I think this is a hot topic right now in our society. There are plans for a Muslim mosque to be built upon the World Trade Center site. As everyone is aware, extremist Muslims are the ones who carried out the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon all those 9 years ago (can't believe it's been THAT long!).

The debate is, should a mosque dedicated to Muslims, which were the religion of the terrorists and part of the motivating factor that the attacks happened in the first place, be built upon that site?

Personally, I'm mixed. One one hand, this is America, a country built on religious freedom. People should be able to practice what they like here...it's the home of the free. Plus, there were many Muslims excluding the terrorist who were killed in the attacks. Extremists are in any religion, example, Fred Phleps using Christianity to motivate hate picketing. This would be a great way to honor the dead Muslims in our society.

On the other hand, I can see why people don't want it built there. That's sacred territory to thousands of families who lost loved ones there. Why build something there to honor Muslims, where the people who caused the attacks carried them out in the faith of their religion anyways? Many see it as wrong...I mean, you don't see them building a Japanese cultural museum on the site of Pearl Harbor...why should this be any different?

What are your thoughts on this?

Well It's being built near the Ground Zero, not on it.

Also as for the mUslim aspect, I just want to say there was a mosque that was not allowed to be made in Staten Island, just because the people there didnt want them there. So I think people are just using Ground Zero as a way of saying "We don't want your kind here" Even though there were Muslims in the Towers as well who lost their lives. So just let the people have it there. If they can have a Catholic Church, then there shouldn't be a problem with this.

I've posted about this alot in the Obama topic, so I'm not going to say much. I see no valid reason to be against it. Muslim American citizens also had to witness what happened on 9/11, and Muslims (like what POR and Dingos said) also died on that day. These aren't just Muslims who live in America, they are AMERICANS. Besides, it's not even just a mosque, it's an Islamic community center that is open to the public. It has a mosque in it, yes, but it also will have a pool, a basketball court, among other things.. Oh, and Dingos there are some Shinto Shrines close to Pearl Harbor. I know that's not very relevant.... but still.

I've been listenting to this more and more as of late and I was on the fence for a while but now I'm all for building it. The debate somes to take weird turns where people make it a us vs them feeling and that shouldn't be the case. Another common aspect of it is that this country is predominately christian and the muslim faith is foreign. No one complains of a christian church near the buildings where the Oklahoma City bombing took place and I'm sure it never occured to them.

One of the issues is that its so different to the mainstream and that it has been villianized so much that most americans only see Islamic/Muslims as the enemy. This would be a good step in erasing that stigma

I feel it's odd that they choose a location very near to the site, but I also believe they have the right to build it there. I do suggest that they take the portion of land that Governor Patterson is offering them to avoid a bunch of racist assholes from coming in and trashing the place.

I am against it because for 1 thing, 3000 ppl died on that day. Number 2 from what I heard, it's going to hold over 1000 worshippers. In NYC, most churches hold somewhere between -
100-200 people. So it's gonna be HUGE.

You aren't exactly explaining much as to why they shouldn't be built. And I doubt number 2 is even true. Even if the entire building holds over 1000 people, only one part of it will be for worship. BTW:
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/30/taliban...to-recruit.html

Another thing, they tried to have a mosque built somewhere in Staten Island, but they wouldn't even let them build it there.

At first, I heard a Mosque was going to be built directly on Ground Zero. I was fucking pissed off. Then, they said it was going to be NEAR Ground Zero, and I still thought it was a spit in the face. Then I heard it was going to be a community center WITH a Mosque built inside of it. That didn't change a thing because usually, religious community centers only have people of that religion inside and they look at everyone else in disgust. I know this because I used to go to a Budhist community center with a couple of my Asian friends, and this old guy walked up to my friends, pointed at me, and started yelling something in Vietnamese. My friend told me that it was closing early that night, but I know the old guy was just pissed that a "White" guy was there (even though my mom and over half my family is Asian), so it still pisses me off that they're doing this. THEN I heard JBL (Yes, The JBL) say on his twitter that this country was built on freedom of religion, and it made me think... all this time, people have been insulting my religion, but at the same time, I've been insulting this religion, so what the hell, they should go ahead and make it. I'm still unconfortable with it, but I know some day there will be an Edgist community center.

I agree that 9/11 sucked, but we have to move on, and I'm sure not every Muslim was okay with the trade center being destroyed. That's like every white guy being in the KKK.

I don't see a problem with this. It's like saying a Catholic Church shouldn't be built in Omagh because the Real IRA bombed the place. Just because this horrendous act was commited by Catholics, it doesn't mean all Catholics support their actions.

The same thing applies to Musslims when it comes to 9/11

It was muslim extremists that conducted those attacks. ^^ Not muslims. (Well, that's what the OFFICIAL story says anyway)

The fact that people even get upset and see this as a huge problem shows how brainwashed they have been by the american media to believe that all people of middle-eastern descent is THE ENEMY. Learn to seperate with rationale, not be ruled by fear.


For that matter - Doesn't it seem VERY probable to anybody else that the only reason the government wants to build this mosque is for the sake of increasing the gap between the american people and the middle-eastern world? The government KNOWS that people will react strongly to this and that it will only create more of a hostility and US VS THEM mentality.

It could be part of the NWO agenda. I've read somewhere that one tactic would be to incite people to start rioting so that they can lock them up in the concentration-like camps set up over the country. I believe the organisation involved with this is called FEMA.

Teryo, I'm open to opinions and I know you're a smart guy, but Jesus, c'mon.

C'mon what? It doesn't seem too far fetched to me. I believe that the NWO and some of their alleged plans are per definition a possiblity - and Im just throwing it out there so people would consider, and perhaps think in other circuits then "ALL GOVERNMENT SAYS IS TRUE". This in a day and age where you have things indicating other things.

Do I actively believe it? No, not really. There's no proof. Just very interesting theories.
But I do think that it's important to consider these theories. Most people refuse to even let themselves CONSIDER the possibility that things around them are not what they seem, because they are so brainwashed into thinking that it's a world of rainbows where the government is out to protect you and has not the slighest agenda to make money off you. Does that really sound more realistic?

Please don't use that conspiracy theorist logic of "YOU DON'T BELIEVE? YOU MINDLESS COWARD AND SHEEP!". It's the most obnoxious and pretentious way of thinking, which it doesn't seem to me that you exactly have, but I definately got it out of alot of the things you said in that post.
The reason I think the New World Order/Illuminati/Ohmygodfreemasonshavemeetingstheymustcontroltheworld theories are dumb is mainly where they come from, and how much fiction and just paranoid thinking has influenced them. Of course there are lots of holes in the theory, but those have alot to do with details that vary from person to person, and I don't know everyone's opinions, so I probably wouldn't have such strong thoughts on the theory if it had more convincing origins.
And, I didn't say c'mon to that post JUST because it's about the New World Order or even the theory about the "mosque", but really because I don't see any real reason to bring it up in this thread.

Im not saying that someone is brainwashed because they don't agree to the theories. That would just be dumb, and not much better then what a fundamentalist christian does.

However I am saying that a person seems pretty fucking brainwashed if they _completely_ refuse to suspect that the government or ruling authorities would have ANY weird shit going on. That is just completely blind and naive. Governments have been proven to be up to weird shit throughout the course of history and conspiracies have ALWAYS been a part of history and the government itself, for as long as they have existed. To completely deny their existance is just refusing to take reality into account.

As for what you think is appropriate to bring up in this thread, I couldn't care less. I think it's a very appropriate place for discussion since what I think about the whole Mosque-building has to do with alternative ways of thinking.

And if you think the NWO-theories are silly and make no sense, that's fine. To be honest I really haven't read up much about them, though I think there may be elements to them that might seem ridiculous. But I think that the general idea of a group of people controlling things "behind the curtains" really isn't something far-fetched at all. I guess that's the point I am trying to get across when talking about the theories. Not... that they would necessarily be shape-shifting lizards.

Although I wouldn't rule out that possibility.

But..... who was saying the government could never do anything wrong? Just because someone doesn't believe the government is up to ONE certain thing or is a part of ONE certain conspiracy doesn't mean they're denying they could do anything wrong. That's why I thought it was weird you started talking about brainwashing. And I wasn't saying that it was inappropriate to bring it up, it was just really random to me that your mind jumped to that when you heard that story.

Ehehe... hehe. o_o Well. It really did. That's seriously one of the first things that I though, shortly after "O M G THIS IS SO FUNNY".

Paranoia seems to be deeply embedded into my being. Im not saying that paranoia is always without reason though.

I can understand why people don't want it built near the attacks.

[utube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSCfoMPkms0[/utube]

That is all.

No Autoplay

WHY DO I ROTFL AT THIS

IT SOUNDS LIKE A PIG BEING RAPED