETC restrictions.

Iīve found that enemies are often steadfast and since I donīt want to grind, so I donīt care If I win by 1 or 8 but I do care about that my units are usefull after turn 3.


Yes. With 0-3 HoK-Letters restriction I'm trying 28 storng FC Letters and 25-28 Strong Plagues with magic banners. Same as you.
I think it's the only way to go. I usualy place HoK with AoK and Fire'blade and HoN with Stream and Norear-flank.

My main issue is how to place in second unit, strong unit, of letters.

I've always played nettes with exctasy and HoS with siren but now it's gone. So letters+plagues are IMHO only way to go.


QUOTE
8 Fiends, this unit really gives my opponent something to think about, the question about splitting them up to 4+4 or 6+2 Is a valid one but I decided that making one breaktest Is better then making two. This Is my grinding unit and Im happy to throw them out on their own on one flank. The obvious drawback Is that It only takes one hex to make them useless Instead if two. 28 attacks grinds down monsters pretty quick to. They are a really good cannonshield for Papa to.
4 Flamers, 8 Fiends are really expensive and 4 Flamers are not that bad. As my second cheapest unit they can be sacrificed for the greater good If nessecary. To many people got characters On flying mounts with 2+ against flaming anyway.


W'll this is where I dont know where to go. 8 fiends withot light or shadow or beast are "if" in my case cause they tend to miss a lott with WS4 and S4 in my games.
On the other hand they'll deflect lots of shooting from papa and letters.

But only 4 flamers are IMHO not enough. 6 or 5 at least. I felt lack of 6th flamer when I play only 5. With 4 they are not as near effective.


I'm having some ideas about 3 units of furies+2 fiends for quick attack. For ETC they can produce lots of redirecting, chaff hunting and mage hunting. But that's a lots of points that can't realy kill something.

Son now I'm thinking about "thirster+2/3x10 furies" for flying circus? With stubborn banner on BsB. Maybe even flying one.
Thoughts?

ereinion - March 18, 2012 07:03 AM (GMT)
Hey,

This is a great read and much help to me at the moment :].

Jumping back onto my daemons for the forseeable future due to up and coming tournaments and not enough time to finish my WOC army that i have been playing to death.

I dont have huge amounts of experience with my daemons yet and what i do have doesnt include the use of a greater daemon.

The GUO is my favourite, nurgle always has been. But i have been looking at the thirster for the up coming tournaments as seems to be the ultimatre choice and i want to be able to compete!! all this talk is making me want to go for the GUO though.

I have also been looking at the fiends unit, and cant decide on them at all.
I was looking at a unit of 5 and a single for the usual.
I cant fit 6 in the big unit but dont want to give up the single.

Also, on the tzeentch lvl2, i have always run light before, but i was running herald style list, with 3 blocks, 1 nurgle, 1 khorne and 1 slaanesh. the spells really helped the army, but thinking shadow is so good when running the fiend block and the thirster, plus the damage spells are helpful.

Look forward to more up-dates, and if you can help me at all would be much appreciated. hope you dont mind me asking!!

tor - March 18, 2012 08:06 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (mad lamb @ Mar 17 2012, 06:47 AM)
What I don't like is magic banner or gifts.
Our heralds are squisshy. I've been playing with HoT with stubborn banner in 10 strong horror bunker with Musicina and standard. It places him in 2nd rank and protects him more.
But that's lots of non-usable combat point that are sitting most of the time.





I have never tried that, have It worked out for you?

I would have runned shadow, light and beast in the Tzeerald but It wasnīt allowed In the first ETC draft.
What do you think Is It worth 25points to get acces to the basic lores and wich lore would you use? Beast perhaps, I think that Wyssans Is awsome and perhaps that spell alone Is worth It? A little short ranged offcourse.
Shadow Is great Its no coincidense that ETC have restricted that particular lore. Only one bad spell and the rest Is golden.
Wellcome to the even Darke side Erenion, a Thirster Is great but I get to nervous when the cannonballs starts buzzing around him so Itīs better for my bloodpressaure to have ten wounds :)
Check out Brother Maynards videoreps, he have a very sound reasoning for everything he does and he also plays around with a GuO but seems to prefer a different setup than me.

I might be able to squueze In a game against my Ogrebuddy tomorrow. Im going to tinker around with the list and the second etc draft untill then.

tor - March 19, 2012 04:32 PM (GMT)
Ok, game against Ogres today. New ETC draft and I made some minor changes.

GuO Lvl 2, Balesword, Noxious.
Nurgle Bsb, Despair, Lvl1
Tzeench herald, master of sorcery Heavens. I decided for Heavens because of the awsome defaultspell, Beast Is my sekond choise but Wyssans high casting value on the Boosted version tipped the scale against Heavens instead. Roled double on so I went for Comet and Iceshard blizzard.

29 Plaguebearers, Mus, Std of seeping decay.
28 Bloodletters, mus, Icon of endless war.
5 Furies

4 Flamers
8 Fiends

I wanted to play a little more defensive this time and grind him down before engaging him and perhaps stress him to doing some misstakes. What happend was that while I got some Comets through he grinded GuO standing behind Fiends with superaccurate shots from the Ironblaster (I hate that thing).

Highligts was breaking a big block of Ironguts with only Bloodletters and Iceshardblizzard In effect.

Lowlights (Is that a word?) was not catching them (stupid coinflip situation, cant think of a better system but Its so important that a coinflip feels a little unfair)
Not killing his Thundertusk with just on wound left despite having 6 Fiends attacking It.
So? Any good suggestions? Is the ETC version of MoS worth It? Should I perhaps go for Bloodletters times two instead and swap Nurgle BsB for Khorne Bsb and no Despair?

Colonel - March 19, 2012 10:33 PM (GMT)
Not pushing a GUO with balesword straight into combat with ogres is nuts IMO.

tor - March 19, 2012 10:39 PM (GMT)
Yeah, but a unit of Ironguts with Dragonhidebanner can and have killed him in one round of combat. But you are right he should be In combat asap. But you canīt just sit him infront of anything and expect him to survive.
Obviously todays tactic didnīt work and I ended up loosing by 200 points.

brother_maynard - March 19, 2012 11:50 PM (GMT)
figured i'd post my thoughts since we're both going through the ETC tribulation right now :P

QUOTE
GuO Lvl 2, Balesword, Noxious

i'm taking this build to an ETC tourney at the end of the month, i really think he'll shine. the restrictions on magic and WM is pretty much going to turn ETC into monsterhammer (at least that's what i see in my Brother_Maynardamus crystal ball). he should do quite well vs heavy TK and ogre contingent i expect to see.

QUOTE
Nurgle Bsb, Despair, Lvl1

solid, i like the magic level, it should go a long way to protect considering the gift/BSB situation

QUOTE
Tzeench herald, master of sorcery Heavens. I decided for Heavens because of the awsome defaultspell, Beast Is my sekond choise but Wyssans high casting value on the Boosted version tipped the scale against Heavens instead. Roled double on so I went for Comet and Iceshard blizzard.

interesting choice, especially with the LD banner. i personally prefer the tzeentch lore over the change to MoS, but i like your method of choosing lore based on sig spell.

QUOTE
29 Plaguebearers, Mus, Std of seeping decay.
28 Bloodletters, mus, Icon of endless war.
5 Furies

clearly solid

QUOTE
4 Flamers
8 Fiends

i prefer a lot more rare units, i don't feel i need another hammer in addition to the 2 core units and the greater. how have they been working for you? i'm thinking of running a list very close to this but with a level 4 keeper, since her magic might be half decent with PB in core and a fiend hammer (plus the LD icon). wouldn't succour be murderous on PB's?

QUOTE
I wanted to play a little more defensive this time and grind him down before engaging him and perhaps stress him to doing some misstakes. What happend was that while I got some Comets through he grinded GuO standing behind Fiends with superaccurate shots from the Ironblaster (I hate that thing).
to be honest, i think this would have been a better call with a level 4 GD since casting is the only thing that forces the enemy to close to us. i HATE ironblasters as well (oddly enought the keeper doesn't mind them though :evil: )

QUOTE
Highligts was breaking a big block of Ironguts with only Bloodletters and Iceshardblizzard In effect.
heh heh, love killing the fatties!

QUOTE
Lowlights (Is that a word?) was not catching them (stupid coinflip situation, cant think of a better system but Its so important that a coinflip feels a little unfair)
Not killing his Thundertusk with just on wound left despite having 6 Fiends attacking It.
it happens lol. i'm not sure if you've seen it but in my game vs the stupid knight bus, it took me 2 rounds of pursuing to catch a disc sorceror (still didn't get him) and 2 rounds to catch a stupid warrior unit. its frustrating enough but its awful when fiends are involved in the combats so you should be catching stuff.

QUOTE
So? Any good suggestions? Is the ETC version of MoS worth It?
like i said, i don't like it. master of sorcery (the old version) is a deal because it balances the fact that our wizards can only join one unit in competitive lists, can't flee, and are limited to 2 other useful gifts. the new version isn't worth the 25 extra pts, if i want a 50/50 chance at rolling good spells, i'll take the tzeentch lore, thanks.

QUOTE
I perhaps go for Bloodletters times two instead and swap Nurgle BsB for Khorne Bsb and no Despair?
NO! then you'll have my ETC army! lol, this sucks, there is no flexibility, the only variation between lists is the rare section and the greater. double letters is nice but i'm toying with running the LD banner on them anyway. he'll be squishy but only one letter horde sees serious fighting, the other usually just supports. i'm also considering dropping gifts on the HoT and giving him a flag, despair or maybe sundering since light spam wasn't comped at all (but death and shadow were? :blink: ). with only 4-5 dice to throw at critical spells, the banner may actually be better than a scroll and other kit. they'll have a harder time getting the big ones off with the flag and you can still throw however many you want at it, the -2 making it harder for them and easier for us.

i've still yet to finalize mylist for the tourney this weekend, i'll pop into this thread later for more ideas.

QUOTE
Yeah, but a unit of Ironguts with Dragonhidebanner can and have killed him in one round of combat.
that blows, i love seeing the banner on mournfangs, because its much better on guts imo.

QUOTE
But you are right he should be In combat asap. But you canīt just sit him infront of anything and expect him to survive.
Obviously todays tactic didnīt work and I ended up loosing by 200 points.
live and learn eh? i think unless you have the level 4, there's really no reason to take your time, especially when ironblasters are around (but you know that :D )


ereinion - March 20, 2012 03:03 AM (GMT)
Hey, thanks, looking forward to getting them back on the table.
Enjoyed using them before jumping onto my warriors, but no with the sudden change required i dont have much practice time!!

I know what you mean about the thirster and being a target (cannons etc), that was why i did 4 herald list before. But i want to run a big guy now, and also its less to finish painting in the small time i have before next tournament :].

As i said, i really do want to run the GUO, my favourite by a long shot but not sure in the open tournament scene if i would be good enough to use him without the speed/manouverabilty (spelling!!) that the others give. I suppose having a few re-directors etc can help that.

I will put up my considered lists in a new thread, and if you and any of the other experienced guys can help with general thoughts and ideas i would appreciate it.

Adding some of my thoughts to your latest game posts, and maybe more imprtantly my questions which may help your thoughts:

Running the GUO, as i pretty much just said for my list, is it not more important to have a few cheap re-directing units to guarantee him getting where u want?
Also protects him from potential annoying units blocking him as well does it not?

On the BSB, i have never run mine without the slime trail and almost always take stream of bile. Find these to add so much to the units ability to do what its there for and makes killing that unit in front of you potentially happen quicker ig you roll well. But i have never taken a banner or the magic level because i feel it adds to many points to a character that isnt armoured and can die quite easy!!
I do like the idea of the magic level. How do you find that helps?

I have only ever run Light in my last list, found it very useful. All i can see at the moment with my list is shadow, but will explain that more when i get my thread up.

Your 2 core are my favourite setup. i love nurgle as i said, but also having the extra toughness and then re-rolls to wound makes them able to kill to. Thats another reason i think shadow might be good, to add to them if needed for killing power. Is this thinking sensibly?

On the fiends, to me 8 seems to many? i could be completely wrong, but 6 seems a solid number and this would open up points for use else where whilst still having a decent unit size with lots of attacks still.

I dont know how much of this is relevant or helpful, but hoope some could be of help to you.

The other thing i have been considering but i am not sure if it is stupid or not, is not running the block of fiends.
For the points you can have 2 x 5 fiends, 2 x single fiends and 2 x single crusher champs. all that gives potential killing power if combi charging, lots of re-directing and support for your main fighting units.

Have you tried this at all, as i havnt, just in thinking this last week.

tor - March 20, 2012 09:52 AM (GMT)
Two great responses! It just hurt my eyes when I see myself quoted. My spelling Is awfull :P
The magic lvl on the Bsb Is there for Miasma to help my single most important figure survive and offcourse to increase to chance to get Plaguewind.
The whole Idea with 8 Fiends was trying something different, to be honest without supporting magic theyīre not that hot. I mean Itīs a great unit but not that great. I think Iīm going to skip two and get a Jugger and another Flamer instead. A friend of mine used two fours and Lifemagic caster and won an 80man tournament. He said that Fiends were allmost allways the man of the match.
Succour on Plaguebearers would be a thing of divine beauty :)

tor - March 20, 2012 10:27 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
GuO Lvl 2, Balesword, Noxious

i'm taking this build to an ETC tourney at the end of the month, i really think he'll shine. the restrictions on magic and WM is pretty much going to turn ETC into monsterhammer (at least that's what i see in my Brother_Maynardamus crystal ball). he should do quite well vs heavy TK and ogre contingent i expect to see

Agree and besides we have the tools to deal with infantry anyway.

QUOTE
Nurgle Bsb, Despair, Lvl1

solid, i like the magic level, it should go a long way to protect considering the gift/BSB situation

Yes It does, Itīs a gutsy move If you go for the Khorne bsb. I hope It works out for you.

QUOTE
Tzeench herald, master of sorcery Heavens. I decided for Heavens because of the awsome defaultspell, Beast Is my sekond choise but Wyssans high casting value on the Boosted version tipped the scale against Heavens instead. Roled double on so I went for Comet and Iceshard blizzard.

interesting choice, especially with the LD banner. i personally prefer the tzeentch lore over the change to MoS, but i like your method of choosing lore based on sig spell.

It Is a great sig spell donīt you think? Tzeench Is a great lore though I just wish that It had some buffs or Hexes besides the occasional Glean magic.

Regarding the tactics against the Ogreplayer, he and I are friends and Heīs the one that I play against the most games and It gets a little dull to allways do the same thing. This time I tried something else and It didnīt work out so good. To be honest thats a more important lesson then just doing the same old thing isnīt It? Ogres Is so much better now and we allmost allways have close games now as before he selldom had had chance.
Agree on Dragonhide on Ironguts and characters, he doesnīt get the reroll on the bannersflaming atack and stomps though?

brother_maynard - March 20, 2012 12:47 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (tor)
Yes It does, Itīs a gutsy move If you go for the Khorne bsb. I hope It works out for you
. my thinking is that the despair icon is most useful when actively winning combats and making the enemy test so it is very effective in aggressive lists. hopefully i can use copious reforms and challenges to keep him out of harm's way, we'll see.


QUOTE (tor)
Regarding the tactics against the Ogreplayer, he and I are friends and Heīs the one that I play against the most games and It gets a little dull to allways do the same thing. This time I tried something else and It didnīt work out so good. To be honest thats a more important lesson then just doing the same old thing isnīt It? Ogres Is so much better now and we allmost allways have close games now as before he selldom had had chance.
quite right, there's no point in doing the same thing every time, especially if it works. the only way you find more tools for your toolbox is trying stuff out! they are a tough army though, i have to admit, i do love the fact that the ogres are rocking the game to its core lol. a win against a good ogre player is just as well deserved as a win against a good daemon player imo.

QUOTE (tor)
Agree on Dragonhide on Ironguts and characters, he doesnīt get the reroll on the banners flaming atack and stomps though?
BRB FAQ is pretty clear, breath weapons and stomps do not benefit from special rules, equipment or magic items, so no.

QUOTE (ereinion)
Running the GUO, as i pretty much just said for my list, is it not more important to have a few cheap re-directing units to guarantee him getting where u want?
Also protects him from potential annoying units blocking him as well does it not?
its generally very difficult to block him effectively because he's only on a 50mmx50mm and gets free pivots, and LD 9 means he's rarely march blocked. also, if the opponent drops a single model redirector in front of him, you can charge the redirector and place your GUO corner-to-corner. this might give you some overruns that your opponent didn't see. and of course if he's block trying to your greater, he's not redirecting your blocks which has its own implications.

QUOTE (ereinion)
On the BSB, i have never run mine without the slime trail and almost always take stream of bile. Find these to add so much to the units ability to do what its there for and makes killing that unit in front of you potentially happen quicker ig you roll well. But i have never taken a banner or the magic level because i feel it adds to many points to a character that isnt armoured and can die quite easy!!
I do like the idea of the magic level. How do you find that helps?

the sig spell makes it very dangerous for any characters to be in b2b with him and it really reduces the damage output of enemy units, especially the kind that would worry a T5 4+ save character. you should consider taking some of our banners in the future, they are truly hideous.

QUOTE (ereinion)
On the fiends, to me 8 seems to many? i could be completely wrong, but 6 seems a solid number and this would open up points for use else where whilst still having a decent unit size with lots of attacks still.
8 is a good unit that scales incredibly well with all kinds of magic buffs. unfortunately the ETC resriction on master of sorcery really hurts the fiend hammer, i would drop it for the time being.

tor - March 20, 2012 02:54 PM (GMT)
8 is a good unit that scales incredibly well with all kinds of magic buffs. unfortunately the ETC resriction on master of sorcery really hurts the fiend hammer, i would drop it for the time being.

Might give this list another chance, will try out beast this time. I have a painted Chimera that I would like to use, that Is reason enough. Casting Wyssans on 12+ on Fiends Isnīt that bad.
Is there a ruling on Curse of Anraheir and what terrain Is?

tor - March 21, 2012 06:23 PM (GMT)
Ok, Interresting game coming up this Saturday. A quality player with some tournament winns playing Tombkings. I have only played against him once before and then I lost. We were both quite drunk and rumour has It that Alcohol only makes him better, this time we will both be sober so maybe that will tip the scale In my favour.
His list:
lvl 4a, nekahara
lvl 2a light,
1 king ,death mask, greatweapon 5+ ward chariot
1 bsb chariot ,raise banner,
30 archers
9 chariots
6 necropolis knights
1 warsphinx
1 necrosphinx
2 catapults
Casket

Hopefully GuO will do his thing, I have watched Brother Maynards battlereport but I will hopefully get a different result. Havenīt played against Tombkings since 2004 so this will be interresting.

tor - March 24, 2012 04:47 PM (GMT)
Ok, played against Tombkings today, his list didnīt look exactly like the list he had posted.
He had: lvl 4, nekahara
lvl 2 light,
1 king ,death mask, greatweapon 5+ ward
30 Skeletons
30 archers
6 chariots
6 necropolis knights
1 warsphinx
2 necrosphinx
Casket

My list lookes a little different, iīve removed 2 Fiends added one Flames and a single crusher.
My wardsaves were one fire and i managed to Crushersnipe his Hierofant round 4. So a 1368 point victory.
One might think that Balesword GuO would have shined this match but this guy knows how to play and I couldnīt catch his flying monsters. Skeletons really sucks against Daemons and even If he had two augments inplay still were lackluster.

Played against one of the youngest guys In the club, he told me beforehand that he never have won a match...
He played with Highelves and a Dragon. I was nice and reminded him when he forgot things or did something obviously bad for him, but I still wouldnīt let him get away to easy, so in the end he had 15 Spearmen, his lord on Dragon and 2 swordmasters left.
I actually reminded him to move his Dragon out of the way of the GuOs chargearc :)

This list feels really solid and beast feals like a lore with great synergy with the list. Just tinkering with the idea of going with sundering, light Is nasty and the matches Iīve lost have been because of magic. Still Despair Is just so good... Hmm decisions.

brother_maynard - March 24, 2012 05:54 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (tor @ Mar 24 2012, 11:47 AM)

good to hear that you got the TK player. unlike und_ed's disdain for the army, i've always had a tough time with them. the local TK players are really good and playing against them in ETC is not as easy a win as i'd like to think.

some thoughts about this comment-

QUOTE (tor)
One might think that Balesword GuO would have shined this match but this guy knows how to play and I couldnīt catch his flying monsters.


this is one reason why i'm considering using a level 4 GUO instead of the balesword. a good player will keep you from running amok with it, and in that case its better to have the extra magic levels. plus it will be easier to stop smiting on the catapults with a level 4.

not sure though... i do love the balesword but after i started playing with 4 magic levels on the GUO, i feel naked without them.




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