Title: Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Description: Rules question
IAN LACEY - November 10, 2009 12:21 PM (GMT)
All the fluff for Cryx place emphasis on their predeliction for 'playing dirty'. FINALLY may be sussing this out, viz:
About the only decent RAT troops Cryx has, I would be very reluctant to field a force without them. One notes that if they shoot a living model then they get a token. Unlike most soul or corpse tokens, it appears that they are not forfeited in the next turn. The Pistol Wraith can use a token to boost a RAT or DAMage roll. Really? Well they would be handy to have to hand when a high value target is in range, (a particularly troublesome warjack, or maybe even a warcaster).
I cannot count on my opponent to have any living units, or let them get in range of the Pistol Wraiths, so could I get a unit of Satyxis, Croe's Cutthroats, or Steelhead Halberdiers to tag along with them? Come the turn, the Pistol Wraiths take shots, (preferably back shots) at the unit, grab the tokens, and are thus suitably buffed. This is slightly less insane if the target unit is full-strength so I don't gift the VPs to my opponent, and not so expensive that I am wasting points.
Again making use of the living.
Some of the Warcasters get soul/corpse tokens for killing living models. Again with reference to those eligible units could a Warcaster 'tap' some living models to get those tokens? Someone like Asphyxious could demonstrate his ingratitude for their screening him, by moving into range, killing a few with back strikes, or getting the Pistol Wraiths to go a bit 'Kommissar' and doing his dirty work for him. Presumably a particularly hapless model executed by a Pistol Wraith within the catchment area of a warcaster would only be of benefit to one or t'other.
Well things could get sneakier still. Say a necro-surgeon was within range of the executed model? Having benefitted the Pistol Wraith, and/or the Warcaster, could the Necro-surgeon transform them into a mechanithrall? Recycling; Cryx style.
BlasterBonatti - November 10, 2009 01:43 PM (GMT)
Each model only produces one of each counter, so you couldn't get one soul for gaspy and one soul the pistol wraith, just whichever is closest. You can however gain a corpse counter for your Necrosurgeon from the same dead model. Don't use a Necrosurgeon in Mk1 though, they're rubbish and really slow down your McThralls (which should be legging it towards the enemy). In Mk2 though they're units, not UA's. Much, much better! Plus they can heal stuff! Love Mk2 Necrosurgeons.
It's not unheard of for Cryx to kill their own models for soul tokens, however you are sacrificing a substantial amount of your army so make sure you use the souls well. A pistol Wraith with 3 souls is still as easy to kill vs a canny opponent! Also remember for Gaspy that when souls turn into focus you then lose them on your next turn if you don't use them so getting the timing right for such a ploy is crucial. TBH I usually don't count on wraiths getting souls, I just use them in tandem to death chill a 'jack or something equally substantial, thereby rendering it almost useless for a turn.
eSkarre's black spot is great fun with pistol wraiths vs units though! 8 effective RAT 9 shots! Boo ya!
frazerpenman - November 10, 2009 02:36 PM (GMT)
If your looking to take models just for their souls steelheads are your best option as their cheap. Hell I've heard of folks running 30 steelheads and having Gaspy cast breath of corruption and having all of them run into the cloud and die, giving him potentially 44 focus to use next turn. Unfortunately when you do this your opponent will avoid him at all costs or just go for the kill. Personally I'm reluctant to kill my own models in this way, though it is mighty tempting to be able to do wraith shots with the harrower in the early turns. Though all of this discussion will be mute and void soon as in mk2 you can only claim enemy souls.
BlasterBonatti - November 11, 2009 11:22 AM (GMT)
Can you? What about Skorne! I suppose it'll be in their rules. why you'd want to buy 30 steelheads just to do that is mental. I wouldn't let them proxy for that!
frazerpenman - November 11, 2009 11:04 PM (GMT)
I'd imagine Skorne will only be able to claim souls from models killed by the enemy models like the high reclaimer soon. At present you can kill your own guys to fuel the ancestral guardians though you max out at needing 10 swordsman or 15 with zaal though skorne don't have the instant death cloud options of Cryx so could be harder to do. I'd let them proxy that many steelheads and go forth, though I would field zerkova, 2 units of doom reavers and Fenris.
BlasterBonatti - November 12, 2009 11:29 AM (GMT)
lol. Could be fun with goreshade.
"44 focus?" I care not sir"
IAN LACEY - November 12, 2009 01:43 PM (GMT)
Well if I got aught from that query it is the heads up about HEALING. I'm looking at Skarre, (in a 'shall I give Gaspy a rest, or keep going till I've got his moves sussed?' kind of way rather than...quite), and I wonder how many players give her so many wounds that a gleeful opponent just wanders in and effectively gives her a tap, and lo' 'caster assassinated! I suppose she always has the option of using focus to remove points of damage but having some sort of healing to hand would be good.
Oh? And Necro-surgeons can do their own thing? Ok, as pointed out 31 points is almost as much as the 39 points for the Mechanithralls they used to have to attach to, (logic dictated you just bought another unit), but if they can now do their own thing they will be much more useful. I recall that the rules distinguish twixt a SOUL token, and a CORPSE token. So presumably if it is set up right, an unfortunate victim would yield one of each. If they have decided to make it enemy figures only that really makes the debate redundant, (and how about those players who forked out the cash for Steelhead Halberdiers et al, and now find them surplus to their original requirements). Still...30 Halberdiers? LONG game!
BlasterBonatti - November 12, 2009 03:02 PM (GMT)
I use Skarre all the time and have never really had a problem keeping her alive. pSkarre's casting Sacrificial Lamb every turn so has an abundance of focus to heal herself. eSkarre I've had less experience with but I usually leave her hanging back until the end game, plus she can have admonition on herself which can get her out of a tight spot quite efficiently. In Mk2 I'll always take a necrosurgeon to heal her.
Bladestorm - November 12, 2009 03:10 PM (GMT)
The MK II rulebook and model information can be had from here: http://privateerpress.com/company/mkii-rul...or-pdf-download
The necrosurgeon and her three stitch thralls function as a mini-unit for 2 points and can wander around collecting corpse tokens and adding thralls to whichever mechanithrall unit she wants or healing - whatever strikes her fancy. (Note: 2 points is the price of most solos in mk II)
The mechanithralls are much as they ever were and are 3 points for the minimum unit and 5 for the maximum unit (super-cheap price point)
The steelheads lost forfend but kept everything else and dropped from what was previously a medium to medium-high price point to the new "cheap" point of 4 for the minimum and 6 for the maximum - Still an extremely solid all-round unit of grunts wether you need ground held or something attacked.
IAN LACEY - November 13, 2009 06:30 PM (GMT)
Well thankee' kindly for the heads-up and so forth. I'm typing this down in Inverbervie, and now have a bog-standard Skarre in my grasp. I am pretty much cheered up because I had bought the Necro-surgeon ages ago, came to the general conclusion that she was not worth the points, and so she has lounged forgotten at the back of the display case. Now I expect she will be lumped in with any decent-sized list. Especially with Skarre. I had another look at the MkII card for the necro-surgeon. It does not say that much about the stitch thralls, but I can live with that.
BlasterBonatti - November 13, 2009 10:43 PM (GMT)
Stitch thralls have 3 functions:
1/ bigger range for corpse grabbing
2/ sacrificial pawn for the surgeon
3/ block charge lanes
They don't do much else really, aside from look like Gollum. I'm quite fond of them, it'd be great if Cryx got more "mini thralls"!