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Pages: (4) 1 2 [3] 4  ( Go to first unread post )

 ISF High-score Table, Enter your game and mod high-scores
Exaar
Posted: Dec 3 2005, 07:07 AM


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Again, let's hear what Fingers says.


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Exaar

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Shadowcat
Posted: Dec 3 2005, 09:01 AM


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I harbour a sneaking suspicion that there are no points for the latter (much as I enjoy doing it :)
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Hugo
Posted: Dec 3 2005, 10:00 AM


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So do we get points for:

1- Ships destroyed with the gong
2- Ships destroyed with any natural phenoma (black hole, nova)
3- Ships destroyed with the LVC
4- My latest, when in a 3 parties combat, how are the points distributed? If you do only 1 damage to a ship and it gets destroyed by another party, do you get points? Or do youget the points for being the one to give the last blow? Or perhaps even none of that matters, you get ALL the points for ANY ship destroyed by ANYONE.


--------------------
- Hugo

user posted image A complete SAIS mod, download it here !
.........:::::::::: Vote for this mod here ::::::::::........
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NihiliX
Posted: Dec 4 2005, 01:29 AM


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Re - fighters

I computed it would take about 10 hours to get 50K points - with an excellent game otherwise, that gives you the 100K of song and story...

I also wonder about enemy kills in multi-race battles. If you get them, the pacifist then becomes the hypocritical pacifist - i.e., I don't kill, but eagerly sit at ringside and watch others die in the vacuum of space...

Oh - forgot to add that my new personal small map high was with the pirate.
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therjw
Posted: Dec 4 2005, 01:35 AM


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bah you beaten me 27500 on med map and I thought I did brill I guess I should put the more nebule in than on low tongue.gif
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Hugo
Posted: Dec 4 2005, 01:45 AM


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QUOTE (Nihilix)
I computed it would take about 10 hours to get 50K points - with an excellent game otherwise, that gives you the 100K of song and story...


I don't know, as you can see, i tried that "strategy" on a medium map and without even trying to much i boosted my score by at least 20k in about 15 extra minutes.
(note that the trio PVC-CLOAK-RLthruster is a killer)


--------------------
- Hugo

user posted image A complete SAIS mod, download it here !
.........:::::::::: Vote for this mod here ::::::::::........
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NihiliX
Posted: Dec 4 2005, 07:56 PM


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Well, my kill rate is probably what's the problem with the fighter computation - and the number of 'assertive diplomacy' points you get per kill... I thought it was one per point.

Garthan fighters have seven hull points - times three, 21 points; nearly double for the Military mission = about 40 points per fighter. (forgot the multiplier as well)

Each fighter takes - what, two hits from a PVC to kill, and possibly one hit on the hulk?

PVC's fire rate is about 1 every 4 seconds. (Someone could look this up to be sure...) 15 shots per minute.

Figure about 5= zaps per disk'o'death before it ranges out. So each shot takes out two fighters. So that's 30 fighters a minute, times 40 points, makes 1200 points per minute.

So 50 k is about 45 minutes - so my math was waaaay off. 10 minutes will give you an extra 12000, and Hugo's fighter score is about 14,000 above the next highest. Pretty close. (other weapons on the ship may have chimed in for an extra 2k)

I remember bitching about this in the beta phase; I'd hope it's fixed eventually.

PS - I think the high score table should get a link in the navbar for the site.



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Exaar
Posted: Dec 4 2005, 09:28 PM


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I think the game should be fixed and afterwards the high-score list should be reset. As it stands now, going for the top score has lost all its appeal to me sad.gif


--------------------
Exaar

user posted image The ultimate mod for SAIS. Download the full version here now!
*************Vote for the mod here!*************
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Shadowcat
Posted: Dec 4 2005, 10:32 PM


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> I think the high score table should get a link in the navbar for the site.

My reason for not doing this was simply the fact that anyone at all can enter / alter scores. I have a reasonable amount of faith in forum-goers, and this way the chances are that folks who use the high score table are also present here in the forums.

I have a little less faith in random folks browsing the web not playing silly buggers with it.

If you find it slightly bothersome to get to, you might like to make a bookmark for it in your browser.
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Hugo
Posted: Dec 4 2005, 10:54 PM


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I agree, the highscore should be reset with the next patch.

QUOTE (Shadowcat)
I have a little less faith in random folks browsing the web not playing silly buggers with it.
And since the game is so easily tempered with, all those scores are also based on the assumption that we are all playing the original weird worlds.

It would have been nice if the game had been designed with an online highscore list. One that made sure of the genuineness of such score.



--------------------
- Hugo

user posted image A complete SAIS mod, download it here !
.........:::::::::: Vote for this mod here ::::::::::........
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Shadowcat
Posted: Dec 6 2005, 11:07 AM


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Whew. My first 50K+ score. Those games sure can take some time to play!

Resetting the high-score table? Assuming that you're talking about the ISF score table, I won't do anything as drastic as deleting the existing scores. Except perhaps for that one score of Hugo's :)

Potentially I could re-categorise them as another variant of the game (like a WW v1.0 'mod'), leaving the standard WW table empty for the patched game, but I think Hugo's medium-sector high score is the only one in the table where someone has purposefully exploited the fighter 'feature'? For the rest, I doubt the scores are really much different to what they would have been were spawned fights worth nothing at all (especially relative to competing scores -- most high-scoring games will have at least some Garthan carriers after all).

If people want to 'cheat' to get a high score posted at ISF, there are easier ways than shooting down fighters for a half hour :) I don't think anyone here is out to do that.
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Exaar
Posted: Dec 6 2005, 01:09 PM


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QUOTE (Shadowcat @ Dec 6 2005, 01:07 PM)
For the rest, I doubt the scores are really much different to what they would have been were spawned fights worth nothing at all (especially relative to competing scores -- most high-scoring games will have at least some Garthan carriers after all).

If people want to 'cheat' to get a high score posted at ISF, there are easier ways than shooting down fighters for a half hour smile.gif I don't think anyone here is out to do that.

Where would you draw the line then? Where does the exploit end? If a player kills less than 10 fighters? 20? Or 50? How can you determine that a score was not manipulated at least to some extent? If a player knew that by killing a few more fighters he became first in the ranking he'd probably do it intentionally!

Well, as long as we have a separate highscore table for the patched game I'll be fine. I trust players posting the score they actually got in the game, but I don't believe that they won't abuse exploits. Every single high score would always seem suspicious to other players.


--------------------
Exaar

user posted image The ultimate mod for SAIS. Download the full version here now!
*************Vote for the mod here!*************
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Hugo
Posted: Dec 6 2005, 01:19 PM


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I think a slight change in that fashion would be advisable for the next patch.

Perhaps a max buffer for points you get from fighters ?


--------------------
- Hugo

user posted image A complete SAIS mod, download it here !
.........:::::::::: Vote for this mod here ::::::::::........
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Shadowcat
Posted: Dec 6 2005, 02:04 PM


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QUOTE (Exaar @ Dec 7 2005, 01:09 AM)
Where would you draw the line then?

It's very simple to my way of thinking. If someone sits and kills fighters purely for the sake of increasing their score, they're over the line. If they don't do that, they're not.

If you don't purposefully try to increase your scores with this method, then I'm doubtful that the resulting scores will vary significantly between people with otherwise identical games.

But I'm happy to recategorise the score table after the patch if that's what people want.
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Hugo
Posted: Dec 7 2005, 06:12 PM


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QUOTE (Shadowcat)
If you don't purposefully try to increase your scores with this method, then I'm doubtful that the resulting scores will vary significantly between people with otherwise identical games.

I've had this one game where i encountered a Garthan fleet that had 5 carriers, another 3 and another 1. I had the cloak and the pvc. I wasn't trying to score high, but i did my best to take down all the ships with my current layout... and i eventually succeeded. But i tooks several minutes, it is needless to say the pvc was purposefully killing everything in sight and well those fighters just kept coming.

So we can't really draw a line to what's fair and what's not. Even without "cheating", luck has a lot to do with score. So those fighters CAN really make a difference in score, wheter you try or not.



--------------------
- Hugo

user posted image A complete SAIS mod, download it here !
.........:::::::::: Vote for this mod here ::::::::::........
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Shadowcat
Posted: Dec 13 2005, 11:07 AM


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Wow. I just got my best score (52,934) despite a huge penalty. No major quests, and I lost my fighter, but fortunately had a pretty hot collection of weaponry on the other ships. No Hyperdrive, no Bauble, and not getting the Zorg Helmsman until way too late all led to me being rather significantly over the time limit (to the tune of 4,000 points), so had I handled things better and got the Helmsman faster, it would have been close to a 57,000 point game!
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Shadowcat
Posted: Dec 14 2005, 02:01 AM


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Damn. Now I've gone and done the exact same thing on the small map. My new best score (22,156) with a 4,000 point late penalty.

What really makes me upset is that I messed up what might have been a chart-topper. A Primordious game on the small map where I immediately picked up a Hyperdrive, Temporal Flux Shield, Reactionless Thruster, and Tachyon Ray Gun. I screwed it up royally in combat :( No computer for the Ray Gun left me too weak against the Garthan fighters when I decided to go up against their carriers without any fighter of my own ('only' the Damocles in support). There was some swearing after that game, believe you me.

*big big sigh*
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NihiliX
Posted: Dec 22 2005, 05:24 PM


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OK, gentlebeings, we have a patch. And said patch has some scoring implications...

to wit:

Changes in Version 1.1
----------------------

new: scoring based on nebula/difficulty level

fix: possible to get infinite score by milking carriers

(a few others that influence score less directly - two vacuum collapsers, no lifeforms on frozen planets, but the two above are the biggies)

The first was part of SAIS scoring - one of the reasons I started playing WW in full-nebula mode (the other being it shows up more black holes - I mean, it's 100 for finding them, but 500 for exploring them, so show me more holes that I might never find, hey!)

The second would be Finger's answer to whether Garthan Carrier Milking was a feature or a bug...

I know that Fingers is talking about another patch, so it's not like this will be the be-all, end-all patch. But the scoring changes have some implications for high scores. Would you want to have a separate high-score board for each patch that changed scoring? Or a 'current' high-score board, with the past versions saved as legacy?

I think we should keep in mind that patches will generally decrease as time goes on. Much as I respect the work I and the other Fearless Testers did, the Shrapnel test crew, and the Eelies themselves, you're gonna find a lot more when the game actually gets released into the wild. (And unlike some game compainies, with waaaay more buxx than Digital Eel, they didn't give us a 'worthless beta on sale, be a nice chap and finish our testing' release.)



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Hugo
Posted: Dec 22 2005, 08:13 PM


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QUOTE (Nihilix)
... you're gonna find a lot more when the game actually gets released into the wild.

It hasn't already?


--------------------
- Hugo

user posted image A complete SAIS mod, download it here !
.........:::::::::: Vote for this mod here ::::::::::........
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Fingers
Posted: Dec 22 2005, 08:26 PM


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It is true that this patch will affect the high scores. Generally your scores will be lower than before as you only get "full" points with the highest amount of nebula and enemies. Leaving this out of the 1.0 release was an unfortunate slip-up on my part, I simply forgot to put it in.

The carrier milking wasn't a bug as such, but it was easy to exploit so we felt it should be fixed. The point in another thread about the fighters adding to the reward for killing a carrier (in a strongly carrier-based mod) is somewhat valid, but if your goal is to take out the carrier then rewarding you less for doing it quickly (before many fighters come out) doesn't make much sense.
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