The Death Of Warhammer, For me, and maybe for all.

[SirHiss2k5]

Well, it's been a few years since I joined this forum, and I've moved away from the hobby in that time. I came back here hoping to find those chatty guys who helped me out in the old days and to see if anyone might want to lift my spirits about the hobby that is Warhammer. But I see now this site is dead, the hobby is crumbling, and I fear there is no going back.

So why do I write this, a speech to an empty room, and uncaring wall you ask. Well I thought I would outline the the reasons the hobby has died for me in hope that those that read this might just keep from treading the dark path I went down.

So let's start at the beginning........

Summer 2004.
I had just moved in with a good friend of mine from the dorms in college. He was into all the classic nerd/dork/geeky things (D&D, Magic, etc. etc.). I had remembered when I was a kid (about 12 years old) a friend gave me a blister pack with two skaven. I was unpacking and I found the little guys and I decided to look more into the hobby. I ask my friend if he would be interested in starting into the hobby with me. He agreed, we went to the store and he got High Elves, I got Lizardmen and it all started. I quickly assembled my lizardmen and had them painted in no time. We played a few games, but he quickly moved in with his girlfriend at the time in November. Our games were then limited to once a month. But we both continued to collect for our armies and stuck with the hobby.

2005
I decided to go off to graduate school and he in the fall of 2005 got married. I moved to about a 2.5 hour drive from my good friend and I stopped collecting my Lizardmen (I had everything I wanted in the army at this point). He continued to build his force, and indeed started some new armies (Wood Elves, Tomb Kings). We didn't see much of each other, and so we didn't play all that much (maybe once every two months). I kept up with the hobby, but the luster was already starting to where off.

2006-2007
Now deep into graduate school I had no time for the hobby. My friend had now gotten into terrain and modifying his figures, but actual battles between us only happened about 4 times a year at this point. My figures languished in the closet and never saw the light of day.

2008
In a last ditch effort to revive the hobby for me, my friend and I purchased the Battle of Skulls pass set. I assembled the dwarfs, he took goblins, and we played a few games. But before you knew it I was done with school and moved off again. Ever since I have not looked at the Games Workshop website, my army books, or even my figures until about 2 days ago.


So what have I learned through all of this and what drove me away.
1) Social stigma.
I could never get over this since day one. I was never comfortable in the hobby stores, being in my mid twenties and having anyone I interacted with about the hobby be in their teens. I also could never explain to my other friends and family that the hobby was more interesting than most hobbies. I was immediately labeled as a dork. When I met new people, I never reveled my hobby to them for fear of what they would think. I've been single during my entire hobby experience and I never felt that I would be ok divulging my hobby to someone I was dating for fear of them leaving me. This is the biggest reason I've left the hobby.

2) Cost
It was always expensive, but the cost finally got to me. I think I spent in all around $800 on the hobby. I simply can no longer justify that cost for plastic.

3) Warhammer is dying
It was impossible for me to find people in my area to play with once I moved away from my friend. Everyone is 40k, and with WOW taking over, I fear the time, cost, and commitment of Warhammer is too much for anyone.

My friend is still and avid player, though I had to tell him today I was leaving the hobby for good. He has only played against me and I fear that my leaving will ruin his hobby. He has spent nearly $2000 on this hobby and now has 4 complete and 2 incomplete armies along with numerous single figures, terrain, and other things associated with Warhammer. I hope he continues to enjoy the hobby, but I am finally out.

So for you new Warhammer here is my advice.

1) Start very small. Only get a warband size unit. Play with it many times. If after 6 months you want to expand then do so, but don't spend the time and money too early only to find you dislike the hobby.

2) Beware your friends/family. Warhammer made me an outcast. The social stigma around a game like this was too great for me to overcome. Fact is 99% of people (especially women) will not understand the hobby. By keeping my hobby in the closet I never really got into it for the fear of what others would think of me, especially women since I am single and 26 years old now, and let's face it, Warhammer does not get you dates, period. If you don't care about that kind of thing then good for you, I wasn't strong enough to overcome it.

3) Gaming in groups. Make sure you have several (10+) people to play with when you start. This insures variability in the games and in the end most if not all of these people will eventually quit for various reasons. If you are lucky after a year or two you will still have a couple of people to play with.

And with that I say goodbye to my hobby for the past 4 years of my life. It wasn't all bad, I really did enjoy the games, the painting, and other aspects of the hobby. I wish I had more friends that were into it, but alas it wasn't to be. I'm off to more "grown up" hobbies, in 2005 I obtained my S.C.U.B.A certification and will be pursing that instead. My little lizards will stay in the closet, and maybe one day come back to out for a game or two.

I would like to thank this board and its members for the support and friendship they offered during those early days. I have, and will continue to miss you guys. With that I set my LTP's on the table and say....goodbye.

P.S. If there is anyone left to try and talk me back into the hobby I will be checking in on this post for the next few weeks.

[Spiney Norman]

Wow, thats a sad tale, but one I can understand all to easily, and in certain places, relate to strongly.

I got into warhammer with my brother about 5-6 yrs ago and initially we played a lot. He used dwarfs, I used LM and over time, being reasonably well off I was able to expand into other armies, like Tomb King and Wood Elves.

Eventually however I left home and went off to uni. Like yourself I perceived a certain social stigma around the game, so when I went, the figs stayed at home. However shortly into the first term I stumbled across a strange sight, a tall, 3rd year student sat in the common room reading the Warhammer Fantasy roleplay book. From that day on geek games were very much on at uni, we did everything from MTG to D&D to Warhammer, but alas he finished his course, got married and moved away. I used to go stay with him during breaks etc and we played loads, even got me into playing this age old discontinued GW game Man O War, (which is totally awesome and should never have been allowed to drop out of prodution). Most of all this guy taught me to get over the social stigma, now I find that when people hear I play warhammer they think its funny, then when I pull out my figure case they are all like "wow, you painted that?"

I'll be honest, my interest in the game has only been kept alive through the online forums I visit. I've largely given up buying new stuff, preferring to update my old paint jobs by stripping my old ones and I really love the painting.

I share your trepidation regarding GW stores, the staff members are generally too weird and the gaming club nights are full of kids and older weirdo geeks, it seems no normal people over the age of 14 attend GW gaming nights.

But now I've graduated, and I'm hopeful that I'll be able to get the old rivalries going from my uni days, giving my painting schedule something to aim for.

I have fiercely resisted the pull of WOW, a geek I am, but I will not be an anti-social recluse geek. Finding a good local gaming club is hard, but once your involved in one its absolutely great.

[Onisuzume]

Well, its not *my* fault that the site died... is it?

If it wasn't for me, there'd be dozens of spam-bot-threads here.

As for WHFB dying: well, it is more difficult than 40k...
So that'd be part of the reason, I guess.
Another part of it could be publicity, though that's partially been taken care of by the computer games.

Ofcourse, the type of publicity is dependant on the rating given to the game. If the game sux, then it gives negative publicity. It its good, then its positive publicity.

And with the recently increased tin price, it won't be getting more popular. (yeah, all metal models get a price hike)

[SirHiss2k5]

I told you I would check in.

Onisuzume- What has happened to the TSP is in no way your fault. It's mine and everyone else who moved on. Like I said, I really enjoyed this site, and it is because of people like you that made the site a wonderful place to interact with fellow hobbyists. I do wonder where everyone went though.

Spiney Norman- It's good you have overcome the social stigma of Warhammer. I wish I could do the same, like I said it is a personal failing on my part, and I know that it is a great game. Good luck as you continue to enjoy the hobby.

I think the future of Warhammer will be that of Mordheim. A few players keeping it alive, but nothing like it once was. Games Workshop is going to make so much money on Warhammer Online, and other computer games, it will end its miniature ranges forever (40K included). The profit margin on a computer game is so much more than in tabletop gaming. They have all the intellectual rights to the stories, armies, characters, etc that they can keep on pushing out games for the masses and only a VERY few fans will keep the tabletop game going.

Just my two cents.

[Skinkhero]

SirHiss2k5 with all due respect I think you might be looking on the future of the hobby a bit negatively.

Do you still enjoy any aspects different from gaming such as the painting/modelling? Maybe that's something to stick around for?

Besides it's natural that many players will stop playing. But supposedly many 'come back'.

I wish I could have stayed on the site a lot more when it was alive - and how very alive it was in 04/5 - but it's saddening to see it dead now that I happen upon it today. And look at my join date!

Anyway SirHiss the Lizardmen are being re-released early 2009. But I'm being a bit of a hypocrite, I stopped playing and painting around the end of 2005...since then I've only looked at material recently.

Anyway I posted and signed in because I saw my old threads and then checked to see how active the board was. I actually thought it had been taken down completely.

Hopefully I've helped you somewhat.

[jigplums]

sorry but warhammer has nothing to do with you being an outcast. If you continue to think that way [blame external factors] then i fear that will never change.

My first day at college 11 years ago, we were all asked to stand up and say something about ourselves. One guy stood up and said he was into Roleplay and tabletop wargames. We have been mates ever since and at the time 4 other people[plus me and my mate] all dabbled to different degrees with various "geeky" pastimes. in fact he's just had his first child and i was best man at his wedding 2 years ago. We both do other geeky pasttimes, Magic, Live action Roleplay etc... and we both are very sociable people.

My mates being the funny guys they are, told a girl i did live roleplay[so much more geeky than warhammer] on our second date. Were still together nearly 7 years later[scarey its been that long].

Why the hell do you care what other people think of your hobbies? Do you enjoy it? yes. does it affect others...no. then great. I dont get why people watch football. its just not me. In my experience girls[because most people are more bothered what girls think of them] would prefer a guy that does warhammer than a football fanatic.

Does your local GW not have a vets night? i thought they all did? Have you looked into local clubs? me and my mate started a club about 8? years ago. there were 4 of us to start with, and it took time to build up but now we have around 35 people a week. At least half collect warhammer.

Cost: only you can make that choice but what else are you going to do with your money? Take up football? £80 for this seasons topball top £40 to go to a match, season ticket? signed memorabielea, pay per view etc...
Thats alot of little plastic men

Playing wow: decent PC £1000. to me thats 5 armies. and whatever people say you wont make friends playing WOW. I prefer the social aspects of the hobby.

The point here being what ever hobbys you do they cost MONEY.

This site may have died, but its very specific specialised forum. try www.heresy-online.net
its probably the fastest growing forum on the net at the moment and the warhammer guys there are pretty cool. Yes it has more 40k posters, but MANHAMMER is where the real men go. Warhammer isn't dying, GW are opening 50 new stores in the next 5 years in the uk. Seems pretty healthy to me, and as i was in my local GW this weekend and there were around 60 people crammed in there playing games[small store] i'd say its reasonably healthy

Overall my advice would be Grow up a bit. And im not saying that to be offensive, but when i was 11 was the last time i cared what other people thought of my hobbies and i think most people grow out of it by the time there 18, otherwise you'll always find it hard to make any real friends.

again hope this doesn't sound too harsh but i think it needs to be said.

[jigplums]

actually regarding the site. The major problem IMO is the web address. I'm guessing it won't be very high up on google etc as it has none of the words people will search for in its title.
I followed a link in someones signature, who had posted on someones lizardmen list, which is the best way of spreading word imo.

[Onisuzume]

Well, I guess the URL might be an issue, yes.
But one of the other issues would be the general decline of activity of the forum. Even spambots barely frequent it if at all.