For months now, I have unsuccessfully been trying to come up with ideas for Faces I could create.
Either they're hopelessly bland, some type of Sylhouette clone (the closest thing to a babyface I have at the moment), or simply are characters I'm not interested in RPing for.

Out of exasperation, I've tried to think of real wrestling Faces I'd be interested in cloning... as opposed to trying to come up with something fresh and original.
Failed again, I'm not interested in RPing for a face "Virile Guy" Randy Feral, Dicky "The Hydra" Ironclad, Rhett "The Assassin" Sharp, Principe Enygma Jr, and so on.


Now, sticking to RPing heels isn't inherently bad, but you do miss out on half of the e-w experience.
And, since heels are so popular, I can't imagine that a Face character hangs around feudless for very long.


So far, the only thing that has "worked" for me, face-wise, is Sylhouette.
And I put worked in quotation marks because technically she's a tweener (a face personality that wishes she could be a heel, if you will).
The part that works is that, really, anything I wrote in her app doesn't really apply anymore, and she evolves with every flash. Despite an app that was very lengthy in terms of background, it has all been ignored in flashes, keeping only the "idolizing scheming heels" part and slowly building from there from flash to flash.

I imagine I could do the same for a "real" face character... but what fedhead would accept a character that has a name, a few moves, but no defined personality yet? Just a note that says "we'll see where he/she goes."



And the part that didn't work with Sylhouette, at least so far... is that when I decided she'd make a more entertaining Gamma Ray foil as a face-ish character, I initially decided I'd model her personality on someone I knew:
A foreign exchange student from Norway that stayed a year with my parents when she was 16 - She has a driven competitive edge to her, but is also adorably cute as a button, funny, mischievous, constantly giggling... she has the ability to instantly make you feel like she's your adopted little sister, and ended up winning the prestigious "most popular student" award in the Canadian school she attended.
I figured that was perfect for Sylhouette since that Norwegian student mentioned above, no matter what she did, you'd forgive her instantly because of how she'd laugh with you and her genuine personality.
However... it took me about half a second to discover that it doesn't translate at all to a purely literary format.
At best, I can inspire myself from that, but it must all be changed/adapted to the written format.


To me, it just seems like getting a face over in a purely written format is near-impossible. 'Course, I've seen it done before, but I feel like I'd never be able to do it with my own meager abilities.
I have plenty of ideas for heel characters (finding a fed that I'm interested in bringing the character to AND has a open spot for a heel is another story altogether), but I've got absolutely nothing when it comes to faces.


Anyways, just wondered if you veterans out there had any tips for creating and/or RPing a compelling face.










I'll stop writing now before I ramble on an on.
Oops, too late.

In the past I predominantly handled heels but the last few characters I've done have been faces because it's a good challenge and it's fun when it's a challenge. It forces you to be more creative in a way. I've tooken a few different approaches to making up the characters recently.

In OMGW with Al Tonka I used a stereotype (drunk Native American) to start with and just built it up from there (started out as a purely comedic character, developed to somewhere between comedy and serious, sort of replacing his addiction to alcohol with an addiction for justice/revenge towards the end).

In WP-1 with Los Perros Diminutos, which I didn't get to handle too long because the fed closed early, I tried to think of a tag team that would always be underdogs, and taking the "dog" portion of underdogs literally I guess, I thought of toy breeds of dogs (pug dogs and chihuahuas) and made really short/small luchadores who have toy dog gimmicks. I think it works on a few levels, children and women would like them because of the toy dog gimmicks, and their gimmicks are so non-threatening and their sizes so small they would always be the underdogs against all the super deadly heel characters out there.

And now in HUGE with Antonio Morientes I'm starting with the idea of a very Catholic guy from Spain who is obsessed with Real Madrid (soccer team) and Amuro Balsa, an older character of mine who was from Spain as well and since there aren't too many characters from Spain in e-w, he's treated like a patron saint of sorts for Spanish characters in my head haha. But part of the deal is to try and do a religious character without it being evil since almost all religious characters are evil in e-w. But we'll have to see how he developes.

But I think what I'm getting at is start with some concept, a wrestling stereotype, some other stereotype, or think of something you or others enjoy and buid something off of that. Just start with a concept, fill it out with some moves and just let it develope how it developes.

I also think if you are more comfortable, or only comfortable or only have fun handling heel characters, just handle heel characters! E-w is fairly "gray" area in terms of faces/heels for quite a while so in the end it is more about what you enjoy doing with your spare time for a hobby. Not sure if ANY of this is really helpful but ah.. have fun?!

The best tips I can give for playing a face are as follows.

- Don't do too much trash talking versus other faces.

- Shy away from foreign objects.

- Don't do overly violent things in your strats, exceptions being against monster heels and other heels AFTER taking a good beatdown yourself.

- Have him interact with the fans in a positive way (nothing wrong with a "cheap pop"...

There's many more, but the bottom line really is that there's no trick to being a face. Just don't be overtly hostile, cheat, steal, etc and you'll be fine. Mind you, it's okay to do some of these things, but do too many and you'll be a FINO (face in name only).

I actually like handling faces since I think they can be a good deal more dynamic to write for than heels, when done right. You get to add more personal conflict when it comes to faces than to heels [whose only real conflict is with other than themselves, for the most part].

With City Jack, I've had him battle issues on inadequacy after being beaten, not being taken seriously because of his demeanor in the ring and his physique, and sometimes just taking things too far with other wrestlers [the jigs and all can be seen as upstaging the other]. I've also had about 10 trillion injury angles with CJ - it works, damnit! Plus, now with him running with the ultra-serious tag partner Tin Can Rust, there's some conflict in styles within the face tag team.

With Macht Kraftwerk, sort of the same thing - had him battling demeans of injurying a bunch of wrestlers from before. Also, while in EMWC, there was always the angle of him being a by-the-book wrestler in a semi-garbage wrestling federation. Now I've got him trying to come back from a back injury a half-decade ago and battling against a supergroup [though, last one just happened, but it's fun!].

Personally, the best way to handle a face is to have him have some defects that create some inner conflicts and then just let the angles sort of develop externally from there. Faces don't have to be ultra-dynamic - they just have be a good foil for a heel. Finding the right heel to go against is the key.

Another idea is flipping the heel roles to the face - so someone you'd normally think to fit a heel type [snobbish character, monster, selfish, looks-oriented, etc], try to make him a face. It's not that hard to think about, but could be a challenge to get over [again, the right foil is important]... but if you're accustomed to handling heels, it may be the way to go.

The biggest thing, I think, that defines a face character is sympathy. If people feel bad for the character, they're going to like them. As long as they don't whine too much, anyway.

Faces are much harder than heels, honestly.

If you look at the work of Jackson Kinkaid I think you'll see that what Mike W. does is take a tough, gritty guy and gives him a soft spot for his kid. Then he just fucks the guy over in every way imaginable. lol Jackson can be upset and he can complain, but because he's not a whiner he's one of the best faces of all time, in my opinion.

That's simplifying it quite a bit, but that's the best way to get started. Keep it simple. Create an interesting character, give them something that puts them at a disadvantage and have them overcome it.

-Mike

Mind you, it helps if you have a willing heel to play off of. And sometimes, that can be harder than it looks, especially when some folks are unwilling to look bad at anything. <_< :blink: :(

If heels are larger than life, out of control, ego running wild...than a face has to be slightly more down to Earth with a hint of humbleness or at the bare minimum, some moral values.

I've played both sides of heel and face with Juan Vasquez and Edwin Lopez and while it's a lot easier to write for a heel, it's a lot more rewarding when you can pull off a convincing face.

A successful face usually has some sort of obstacle to overcome, as to be able to relate to others on some level and while he can have an ego, he should also have a certain level of respect or humbleness in his character that doesn't make him seem like a total jerk. He shouldn't look to intentionally inflict misery or to be the one that throws the first punch. He shouldn't treat wrestling as some playground for his perverse amusement. He can be flawed like a heel, but unlike the heel, he should recognize these traits as flaws.

I suppose the main difference between a heel and a face is self-awareness. A heel will do wrong, see nothing wrong with the wrong that he's done and be unapologetic about it. A face has the capacity to do wrong, but he also has the capacity to see that it's wrong and should have remorse.

But that's just my $.02

Thanks for all the wise words, guys!
Some really helpful stuff, there.
I'm still hopelessly clueless, but that may simply be because I'm a whiny, cowardly douche bag cheat in real life and just can't relate to facekin.

;)

DUDE!!! If his finisher is named "the Inquistion," I'll mark big time!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

That actually works for faces and heels, I think.
But having already tried to brainstorm with that method (or similar), I know it doesn't work well for me.
My main obstacle being that I can't relate to most stereotypes I think about. Like, say, the good ole wrestling cowboy, for instance. Whether it's a guy saddles up in the Canadian prairies or down in Texas, the whole culture is so alien to me I could never portray it properly.
Come to think of it, just about any American sub-culture is alien to me.
If I tried to RP a wrestling Mormon from Utah, the only reaction I'd get are questions like "Have you ever even step foot in Utah?"
Then I'd shamefully answer "no."

Those are just examples, of course, but for some reason, I have not found a stereotype I feel I could tackle... yet.

This right there just shows how big of an idiot I really am.
I took a face archetype and perverted it to create a heel: Gamma Ray.
It didn't even occur to me to try it the other way around.

So, think of a natural heel, flip it around and give him some inner conflict.

Sounds easy enough.

Ok, let's take Chester. With a name like Chester, the guy can only be a face, it sounds so non-threatening and sympathetic.
Alright.
So under normal circumstances, Chester would be a heel because... lessee... he's a child molester. And his inner conflict is that he's trying real hard to... molest children less frequently.
Are you sure your tip works? 'Cause honestly, I'm having a real hard time feeling any sympathy whatsoever for Chester.

I keed, I keed!
I'm just being a [BLEEP], the pointer actually makes a lot of sense.

You know, I wonder if I could ever actually do this.

I love humiliating and/or degrading Gamma Ray every once in a while, especially if it's not gratuitous and benefits a face in some way. But I don't know if I could do it to a face.
Gamma Ray is an a-hole, so anytime he gets f*ed, he deserved if for being an a-hole.
But to f* up an innocent face? That's just mean!

I could easily imagine Sylhouette backing out of a parking spot in the Gamma-Mobile and accidentally roll over Gamma Ray's foot.
That'd be funny.

But I could never have Gamma Ray roll over Sylhouette's foot with the Gamma-Mobile! Poor little Sylhouette! I could never do that! It's cruel and inhumane!


Yet, I admit that it makes a lot of sense. Any sadistic handler can generate a lot of sympathy for his character by mercilessly torturing the heck out of it.

Hhmmm.


Jackson Kinkaid being the best heel is only temporary.

After my former POW, orphan wrestler with leprosy debuts, everyone will forget Kinkaid! And that character will debut as soon as he purges the five consecutive life-sentences he's wrongfully been imprisoned for, due to his wife's murder by a one-legged man.
For this guy still has hope. God himself sent him a heavenly message, and that alone keeps him going, despite the fact that the divine message was "don't bother."

Yeah... now we're talkin'





Seriously, though. You guys are pretty darn helpful.
If I somehow manage to come up with a viable face one day, it'll probably be thanks to all of your help!

If you ever do handle the POW, orphan, with leprosy and 5 consecutive life sentences lemme know cause I have a great idea for a one-legged murderer heel. :D

-Mike

This MUST happen!

That can't possibly be that common.
Even for purely selfish purposes it doesn't work - after all, a wrestling character is only as great as his nemesis, and if the nemesis looks pathetic, the "unwilling" looks pathetic by association.
Whether the character is a face or a heel, the character didn't accomplish much of anything if it didn't look like it was tough as heel to accomplish.

Seriously, RPing a heel isn't rocket science.
With the exception of the monster heel, which serves a different purpose, the heel's role has always been to make the face look better than he is, even when he wins.
And then, while the monster heel is meant to inspire fear, he should still look less cool than the face, and look like he has less courage, resolve, determination and heart than the face.

Anyways, heels are another topic altogether.

But I agree, RPing a face already seems tough enough as it is to me... being forced to work off a heel that doesn't know his/her role must make it entirely impossible.

It's a work in progress.
Unless someone opens a fed for inmates, I'm not sure he could work anywhere.

But if they DO! The one legged murderer makes even more sense. :)

-Mike

Dead Uncle Remus Wrestling is clearly the place for this to happen.

Not necessarily. A heel's job is to make life tough for the wrestler, but he doesn't NEED to be the face's main focus. Heels can serve as the obstacle in the way of a face's goal and not the actual goal. I've had plenty of situations where a heel handler just dropped off the face of the earth and I had to carry the feud myself. Instead of focusing on the absentee heel, you focus on the face needing to prove something to himself or having to overcome self doubt or any other sort of internal struggle.

I hope that makes sense.

Anyhow, playing a face isn't necessarily THAT difficult as long as you know what you want out of that character(Personal/emotional fulfillment? Righting wrongs? Honor? Glory? Justice?).

A few random comments about the thread:

* The Spanish Catholic? His finisher needs to be a Crucifix

* My own $0.11 on the matter- heels are easier to rp. They tend to be more aggressive (the typical feud starts with the heel doing something to cause the face to go after them), so they end up setting the tone of most angles. Faces generally are more reactive.

* As for ideas on how to roleplays faces? Look at movies, tv shows, books- watch your favorite characters in any of those formats. Figure out why you like those characters, and base a wrestler on those ideas. If you like the character, you can probably write them in a way that others will like them.

* I'm not quite in agreement with Ramna. I don't think the fans need to feel sympathy for the face, but they need to feel empathy. If you're always going for sympathy, you end up always writing as the underdog role. Faces don't always have to be the underdog.

* And if you want a challenge? Take that POW with leporsy and wrongfully accused of five murders- and make him a heel.

Hmm, I try and add empathy to all my characters. :)

If you can't understand the motivations of a heel they're less effective. So I say sympathy, though empathy should be there too. To me if a character isn't sympathetic then they're edging into tweener territory.

I guess it depends on how sympathetic you mean. To me, it doesn't necessarily mean a sob story, but like if the good, justice loving face gets beat up by the nasty, mean heel... I think that's sympathy enough to fulfill what I mean. Hehe.

-Mike

I just add [HUGE FACE POP!] into all my oncards.

LMAO

That definitely helps.

-Mike

What she says is true. Most e-wrestling heels today are all like Triple-H. They never lose their cool, they never back up, the never show fear, they're ruthless and brave. Everybody wants to be the cool heel with no weaknesses. Hell, if you ever read the strengths and weaknesses for most e-wrestlers you see how common the problem is. Here's an example of how some apps will address strengths and weaknesses.

STRENGTH:

Versatility: Can wrestle any style of match from lucha libre to power and look great at it he's a wrestling natural.

WEAKNESS:

Strength: While exceptionally strong for a man his size, wrestler X will struggle a little bit picking up 500 lbers. He's done it on occasion, but he can't just flip them over.

That's the way we draft and write e-wrestling characters these days. So it makes it even tougher for the face because there's no traction to get a hold of. There's no way to exploit the weakness.

I used to do this with Shadoe Rage, but since I've started writing him as an old school heel who everybody except him thinks is crazy and reacts as such it's been pure joy writing and I think he's been made better for it. We need more off colour heels with weaknesses. :)

Nah..superman is boring, no matter what genre he's written in.

Any heel that I handle has significant drawbacks...

Rick Marley is a self centered jerk who's straight up scared of some other characters. He's only 215 lbs, so he can easily pick up 500 pounders...with a fork lift.

The Spectre is nuts...prone to DQ's, entirely too interested in playing mind games with people (even more than winning matches)...

IMO more interesting characters are made more interesting by their flaws...when they don't have any they look cookie cutter.

Some so-called "faces" fall into this trap too, unfortunately. There's got to be give and take, there's got to be compromise. The heel should get his just desserts at the end but at the same time, he shouldn't be shrugged off again and again if he's trying to be nefarious in the first place!

No one wants to deal with a constant no-seller, be it face or heel.

Mike made a point about faces being reactive. And it can be tough when it seems it's more a case of Heel #1 wants to prove he's a bigger badass than & with Heel #2 instead of letting a Face react to them.

Unfortunately, that seems to be another issue entirely.

That's strange...
I'm not privy to the fedhead craft, but with all the FAQs that stress "please put weaknesses that aren't actual strengths in disguise," I would have imagined that fedheads would ask the handler to re-work his/her app a little to include actual weaknesses.

A flawless character, face or heel, makes for a snoozefest of a character - and it's asking a lot of a match writer to come up with an entertaining match when the only weakness to exploit is "could weaken a little after the 10th chairshot."


Anyways, that's an entirely different topic altogether.




Alright... maybe you guys can help me with the following embryonic character I've been trying to create.
At this point, it could be a man or woman, it doesn't matter.

Basically, it's a character from a remote village in Chiapas, Mexico (or possibly Guatemala) of pure Mayan heritage. This character wants to essentially resurrect pre-Columbian Mayan ways, and save what's left of his people's culture - (s)he means to achieve this goal by becoming the world's best wrestler (thus making his cultural heritage known via fame).
And, while strong and thick, the Mayan body-type would restrict his height to no more than 6'0"-6'1" as a man, shorter still as a woman.
Despite hailing from Mexico, the character can't be a Lucha, as Lucha Libre is a strong part of current Mexican culture, in opposition to pre-Columbian Maya. So I figure the character possibly could have started out as a kickboxer, and started wrestling after moving to another country, like the US.
In order to be eventually considered the best, he'd be very unlikely to cheat.

So far, sounds like a fairly straightforward face.

Where it gets trickier, is the pre-Columbian Maya culture revival.
Many aspects of it, especially rituals, are pretty gruesome and blood-centric. While human sacrifice is obviously out of the question, if there's a tasteful way of portraying that metaphorically, it can be done.
Don't want to go into too much detail, but Mayan Cosmology and various beliefs and rituals are so alien, it'd be easier to go the heel way, even if the character would be unlikely to cheat.
Actively seeking the blood of worthy foes, among other things, make it hard to seem face-ish.
I couldn't portray a cowboy, but I've visited so many Mayan archeological sites and have so many books on them that I think I could do a decent job with it, despite the fact I'd have to be pretty liberal with most of it to create better angles and/or to not completely gross out anyone - Really, who wants to see a wrestler cut his/her genitalia in order to gain the favors of a god for an upcoming match?


I'm kinda stuck because the character isn't a true heel, and is a pretty tough sell as a face - and I don't want to make a tweener.

Even if I stick it with a goofy ethnologist manager to explain WTF the character is doing and why in an entertaining way, it's still a tough sell.

While I would have been interested in RPing such a character...
- I don't know how to make a proper heel or face out of it.
- I'm afraid the whole concept is so alien it wouldn't work in e-wrestling.

For a visual idea of what an entrance costume would look like:



It's no problem if I can't bring the idea to fruition as I have other ideas kickin' round, but I would enjoy being able to pull off something that works with this concept.
I just don't know how I can do it.

I tend to play faces...I'm just too nice of a guy, I suppose. My method is fairly simple. Be a bump machine in the ring that puts over other wrestlers. The heels will often perform some of the most vicious moves and that puts my guy over if he can come back. Be willing to take chances in and out of the ring for the almighty win. That gives the impression of the guy who will do just about anything (short of cheating) to win. That's a cheap way to make him a fan favorite.

Hmmm, what else? Oh, I try to be funny...humor isn't just a heel thing, though I think some of the best humor is from heels. For a face, you can open yourself up for self-deprecating humor. Dark Soul sounds goth, but he looks like he came from an Aeropostale ad. And with his valet and narrations, I can make fun of him.

I've never tried to be a heel. I ran Dark Soul as a goth originally with little success so I guess he was somewhat of a heel, but I ran him toward tweener and then straight up good-guy, company-man face.

Is there a Mayan equivalent to counting coup? That way you're standing up to foes without letting their blood massively spill out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_coup

I would say one way to do it is for the character to cut the downed opponent and collect their blood somehow [via a towel... blood sample like on the show "Dexter"... or just getting the opponent's blood on the blood-stained knife]? Would work within the bounds of realism of juicing...

Speaking of creating characters...
Unlike most handlers, I am not a writer.
I have always used drawing/painting or music as means of expression, which is one of the reasons I e-wrestle; to try and add literary expression as another feather in my cap - that and improve my limited grasp of the English language.
(You might not be able to tell offhand, but I often need to have translation and thesaurus pages open just to write in the forum.)
While I've never had more than an introductory English course for beginners in my life, I'm getting adequate, by now.

Anyways, that's not the point -
Point is, I usually use either something visual or something musical as a starting point for creation.
Gamma Ray exists only because I was writing a song with the working title of "Gamma Ray" at the time.


And, while she's not used anywhere, a song inspired a heel female character of mine, designed to pretty much be Sylhouette's polar opposite. Don't know if I'll ever use her, but I might have her job at the next Angels & Amazons. At least, she'll have done something.
I just kinda hope no one ever used the song before, lol.


And there are other songs I'd love to use as entrance themes - just not sure what kind of characters they'd fit.
:huh:


First one is "I'm Alive" by Electric Light Orchestra, familiar to anyone who has been forced to watch Xanadu over and over again by a former girlfriend. I, of course, retaliated by making her watch the Star Wars trilogy, but that's another story.
ELO - I'm Alive
Despite a total lack of ass-kicking, the song totally kicks ass.
I dream of seeing a heel strut out to this.

I also think Beck - Gettochip Malfunction (Hell Yes Remix) would be awesome for a face. Unfortunately, I think the "geeky face" category is a little crowded, and I don't quite know what else would fit.

Yet another one is TV on the Radio - DLZ. But that may only be because I'm currently in the middle of a "TVotR totally rules" phase.
I expect that phase will end when the new Malajube album comes out next month.


If you have any ideas regarding these songs and are willing to share, please go ahead.
If you're already using some of these for a character, please tell me so I can scratch 'em off my to do list. (Or, if these songs would better fit a character of yours, or inspire a character you'd rather RP yourself).

Let me just step out onto the subject of heels for a second.

If you're playing a monster heel, why shouldn't you be brave and ruthless?

I mean, Alex Martinez is a cool guy. Eh firebomb chokeslams everybody and doesn't afraid of anything. :lol:

Of course, he has a massive "right knee is made of tissue paper" weakness, but yeah...seven foot tall monster heels shouldn't be cowardly. But along those same lines, not all heels need to follow a strict "lesser than the face" rule.

I mean, a heel like Ric Flair? He was on top of the NWA for God knows how long because not only was he a cheating bastard, but because he was one of the best wrestlers on the face of the planet. It just so happened that he was insecure as hell and surrounded himself with goons at all times. But to beat the man, you gotta beat the man. And Flair was indeed "the man".

In my mind, you can break heeldom into 3 tiers of Honky Tonk Man cowardly, Ric Flair cheatery, and Andre the Giant monsterdom.

Of course, every heel in e-wrestling somehow ended up being "Kevin Nash and Scott Hall in the nWo super duper awesome face can never hurt me ever"!

The key to being a good heel is to get your comuppance once in a while. Show some ass. You're just supposed to be a stepping stone towards getting the face over, anyway.

I mean, Caleb Temple was a great heel to read during his EMWC run, but around the time he set Adam Rogers on fire, stole Alex Martinez's wife, took Casey James' finger and blew up Jeff Matthews' wife without anyone putting a bullet in his head, it got sort of ridiculous.

But yeah...my $.02.

To my knowledge, there is no Mayan equivalent to "Counting Coup."
Which doesn't mean one can't be created - better to have something that makes for good angles/storytelling than faithful to what really was.
Especially since most of what is currently known of pre-Columbian Mayan culture is conjecture anyways.
(Yet, I'm still annoyed by all the inaccuracies in Mel Gibson's Apocalypto)

Prowess in battle was likely the most common form of social advancement (you're born a noble, but anyone can become a great war leader). It's commonly thought the headdress of a war leader would increase in size/intricacy with every successful campaign.

And some things I can't use.
The Mayans would avoid war at all costs if Venus (closely linked to an important war god) wasn't visible. Just wasn't done.
Fighting in the spring would also be a huge no-no. When the Spaniards realized the Mayas wouldn't fight in the spring, they were sure to capitalize.



But otherwise Mayan warfare was huge - some of the biggest cities in the world from 800 - 1,400 were Mayan, and cities could assemble truly gigantic armies to subjugate a rival neighbor.
Those on the losing end of a war would either die on the battlefield, or be sacrificed later (though probably not the conscripted warriors, who would have to return to the fields and work off the owed tributes).
Worthy foes would likely be sacrificed in a honorable way, unless said foe was an important rival noble, in which case he'd be humiliated as thoroughly as possible for as long as possible (18 years in a documented case) in order to display dominance over the rival.


blibblab is definitely on to part of my plan -
It pleases some gods to be offered blood, whether yours (from ear lobes, tongue or genitalia) or a worthy/important foe's.
Such a character would certainly collect the blood of vanquished foes, if they were worthy enough (jobbers are thus spared), in order to gain the favors of a god later on.
But I'd find reasons to not do it every time, otherwise, it gets repetitive and boring.

Somehow collecting blood and/or taking a rival's sacred item as spoils of war would be frequent, and can both be used for angles.
"Dexter," with BSG, is probably my favorite show, btw.

So collecting blood with a cloth/towel is good, since said cloth can later be ritually burned.

This Mayan character screams heel to me. With blood rituals and a my culture is greater than yours and using wrestling to gain fame it is all natural heel stuff. S/he doesn't need to cheat to get over because that is part of the innate superiority complex, though, maybe s/he would cheat without reservation if the win were at stake.

See most of these bad knee weaknesses aren't real weaknesses because if his right knee really is tissue paper will he submit the minute anybody puts a lock on it? Does it go out on him in matches so that he can't lift people or move? Is he slow getting off the mat and easy to knock down because he has a terrible base?

If these aren't the case then I'd argue that it's really a weakness.

And monster heels all have flaws. They either aren't bright or are bullies who will actually get scared at the right person coming at them. They lack some kind of wrestling ability. They cannot handle resistance. Monster heels usually aren't at the top of the card for long. They're usually only good until they are beaten by the uberface and their weakness is exposed.

Too many people create no real weaknesses in their monster heels. All monster heels have one, though.

You know if you wanna give the Mayan a real shot... Make it a female and bring me an app. (the men's division is a little crowded) Compared to Talia Wichzini and Myra Benedict, as long as you don't try to pry someone's still beating heard from their chest you'll probably be able to stay face.

We haven't had a match yet that didn't involve somebody getting bloody. :) Collecting blood and seeking out worthy opposition doesn't seem all that heel-ish in Jisatsu. Especially if you push the idea of what an honor it is and how it's a respect thing.

It really sounds like it could be an interesting character.

Also... I'm Alive by ELO would be AWESOME heel music. I really could picture the heel coming out to it and the whole schtick would just be taunting the audience with it.

-Mike

Sometimes a character is liked enough by other handlers they end up kind of switching their intended roles.

Preston Mayfield should be a heel but, damn it, Moze and others have ended up blurring his line enough to where he could be a pathetic face... until the drugs, booze and wanton sex with anything that exists comes into play.

I take it you haven't read too many Alex Martinez matches? :P

I'd attribute 99% of all losses that I've read that character suffered was a direct result of "Knee goes out on him as he's going for his finisher and the other guy capitalizes on it". It really IS a weakness. Well...that and I suppose smarter people outsmarted him a lot of the time.

As far as strengths and weaknesses go in actual e-w, I agree that a lot of them are BS. I mean, how often do we see a strength listed as a weakness?

Strength: 1. He's violent as hell and doesn't give a damn about hurting people.

Weaknesses: 1. He's violent as hell and doesn't give a damn about hurting people...so it leads to a lot of DQs.


But you know...a monster heel like Brock Lesnar was the type of heel that won his matches cleanly by simply kicking the face's ass. He was a bully too, but I think the only time he ever backed down was when he was confronted by The Undertaker...who EVERYONE is afraid of. I mean, if he was a e-w character, his weakness would be something like:

1. Wrestling ability- Olympic gold medalists can out-wrestle him.
2. Agility- He's not able to complete shooting star presses if the opponent is 20 feet away.
3. Strength- He's too strong, so sometimes he tosses the wrestlers too far away for immediate pins.

I guess it's kind of a blessing that there's very few handlers out there that can actually pull off that sort of character. :beer:

And here, I was under the impression the character would irremediably be a heel, which is OK.
But, true enough, if you push the honor and respect element enough, especially in a Japanese environment, the character would been seen a weird, certainly dangerous, but inherently good.
The only problem is... I know absolutely Jack Squat about puroresu.

Strange since, to be sure the character wouldn't be Lucha, I considered having him/her learn the craft in Japan.
Especially since the finisher must be a kick.
There's a Cho'lti' (one of the Mayan languages) word that means "to kill with the feet" that sounds perfect: Ahaxtequi (the "x" is pronounced "sh")

Though I didn't mention it, the gimmick works equally well for a women, there is archeological evidence of full-time female warriors in the Mayan Highlands, even if it's a small minority.

In any case, I'll check out PJG.
My only worry is that in environment where blood is commonplace, the character's near-obsession with blood means a lot less.
(I'm a little old-school in the sense that I think blood in a wrestling match should be a rarity so that it has more meaning when there is some)



And ELO "I'm Alive"...
I know, right? The song is so filled with optimistic, squeaky clean, happy goodness that it just has to be used by a total bastard. It's begging for it.
It would get the same kind of reaction as it does when watching the turkey called Xanadu -
As the song kicks in to start the flick, Olivia Newton John bursts out from the world of fantastic mythology into the real world as a living muse, filled with utopic joy at finally getting the chance to walk the plane of the mortal man.
All the girls go "aaaawwww" or "awesome! rollerskates!" while men reach for the doggy bag they'll soon fill with their last three meals.
It's genius!




As for the monster heel.
Yes, his role is different from other heels. He inspires fear - his job is to makes fans wonder if the face can survive, not simply win, until the uber-face comes along to massively get over when he beats him.
The problem isn't the monster heel role itself, I think... but mostly, there seems to be way too many monster heels in e-w than there should be. In fact, there seems to be way too many big men period.
I've seen places where at least half the roster is 6'6" or taller.
What's wrong with the sneaky/cowardly heel, or the arrogant showboat?

Shay Bockmann and I were at that Wrestlemania, the one where Lesner missed his press. We were ground level and it was pretty interesting to see the fallout.

I feel compelled to use that weakness for a character.
It's too awesomely stupid!
:lol:

I recall that, in the old days, I would get everyone together in the feds I was in, and we would all submit fake apps on April Fools Day under fake names and addresses (UEW used a web form which made this TOO easy).

My entry had the following Strengths and Weaknesses:


STRENGTHS:
1. He is the best wrestler.

2. He never loses.

3. He takes no damage from anything.


WEAKNESSES:
1. Sometimes he does not beat the opponent with the first move and has to use another.

2. He is so great that noone wants to wrestle him.

3. Only has one elbow pad.



Back when I was dumb and thought they mattered, I worried about stuff like weaknesses. Then I realized that they were for portrayal only, and loosened up. My favorite wrestler to use (your good close personal friend Dr. Mal) actually has weaknesses that are significantly worse than his strengths. :-)

Monster heels may be tougher for a face to overcome, but a monster heel can be cowardly as well.

Case in point: On a Saturday Night's Main Event episode, Hogan defeats King Kong Bundy. Andre the Giant has been at ringside during the match. Hogan looks at Andre and dares him to get into the ring. Andre tells Hogan to forget it. Hogan turns to celebrate. Andre, upon seeing Hogan's back is turned, heads to the ring and attacks Hogan from behind.

That, folks, is a cowardly act.

Cowards do not have to beg off, run away from fights or look scared to death of an opponent to be cowards. Cowards attack from behind. Cowards go out to grab steel chairs when they can't put an opponent away with their own ability. Cowards don't want a fair fight, they want the odds stacked in their favor.

By definition, then, all heels are cowards.

Cowardly heels are technically heels who _exaggerate_ their cowardly ways. Monster heels do not exaggerate it, but they still commit acts from time to time that are the action of a coward.

If Alex Martinez attacked somebody from behind, he committed a cowardly act. He doesn't need to be scared of his opponent... all he needs to be is pissed off at his opponent that he decides he's going to jump the opponent when said opponent isn't prepared for it.

It's true that it would take more to get Martinez to break off his attack... but even Martinez would know that if the odds are too much against him, he'll have to back down and fight another day. He doesn't need to run away in fear, just look up, see the calvary coming, and then exit the ring.

I would imagine Martinez hasn't always been written that way, though. But that generally shows that people don't always understand how to write a monster heel.

As for Lesnar, he was being built up, so of course you couldn't have him back down right away. But when it comes time for him to move to bigger and better things, he better start attacking people from behind or other such acts, or he loses his heel appeal and is more likely to turn face.

Fans won't boo true bravery, after all.

Did you find Ultimate Thrasher's application or something?

TRHASHRE SRTART:

I WINED MATHCN NAD BEAETTED OTRHRE GUY!

Right, but like I said earlier, heels should also lack the moral code or remorse that a face would have in the face of committing acts of evil.

When I say "cowardly heel", I mean a sort of wimp that almost always cowers away and such who really is inferior to the face and has to cheat to gain an advantage.

When I say "monster heel", the dastardly deeds were implied, but monster heels on the whole, do have a certain quality of bravery and badassery that most other heels lack...but they're still scoundrels anyhow. I mean, most heels do fight dirty because they're ruthless and will do anything to win.

Maybe it's just easier to say that all heels are jerks. :chairbash: