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Title: I Found This From Betterbettas.
Description: Reducing iridescence. Very interesting.


yeevia2006 - February 19, 2007 09:21 AM (GMT)
I found this from Betterbettas. I always found Phil is a very interesting guy. :)

Marble base seem to reduce Iridescence. It works for me according to my experience. I have played with Steels, Black genotype, for over 30 years. The whole argument went nuts when the metallic colors arrived. Coppers, Golds, Platinums, and I guess Aluminum is next.
Olde Dragon Phil
www.BettaCave.com


Aluminum color next. :OO :OO :OO

Haeun - February 19, 2007 10:07 AM (GMT)
;) There is already a "silver" color. Check out my post in HMPK section.

Pam S - February 19, 2007 11:05 AM (GMT)
Yeevia,

It was my comment on Better Bettas.

I did get an email from someone that said if I crossed marble into my line... it could mess up the red line, that it would be better to find reds that had less iridescence.

Marble is a strange gene, they lose color, gain color, and I don't want to somehow get the red loss gene !!

I had read on another site that some betta breeders used orange or yellow to lessen the iridescence.

There is a show in Houston in March .. want to see what "show " bettas look like and if I am breeding competitive fish.

Pam

(RC) - February 19, 2007 11:20 AM (GMT)
Anything you breed into your reds to reduce the iridescents will only help IF the fish you use has less iridescents.. Just like selecting for less iridescents in your line. Nothing reduces irdescent short of finding a fish that doesn't care the spread iridescent gene and most non-iridescent lines already don't carry it. Breeding yellow or orange will only help if the fish has less iridescents , but in no way will the "color" itself help remove iridescents. Pam is your red line light bodied or dark bodied based ?



RC

Pam S - February 19, 2007 12:25 PM (GMT)
RC,

The fish I am breeding now are dark bodied? From the pictures I have seen in Flare, they are not carrying the blonde gene. When you say dark bodied .. what are you looking for ?

I have a pair in the breeding tank now that hardly have any iridescence.. nothing yet. The other pair I have 3 wk. babies from, male has great finnage , a little iridescence, but a "bad butterfly", female was solid red with some irid. Both pairs are probably what is called extended red. The red covers the head. But my concept of "little" irid. might be too much and a major fault when compared to the top breeders' reds.

I had a red pair and fry from another breeder that carried cellophane, cambodian, marble, doubletail, and butterfly... after talking to him more he was more into sales than show. I did not keep any babies from this pair - did not produce anything I considered show quality.

Right now I just want a quality, competitive line of reds and royals. Hopefully, I will be able to go to the show in Houston this March to talk to people and see some quality fish.

Pam










(RC) - February 19, 2007 04:54 PM (GMT)
There are 2 different "types" of reds currently being shown in the red classes. The first is what has always been shown in reds and that is a extended red fish with a dark undercoating below the red color. The 2nd is a new color red that is cambodian based. It is light bodied like a cambodian, but the red has been bred to cover the body instead of just the fins like a cambodian would be. A good solid red line doesn't normally carry marble, butterfly, and all the rest of the stuff out there. It should carry DT to help produce the dorsal that is looked for.



RC

Pam S - February 19, 2007 09:10 PM (GMT)
RC,

I guess I'll be able to tell how pure the red line of the second pair is if they will ever spawn. Because the first set of 3 wk. old babies' dad is a butterfly.
Guess I'll have to email Suporn and try to pin him down on some background.

I know some reds have black flecks on the scales -read it in the standards, is there suppose to be a black edge around the scales to have a black undercoating?

I know their bodies are as dark as their fins... not cambodian with a lighter body and darker fins, not blonde red , not light red all over.. but??

I am planning on getting DT for the dorsals. Even though I think it might affect the body thickness of the fish carrying the gene.

Point me in the direction of a good picture that shows dark bodied reds..

Is there a CD through IBC ... that shows the judges' critique of the different colors etc. I know I have the manual sent by IBC and I have it on computer for the color pictures.


BTW- Thank you !!

Pam

(RC) - February 19, 2007 09:43 PM (GMT)
For many reasons there isn't a CD available currently with what your looking available from the IBC. I hope we can fix that next season. Here are two pictures of reds I have that show a light bodied and a dark bodied type. The first one is from Curtis Low of Hawaii
user posted image

This one is from Xman of Thailand.
user posted image

Both of the pictures came from Global Halfmoon Betta Breeders Club. (No longer a club)


RC

Pam S - February 19, 2007 10:20 PM (GMT)
RC,

They definitely have a dark body.. more like the second picture.
Yet.. seem to be more red.

Their color is not like the lighter .. first fish.

What about the iridescence of the two? Don't see much on the caudal of the first fish... more on the darker.

Pam

(RC) - February 19, 2007 11:03 PM (GMT)
I would judge the iridescent on both caudals to be pretty close, but the Dark Bodied red looks to have some on the dorsal and anal that the light bodied doesn't. The amount of iridescent on the two fish is not uncommon in that class. Both fish would get a major fault for the iridescent so they would be still be even after the iridescent was judged. The DB red is going to be faulted for the black rimed scales and the LB red will be faulted being a little lighter then the fins. (both minor faults, but the DBR could be bumped to a major because it's pretty heavy in the black edged scales). DBR is going to get a slight fault for white ventral, LBR going to get a minor fault for the flesh colored spots on the headgill area. As it is the DBR will be ahead by 2 points for color unless the judge bumps the black on the body to a major then it LBR will be ahead by 2 points. Both fishes color is pretty typical of what we see in that class right now.




RC




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