Warjack Attack Questions., Rules clarification

1. Opponent used the Mangler's ball and chain weapon. I accept, (going by the card), that the Mangler basically takes a mighty swing, spins on its axis, and whacks everything within 2 inches of it, in a full 360 degree arc. Opponent's interpretation was that the 'free strike' meant it got to do it TWICE. Not so sure about that....

2. A Slayer managed to make a Slam attack against a Vanguard. Ashlynne and Rheinholdt were behind the Vanguard, but in 'echelon' rather than directly behind it. Opponent argued that going by the rules, as they were not DIRECTLY behind the Vanguard, it basically whizzed past between them, being smaller bases none of them got so much as a scratch. Izzatso?

3. A rather more unfortunate Slayer found itself face-to-face with a Vanguard, and a Renegade round the back. This went on for a couple of turns, but the Slayer managed to retain use of one arm. The Renegade spotted a juicier target, and disengaged from the Slayer. Would the Slayer have been entitled to a Free strike?

4. We are getting VERY fond of Renegades, but we must make sure we have got it right. Renegade makes a melee attack with the chainsaw thingie. It succeeds in its MAT attack, rolls for damage. Roll exceeds defender's ARM, defender takes damage. Having inflicted damage, Renegade AUTOMATICALLY makes another attack. Rolls MAT versus DEF again, if it succeeds, rolls Damage versus ARM. If it inflicts damage AGAIN, then the process continues. This carnage only stops when either the target is dead, dead, dead, very dead, or Renegade's damage roll is less than target's armour, so no damage is inflicted. If this is correct then we are somewhat puzzled why anyone would bother taking any other warjack!

Hi Ian

1. A Circular strike is a Special Attack (I think it says *attack on the cards), meaning it's instead of a model's initial attacks, so the Mangler would have to spend Focus for any additional attacks it wanted to make after that.

2. Even if only a wee tiny slither of the bases crossed then Ashlyn and Rheinholdt would suffer slam damage and be knocked down.

3. If the Renegade was in the Slayer's melee range (so within half an inch of the front 180 degrees of the Slayer's base) then you'd get to make a free strike with a weapon of your choice. If the Slayer still had both arms intact he would not be able to make a combo strike as a free strike though, as a combo strike is a special attack.

4. Yep you're right about the Renegade, you only stop attacking if you miss or fail to do damage with an attack. It can be outrageous in the right circumstances, you can even automatically kill models on certain occassions - like if a model is knocked down and the armour is low enough (perhaps by using Parasite and/or Gorman's rust bomb?).

Hope this helps!

Sean.

This post has been edited by ScotlandNil on 5th Nov 2009, 08:39 PM

Cannot make a free strike against the models threshered as they never leave the 180 degree front arc (the spins on its axis thing is not part of the rule. more of a fluff thing) also i think the thresher attack is only the front arc in Mk2 (if thats what you are using). Not sure about Mk1 as have not used it since the field test for Mk2 was released.

This post has been edited by tugmyster on 4th Nov 2009, 05:23 PM

Scotlandnil has it right Ian.

It seems your opponent got mixed up with slam and throws on number 2.

Slight clarification: during a free strike the free-striking model makes a basic melee attack. That's a normal swing with a melee weapon (with the free strike bonuses applied). Combo strike is a special attack and can only be made during a model's activation as it replaces your initial attacks.

Slight clarification: during a free strike the free-striking model makes a basic melee attack. That's a normal swing with a melee weapon (with the free strike bonuses applied). Combo strike is a special attack and can only be made during a model's activation as it replaces your initial attacks.

That's what I meant, I just worded it poorly!

Thankee' kindly. The problem with the Slayer was that the Renegade was in its rear arc. So, quite legit for the Renegade to sneak off and hit something else. I know having only one functioning arm precludes combo strikes, but it was doing such a nice job on the Vanguard as it is, (but then the Vanguard was in turn doing its job keeping my Slayer occupied till the Renegade could engage).

Zo...the game might have ended differently if I had insisted that the other Vanguard had indeed 'clipped' Ashlynne and Reinholdt. Quite. Though instead of a Slam, a less contentious tactic would have been for the Slayer to THROW the Vanguard at Ashlynne. I think what stopped me is that somewhere it says that you cannot Charge AND do Power attacks, and whaddya know? The Vanguard was not in Advance range.

Zo...we have got it right with regard to the Renegade's chainsaw? Ok, back to my original question. WHY would you want to play with anything else? (Oh yeah - Mk II). As for debuffing the opponent. Parasite from Asphyxious; Rust from Gorman, all well and good. How about in a 1000 point game, swap Asphyxious for Deneghra, and just as Magnus' Renegades reach the opposition, Deneghra pops her Feat?

Though I shall be bringing my Cryx chaps, we have found with the Mercs that teaming the Renegades with Talons works rather well. Talon Stalls 'Jack. Renegade charges in, not nice. On this occasion a Vanguard was handier, but Talons, (cards not to hand so I'm winging this), are a tad cheaper.

The Mangler's swing is a 'special' attack? So does that mean it cannot attack with the other arm, (the one with the spike) IN ADDITION TO? Also, that arm is classed as an 'open hand'. Surely that means the Mangler could grasp a target, such as another Warjack, (being a POWER Attack that would require the expenditure of a Focus point), then swing that ball and chain with obvious consequences. Trying to visualise it, the hapless target would be squirming away in the Mangler's left hand, while with its right arm the Mangler swings that ball in an overhead strike to bring the ball DOWN.

Yes, I see that in Mk II that both the Mangler and the Renegades have been downgraded. Pity I don't have enough Mercs to do a 750 point army, but mayhap, (if I'm not back at sea by then), when the 1000 pointer comes round a Cryx/Magnus list may take the field.

Ne'er mind see y'all on Sunday. However crushing, the defeats I will endure will be comfortably exceeded by the fun I shall have.

Yup, ONE of the defeats was indeed crushing. When I got home I had to page-by-page every rule book to find TRAMPLE, but eventually found it. Yes, very useful.

Ne'er mind. As I said in the last post, it was immense fun. Time to start boning up on MkII.

Trample is AWSOME in the right circumstances! Although it can be fatal to your jack so make sure they can ignore free stikes or have a good chance of killing everything/surviving the retaliation. Cryx have nice ways to make a trample ever nicer (ghostly warjacks and generally high MAT as well as all the debuffs).
I really wish Mortenebra's "Terminal Velocity" let you trample for free!

As for your Mangler grabbing/smashing I'm afraid it doesn't work. Power attacks (lock/grab) are special attacks, as is the ball swing so you can't do both in one turn. You can however make a grab/lock the turn before and if by your next turn the opponant is still locked you can then make the swing.

Also, if you do a special attack you lose all of your initial attacks, so the mangler doesn't get his extra punch in. You can however, spend focus points to make additional attacks after your special attack, although why you would chose the fist over the wrecker for this is lost to me.

Yup, thanks for all feedback. Now for other questions (new topic time).