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Title: Hazel outperforming Mk II?
Description: Is it possible?


Bazookafied - June 3, 2006 07:53 PM (GMT)
I've been wondering this for awhile...

The RX-121 eventually leads to the development of the Mk II. It may not be a direct link, but many of the systems on the Hazel go into the Mk II. However, we see Hazels lasting into the Zeta timeline and active in combat roles durring the war and performing very well. If I recall, the only Mk II left was Kamille's and even that had to get the G Defensor upgrade to keep up with the newer Mobile Suits of the Zeta era. Now, don't get me wrong, the Hazel had its fair share of beatings and upgrades to keep up too. I'm wondering though if AEUG's Super Gundam met up with some form of the Hazel, woud it be a fair match? This is sort of a versus thread, but I wish for you to use statistics, data, everything we've collected to back up your statements about this.

selfpity - June 3, 2006 08:03 PM (GMT)
I haven't been on in a long time and its great to be back here.

Back to point,
Bazookafied do you have any pictures of both, for comparing purposes, or any more information on them that you can find or even some prices?

I'll reply more when I think of it

Bazookafied - June 3, 2006 08:09 PM (GMT)
Welcome back! Its been so long!

Well, theres too many variants of the Hazel to list them all. Utilize the AoZ Wiki. For the Mk II, theres stats at MAHQ. The two you'll need I'll list here for you!

Here's the Gundam Mk II without the Super Gundam attachment
Model number: RX-178
Code name: Gundam Mark II
Unit type: prototype general purpose mobile suit
Manufacturer: Earth Federation Forces (Titans)
Operator(s): Anti-Earth Union Group; Titans
First deployment: UC 0087
Accommodation: pilot only, in panoramic monitor/linear seat cockpit in torso
Dimensions: overall height 19.6 meters; head height 18.5 meters
Weight: empty 33.4 metric tons; max gross 54.1 metric tons; mass ratio 1.44
Construction: titanium alloy/ceramic composite on movable frame
Powerplant: Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactor, output rated at 1930 kW
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 4 x 20300 kg; vernier thrusters/apogee motors: 10
Performance: maximum thruster acceleration 1.50 G
Equipment and design features: sensors, range 11300 meters
Fixed armaments: 2 x XB-G-1048L (Titans) / A*E-Br*G-Sc-L (AEUG) beam saber, power rated at 0.45 MW, stored in recharge racks on backpack, hand-carried in use
Optional fixed armaments: VCU-505EX-Gry/Ver.009 (Titans) / VCU-505EX-V*B/Ver.012 (AEUG) 60mm 2-barrel vulcan pod, 1400 rounds total, mounted on head; RX*M-Sh-VT/S-00018 (Titans) / RX*M-Sh-VT/S-001 (AEUG) shield, mounted on either forearm
Optional hand armaments: BOWA*XBR-M-86-C2 (Titans) / A*E-Br*XBR-87-C (AEUG) beam rifle, power rated at 2.6 MW, powered by replaceable e-pac, 2 spare e-pacs stored in shield; H-Baz-85-Gry/Ver.045 (Titans) / H-Baz-87-A*E/Ver.004 (AEUG) 360mm hyper bazooka, clip-fed, 7 rounds per clip plus 1 round in chamber, can be stored on rear skirt armor storage rack; clay bazooka, clip-fed, 7 rounds per clip plus 1 round in chamber, can be stored on rear skirt armor storage rack


And here's the G Defensor with the Mk II to make the "Super Gundam"
Model number: RX-178+FXA-05D
Code name: Super Gundam
Unit type: RX-178 Gundam Mark II and FXA-05D G-Defenser combined mobile suit
Manufacturer: Earth Federation Forces/Titans (Gundam Mark II); Anaheim Electronics Company (G-Defenser)
Operator: Anti-Earth Union Group
First deployment: UC 0087
Accommodation: pilot only, in panoramic monitor/linear seat cockpit in torso of RX-178 Gundam Mark II
Dimensions: unknown
Weight: empty weight unknown; max gross 94.0 metric tons
Construction: titanium alloy/ceramic composite (Gundam Mark II) and gundarium alloy (G-Defenser) on movable frame
Powerplant: Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactors, total output unknown
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 4 x 20300 kg, 2 x 42400 kg
Performance: maximum thruster acceleration 1.77 G
Equipment and design features: sensors, range 11300 meters
Fixed armaments: 2 x A*E-Br*G-Sc-L beam saber, power rated at 0.45 MW, stored in recharge racks on Gundam Mark II backpack, hand-carried in use; 2 x 14-tube missile pod, mounted in binders on G-Defenser main body/backpack; 4 x vulcan gun, mounted in pairs in missile pod binders, each pair fire-linked; long beam rifle, power rated at 6.8 MW, mounted on right side of G-Defenser's main body, hand-operated by Gundam Mark II
Optional fixed armaments: VCU-505EX-V*B/Ver.021 60mm 2-barrel vulcan pod, 1400 rounds total, mounted on head; RX*M-Sh-VT/S-008 shield, mounted on left forearm
Optional hand armaments: A*E-Br*XBR-87-D beam rifle, power rated at 2.6 MW, powered by replaceable e-pac, 2 spare e-pacs stored in shield; H-Baz-87-A*E/Ver.009 360mm hyper bazooka, clip-fed, 7 rounds per clip

Master P Rayer - June 4, 2006 12:22 AM (GMT)
As far as i can see from Z Gundam TV series, Gundam Mk-II had to be reinforced with G-Defenser because Mk-II eventually unmatched against new Titans MS.

While Hazel had to fight with Zeon remnants in the beginning of the series, and then encounters AEUG MS later in the story, also have several modifications and power-ups. Let me ask you, are there any special AEUG MS, that TTT encounters? What are their MS mostly consist of? They only have GM IIs, Nemos, or maybe several Rick-Diaz.

It's kinda difficult if i say Hazel eventually become equal with Mk-II, since most of its enemies consist of mass produced MS, while Mk-II fought against newly developed MS like Gabhtley and Hambrabi.

*Some of my friends thinks that Rick-Diaz outclass Mk-II in some ways, maybe if Hazel can perform well gainst Rick-Diaz, they(Hazel and Mk-II) are equally strong.

wavehawk - June 4, 2006 06:24 AM (GMT)
I think I asked a bit of a similar question to this when I first came to this board. After some time with the disussions and all, it's a bit hard to pin down one point that makes the MK-II and Hazel comparable on even footing:
  • The Hazel was based on the GM Quel, while the MK-II was built off an original Movable Frame. IMHO, that makes the MK-II superior in terms of frame mobility.
  • The Hazel has the advantage of it's systems being actually tested and proven in combat, which is why they were developed and kept, and why they were later put into the MK-II. But the MK-II development effectively stopped when the AEUG acquired them, while the Hazel (still in Titans hands), continued to be added on and tweaked until the end of the Gryps war.
  • A lot of the development on the Hazel eventually went into the MK-II, but only at the point in time the MK-II project started; by the time the first prototype MK-IIs were flying, the Hazel would have already been improved further down the tech ladder.
  • How much of the MK-II's performance can actually be attributed to Camille's NewType capabilities? I may be mistaken, but far as I know, none of the T3 team are NewTypes (or if they are, definitely nowhere near Camille's level). Having a NewType abnormally swings the scales in the MK-II's favor. Not knocking Emma's piloting skills, mind you, but you've seen Jerid flying the MK-II. If it hadn't been Camille piloting the MK-II, I doubt that it would have lasted beyond the Jaburo drop; the Messala, Gaplant, and Asshimar were already active at that point in time.

IMHO, the Hazel is superior to the MK-II for one main reason: Adaptibility. The Gundam MK-II has a Movable frame, but for all intents and purposes it's a very traditional MS design, and the only development to it throughout it's service with the AEUG has been the G-Defensor. It's a good MS in ground combat, but horrible everywhere else without a Flying Armor platform or the G-Defensor. And the G-Defensor has it's major limitations as well--it gives the MK-II extra power and speed in space, but requires another pilot to carry it into combat--and let's face it, the G-Defenser's core fighter pod is a sitting duck once the Super Gundam is put together.

The Hazel, on the other hand, has had a few years head start, the advantage of multiple systems developed to give it advantages in differing environments. Icarus flight unit for atmospheric flight, the Hrududu for space combat, Shield Boosters, armor, sub arm units, and most importantly the capability to work with other MS (Fiver, for one).

Zionista - June 6, 2006 07:39 PM (GMT)
The Mark II also used the Wave Rider and Mega Rider to enhance its capabilities. So in the end it was a decent all-around MS that did better with some sort of enhancement package.

The contest between the basic Hazel I and the basic Mark II would be pretty close, and the Hazel Custom would be even closer. Any other sort of comparison would depend on the augmentation system they happened to be carrying. Putting an upgraded Hazel up against a Methuss or the Zeta Plus A1 would be a better benchmark of end performance, nee? :)

(The Cygne and original Zeta have to be discounted because they have Newtype pilots, on top of their mechanical performance. That puts a pilot performance variable in that straight vehicular performance cannot quantify.)




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