Just curious as to what the consensus was among capitalists with regard to abortion.

I know Ayn Rand supported it but was wondering what everyone else thinks.

Surley one cannot call them selves capitalist and attack abortion. Laiisez faire, no government interferance.

Well why not let murder be legal?

A capitalist governement would protect and indivuduals rights and property.
But no an unborn fetus is not an individual.

Abortion and murder have nothing to do with each other.

Really? What may I ask is the difference between a new born infant and a 9-mounth old fetus?

Its still in the mothers body. Its not an individual.

The child while it is still attached to the women, is a parasite. A parasite only has the right to be in you if you want it to.

Now fetuses are parasites. That is pretty shaky moral ground. After all the mother do have a role in creating the life.

<_< I beg to differ

Nowadays a kid can be born at 5 months old and live. Having an abortion is terminating a human life

I support abortion.
Im not christian, and i belive a fetus is something with a popential to become a human, just like a nut has a potential to become a tree.

But you dont treat a nut as you would a tree,
therefor you dont treat a fetus as you would a person.

(you dont climb in nuts).


Forcing somebody to have a baby is immoral. If they for example have been raped, and are at an age of thirteen, what do you do then?
The girl cant take responsibility for the baby, so then you either depend on some sort of social secutiry (not laissez-faire) or private charity.

A nut and a fetus are not viable analogically

Neither am I. The question of Abortion is a philosophical one not a religious one.

A fetus is human. Unless you have a new species for it.

A nut is just a young tree.

Similar logic could be used to justify the killing of infants.

The much greater wrong is done to the baby if it were to be killed.

The question comes down to whether the child is a human life. If it is, then you do kill and innocent person because you have been wronged.

I do not believe in complete laissez-faire government.

Its not murder by any law in the US or the UK, as I am aware.

The question is a moral one not a legal one.

The fact that the fetus is human is irrelivent, it is a parasite, it is forcing the Mother to sacrifice herself regaurdless if she wants to.

Couldn't a child be considered a parasite as well? After all in the parent has to feed and protect it. A considerable inconvenience.

The child then has rights as it is a seperate entity, which are protected by law.

So if the law said that you could kill a child it would be right?

An unwanted fetus is a parasite, you(the woman) have no choice but to let it live off of your own body for it to survive.

A child, outside of the womb, is not a parasite. Though it still needs food, it is not physically living off of your body. It is no longer dependent on your existance in order to continue its own.

Really?

Do you think it is? o.O I mean babies live when their mother dies in child birth all the time. It really doesn't require you live, it still needs care but it doesn't need it from your body.

Neither do fetueses once they are 5 months old and older


They can be born and be a viable being <_<

The whole abortions right thing is based on a womans "right to choose"

Since when did we have the right to kill people? :rolleyes:

Its just sluts who want a way to not have responsibilities when they get pregnant from all the men they bang <_<

The following quote sums up exactly my thoughts on abortion:

"I cannot project the degree of hatred required to make those women run around in crusades against abortion. Hatred is what they certainly project, not love for the embryos, which is a piece of nonsense no one could experience, but hatred, a virulent hatred for an unnamed object...Their hatred is directed against human beings as such, against the mind, against reason, against ambition, against success, against love, against any value that brings happiness to human life. In compliance with the dishonesty that dominates today's intellectual field, they call themselves 'pro-life.'"
— Ayn Rand

So I should let it live off my body for 5 months so it's viable? What about the first 5 months? I personally am not for late term abortion, mostly for that reason, but I don't think I should be forced to carry a "parasite" for 5 months until it is no longer dependent upon me.

I never said I thought it was a SMART thing to do, but I do think women should be able to if they so choose. If a woman does not support abortion, no one can force her to abort nor should they, just as if a woman chooses to abort no one should be able to take that away from her.

That has to be one of the largest generalizations I have ever heard. You think only sluts get pregnant? You think only sluts are pro-choice? I'm a virgin and I am 100% pro-choice, I certainly do not support it so I can sleep around without consequences. People in monogamous relationships still get pregnant, condoms break, pills fail, etc. not to mention rape and molestation...And remember it takes a man too, so don't just blame this on "slutty women." Besides that I highly doubt you can say abortion doesn't have consequences in itself, no matter your choice their are risks and consequences you will face.

It all comes down too, if you arent ready to have a kid, dont have sex

That's not a very realistic approach, but ok.

So if you are in a relationship with someone you love, but niether of you want kids ever. You would rather focus on each other, your careers/education, and your lives together, you should never have sex? Just because you do not want kids?

Have a vasectomy then :rolleyes:

It is a realistic option but people are too irresponsible and lazy to put it into action

All People have rights (i.e. right to life).
All humans are People.
A fetus is a human (verifyable genetically).
A fetus has the right to life.

Actually I considered the idea of tubiligation(probably spelled that wrong), as I am female and I do not want kids, but considering I'm only 18 doctors won't do it unless you have medical cause(or are made out of money...)...So I'm just out of luck huh? Even that fails though you realize, it's about as effective as the birth control pill if taken properly.

Even so, it is unrealistic to expect people to just not have sex until they're ready or surgically rendered "sterilized," in an ideal world maybe, but not this one not now. It also still doesn't take into account for rape and molestation for those who had no choice in the pregnancy.

If they dont want to have a kid, then dont have sex. Thats ALL There is too is


And just because you were raped or molested, that means you gonna kill an innocent byproduct of said act? :rolleyes:

Nice logic there

And it is logical for me to give up everything I have going for me, because of what someone else did? I should live someone else's wrongdoing? Sounds like I would be taking the punishment for someone else's crime.

I think it's illogical to expect people to not have sex, what is logical is to expect them to take precautions. I think if you're doing what is available to you to prevent pregnancy then you are being responsible and should have a choice about whether you want to go through with pregnancy or not. Your body, your choice. My body, my choice.

So your rights trump the fetuses rights? :rolleyes:

The point is that the fetus dont have any rights.

Its not a person yet.
Beliving that life starts at conseption is an oppinion i dont think i've met any non-religious people expressing..


A fetus is not an individual.

Besides, do you want a country were abortion is handeled by organised crime?
(Which is a logical result, seeing that all services the government wont provide, others will, if the demand is there).

Im not saying you should accept abortion, you're entitled your own oppinion.
Im just saying that its the womans choice.

If somebodys been raped, can you then force them to give birth to that baby, and raise it?

Maybe some sort of pregnancy-insurance could be an idea? Wereas if you should get pregnant, the agency will raise the child for you...? ;-)

Thats the prblem. They dont and they should

I believe its a human and Im not religious ;)

Yes, IMO if the mob handled it and more people died from it, people would decide against it. Get rid of these people whom use it as a form of birthcontrol <_<

Im heartless when it comes to fully grown people and stupid decisions. I think the death penalty should be issued for more than murder

Indeed, I agree the fetus isn't entitled to the same rights so I suppose the argument between us two is leading nowhere.

I feel the fetus is "potential human life" but not yet an individual entitled to all the rights a fully developed human being is. Life does not start at conception for me, at conception it is no more than a jumble of cells and such and is no more entitled to individual rights than every egg in my body.

Obviously, since a fetus cannot have rights - and because no one may force a woman to make a decision towards either way - , abortion will be legal. Well, really, it will not, since it will not be adressed in the constitution. It is implicitly legit. To force a woman to give birth is ultra-fascism.

Why cant a fetus have rights?

Individuals (that excludes fetuses) have rights. Only individuals. Read up on Ayn to find out why. Disregarding the globally morally unambigous situations of unvoluntary conception, the creation of a fetus is indeed consentual. However, the fetus cannot be given rights, since that would negate the rights of the mother - actual, individual life.

I disagree... I think if you get pregnant the fetuses rights trump yours for those 9 months

Then you are advocating the "rights" of potential life in front of those of actual life. 100% incompatible with individual rights.

May you state your ideological preference?