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Favorite Firearms
| Praxus |
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Member of the vast right wing conspiracy

Group: Admin
Posts: 332
Member No.: 14
Joined: 2-June 04

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You have undertaken to cheat me. I won't sue you, for the law is too slow. I'll ruin you. -Cornelius Vanderbilt
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| Comrade Nathan |
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Newbie

Group: Marxist Bastard
Posts: 23
Member No.: 89
Joined: 12-July 04

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Have you fired this. What does it fire like. Here in Australia we have limits one what guns you can own so i have only shot shot-guns and Bolt action. If i go to America i will deffinitaly go to a rifle range.
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Warning: This poster is a Marxist
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| Praxus |
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Member of the vast right wing conspiracy

Group: Admin
Posts: 332
Member No.: 14
Joined: 2-June 04

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I've never fired it mainly because it cost something like 2 grand. I'm gonna get an M1A(Civilian Version of M14) and Remington 700 Series bolt action rifle.
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You have undertaken to cheat me. I won't sue you, for the law is too slow. I'll ruin you. -Cornelius Vanderbilt
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| Comrade Nathan |
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Newbie

Group: Marxist Bastard
Posts: 23
Member No.: 89
Joined: 12-July 04

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| QUOTE (Praxus @ Jul 19 2004, 07:09 PM) | | I've never fired it mainly because it cost something like 2 grand. I'm gonna get an M1A(Civilian Version of M14) and Remington 700 Series bolt action rifle. |
Crazy.
The rifle i use is a .243 bolt action. It is just right for the game we hunt, meduim size ie pigs, goats. The next gun i will get when i have a job will be a winchester the type with the lever to reload under the triger.
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Warning: This poster is a Marxist
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| Praxus |
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Member of the vast right wing conspiracy

Group: Admin
Posts: 332
Member No.: 14
Joined: 2-June 04

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The best hunting caliber I know of is 30-06.
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You have undertaken to cheat me. I won't sue you, for the law is too slow. I'll ruin you. -Cornelius Vanderbilt
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| Kriegsgefahrzustand |
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Alike Alceste

Group: Admin
Posts: 947
Member No.: 68
Joined: 18-June 04

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SOCOM .40 S&W (H&K) is the best self defence pistol made chambered for the most efficient round. Less recoil than a .45 more stopping power than a 9mm, right in the sweet spot.
The NRA did a great study on the .40 S&W round, maybe you can still find it somewhere.
It'll run you $1,200 for the decent model.
Oh, yeah its made by Heckler and Koch.
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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" -Cato the Elder
"Mon centre cede, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j'attaque!" -Ferdinand Foch, 8 September 1914
"Asymmetry works both ways. There is nothing quite as asymmetric as a tank driving over an infantryman. " -Helmoed-Roemer Heitman JDW Correspondent
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| Kriegsgefahrzustand |
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Alike Alceste

Group: Admin
Posts: 947
Member No.: 68
Joined: 18-June 04

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Oh, and Sig Sauer makes a comparable weapon in the P226 you may also want to look into. Its also chambered to the .40 S&W.
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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" -Cato the Elder
"Mon centre cede, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j'attaque!" -Ferdinand Foch, 8 September 1914
"Asymmetry works both ways. There is nothing quite as asymmetric as a tank driving over an infantryman. " -Helmoed-Roemer Heitman JDW Correspondent
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| Praxus |
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Member of the vast right wing conspiracy

Group: Admin
Posts: 332
Member No.: 14
Joined: 2-June 04

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I'm old fashined. I would buy a Model 1911A1 built to military specs. It's incredibly reliable and powerful. Not to mention outright sexy! http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/p...W9108LLarge.jpgYou can get this model for slighly under $500. You know this pistol will fire, doesn't really matter what will happen to it. If you want a good home defense pistol, this is it. How much the magazine can hold is rather insignificant, so what matters is knockdown power. You don't want the guy trying to confiscate your weapons to shoot back after you hit him;) Another good one is built by Springfield, it one "Pistol of Year" or something to that effect... It is called the XD... http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/x...XD9401Large.jpgA friend of mine owns a M1A (Civilian M14), AR-15 with Match Grade Barrel, and Colt 1911A1. He has well over 5,000 rounds for both his rifles, and about the same for his pistol. He lives in Penn. I live in New Jersey so it's a pain in the ass to get any firearms.
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You have undertaken to cheat me. I won't sue you, for the law is too slow. I'll ruin you. -Cornelius Vanderbilt
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| Inspector |
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Night Watchman

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,209
Member No.: 44
Joined: 8-June 04

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Ah, so now begins the great debate on personal defense!
9mm?
It does have the least recoil and can carry the most rounds in a clip. "Knockdown" power is said to be less, but a headshot is a headshot, so those who are confident in their accuracy often advocate this round. Of course, it also has the advantage of not going through walls and hitting the neighbors. It has less penetration when you need it, as well. For the category of concealed carry/home defense, I would wonder how much penetration you need? "Stopping power" against a human target is often more a function of the size of the round than the velocity...
.40?
Seems like a compromise between the two, with added velocity to boot. But does velocity help against a soft target?
.45?
Obviously the largest round, with the smallest magazine capacity, heaviest piece, most recoil. But also it has the most stopping power. Also the most likely to go through the walls. My first instinct is to go with this because it's more powerful. Of course, juries don't tend to like it when you empty the clip into a guy, so a one-shot kill/incapacitate might be desirable. But putting aside my "more power" instinct, there is obvioisly a point of diminishing returns for the application of home defense. What is it, though? .45? .357 Magnum? .44 Magnum?
Ah, if only I had the money for all of them...
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| Praxus |
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Member of the vast right wing conspiracy

Group: Admin
Posts: 332
Member No.: 14
Joined: 2-June 04

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Interestingly enough the Colt 1911 was developed to put down drug crazed muslims in the philipines. It was built for this purpose.
Also the .45 ACP cartridge has only a slightly higher muzzle energy then 9 x 19mm cartridge. Which is 380 ft.lbs and 340 ft.lbs respectivly.
Therefor the 9mm cartridge is better for "long range" shooting out to 100 meters.
The .45 ACP is supperior at close range because of the tissue damage it causes which helps to incapacitate the target and make him a non-threat. The .45 ACP is not meant to penetrate armor but to take an unarmored target down and do it consistantly.
The only reason we switched to 9mm is because our European allies had it and in the event of a war with Soviet Russia we could use our ammo interchangably if one countries supplies got cut off.
| QUOTE | | Ah, if only I had the money for all of them... |
Never take a pistol to a gun fight, buy an M1A!
| QUOTE | | there is obvioisly a point of diminishing returns for the application of home defense. What is it, though? .45? .357 Magnum? .44 Magnum? |
You want the velocity to be where you get the maximum pressure wave and tissue damage. Therefor you want it to be slow enough where it doesn't over penetrate but fast enough where it dose the maximum damage.
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You have undertaken to cheat me. I won't sue you, for the law is too slow. I'll ruin you. -Cornelius Vanderbilt
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| Inspector |
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Night Watchman

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,209
Member No.: 44
Joined: 8-June 04

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Obviously, you are a fan of the .45 ACP.
| QUOTE | | Never take a pistol to a gun fight, buy an M1A! |
I don't plan on getting into any gunfights anytime soon. If I do, I'm screwed. For now, I'm looking for close range home defense that won't over-penetrate and is controllable by a novice and will put down an intruder with one hit, if possible.
Now, that could be a pipe-dream...
Are you saying that the .45 ACP is ideal in terms of pressure wave/velocity?
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| Cabinia |
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Newbie

Group: Banned
Posts: 34
Member No.: 128
Joined: 6-August 04

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The Colt 1911 is sweet, but if you really want home defense, you're better off with a 12-gauge shotgun. Knockdown power to spare, and when your life depends on it, you don't want to miss.
I would never want a 9mm in my hand if my life depended on it. Nevermind the lack of knockdown power, the fact that they're so light means they're easily susceptible to recoil. When the navy switched from the 1911 to a Baretta 9mm, we took the new guns to the range, and everyone's range scores plummeted dramatically. The sturdy, solid steel 1911 was far more accurate in the hands of novices and veterans alike.
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| Praxus |
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Member of the vast right wing conspiracy

Group: Admin
Posts: 332
Member No.: 14
Joined: 2-June 04

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I'm a little pessimistic about about saving the tree of liberty without the blood of patriots and tyrants (Yes I know I am a Thomas Jefferson fan too!) thats why I think you would get in a shootout;)
| QUOTE | | Are you saying that the .45 ACP is ideal in terms of pressure wave/velocity? |
It's supperior to 9mm and .40 in that respect I don't think I would call it ideal.
It really depends on what is more important to the shooter, accuracy at greater ranges and more bullets, or more knockdown power and reliability.
| QUOTE | | The Colt 1911 is sweet, but if you really want home defense, you're better off with a 12-gauge shotgun. Knockdown power to spare, and when your life depends on it, you don't want to miss. |
So true, nothing can beet knockdown power of Shotgun in close quaters.
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You have undertaken to cheat me. I won't sue you, for the law is too slow. I'll ruin you. -Cornelius Vanderbilt
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