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Title: Good CMLL


Phil Schneider - February 11, 2010 12:27 AM (GMT)
It seems like CMLL is picking it up quality wise lately, so let's find and talk about the hidden gems. Lets keep this Arena Mexico and Colieso and talk about Puebla other places.

Tim Evans - February 11, 2010 12:47 AM (GMT)
I liked the Mistico/Volador match from last week. Mostly cause Rudo Mistico was a sight to see and the crowd was red hot. There was also a pretty good Panther/Valiente/Metro vs Averno/Mephisto/Virus match from last weeks C3 show featuring lots of Panther/Virus mat work. I haven't watched the Sombra/Felino main from that show yet but I'm sure it's at least good.

Dylan - February 11, 2010 01:50 AM (GMT)
Links please.

Agree with you on Volador/Mistico Tim, though I was more impressed by Volador.

Phil Schneider - February 11, 2010 01:52 AM (GMT)
Blue Panther/Metro/Valiente v. Averno/Memphisto/Virus 2/2/10

Pt1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_nvmAscevg

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OJAUTMAW

Great match, Valiente and Virus and Panther and Averno have longish awesome mat sections, and everything moves from there. Metro looks great here too, he feels like a guy you want to see his entire 2010 run

Dylan - February 11, 2010 01:57 AM (GMT)
Mascara Dorada/Stuka Jr/El Metro vs. Sangre Azteca/Dragon Rojo/Misterioso, CMLL 1/9/10

Wouldn't be my top match, but this was pretty damn good. I thought this was paced really fucking well. The dive at the beginning of the second fall was great and I thought the crash and burn segment setting up the finish stretch was done really well.

Dylan - February 11, 2010 03:07 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Phil Schneider @ Feb 11 2010, 01:52 AM)
Blue Panther/Metro/Valiente v. Averno/Memphisto/Virus 2/2/10

Pt1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_nvmAscevg

Great match, Valiente and Virus and Panther and Averno have longish awesome mat sections, and everything moves from there. Metro looks great here too, he feels like a guy you want to see his entire 2010 run

This was an excellent match. Blue Panther is pretty much the Lucha mat king and he dominates here with a tremendous exchange with Averno who was no slouch himself. Some of their power and balance exchanges they have are unreal. I really thought the timing of the falls and lay out of this were great as everyone got a chance to shine in some capacity and nothing felt rushed. Late in the mach we get cool shit like Valiente hitting an insane double jump moonsault into the first row and a really organic feeling run of guys nearly finishing each other with submissions. The cutoff spots are great throughout including an awesome spot where Virus comes in a punts Panther as he's rolling Mephisto. The rudo control segment is also well done. Lots of memorable spots, great matwork, and a strong ebb and flow. Really a great match and I didn't even get into how awesome Metro was.

Mike - February 11, 2010 05:51 AM (GMT)
I'd say these two CMLL matches are better than anything to come out of IWRG this year.

Mascara Dorada/Stuka Jr/El Metro vs. Sangre Azteca/Dragon Rojo/Misterioso, CMLL 1/9/10

This was such a well put together title match - I doubt it'll fall out of my top 20 this year. They did an excellent job at making a lot of things feel meaningful. For example, during the opening mat exchange, both Stuka and Misterioso struggled to escape a hold. Also, thanks to the dive cut offs earlier, the actual dives felt important. The finishes were more intricate than usual and I like how the technico comeback was gradual, that's not something you usually see. Most of the big modern day CMLL trios/tags fall apart during the final fall, but this was done surprisingly well and never felt like slow motion, predictable New Japan junior wrestling.

As far as performances go, Stuka was almost on Valiente's level and Dorada has to be one of the most spectacular workers on the planet. Metro's improved and the rudos were all good, especially the underrated Sangre Azteca. Those were some huge monkey flip bumps.


Blue Panther/Metro/Valiente vs. Averno/Mephisto/Virus, CMLL 2/2/10

Averno vs Panther was on the verge of getting stale, so I was surprised at how much I enjoyed their exchange. If Valiente vs Virus was given more time in the first fall, it would have easily been the best part of the match. Valiente can do no wrong and he looked like the best wrestler in the world here. Like Dylan said, Virus cutting off Panther's roll with a stomp to the head was great. I'm not sure why he thought Metro was any good, though. Guy looked backyard-ish for the most part. Final fall was a lot weaker than the 1/9 trios, but obviously the matwork was a lot stronger.

Dylan - February 11, 2010 05:57 AM (GMT)
2/2 trios is neck and neck with Cerbero v. Diablo for my current MOTY

Ruggles - February 11, 2010 06:01 AM (GMT)
Mistico vs. Volador was probably the best Mistico singles match I have seen in some time, as Mistico's Rudo business was fresh and actually worked well in the current CMLL style of "do a move, play to the crowd, do a move, play to the crowd," but Mistico's hurracanranas still look like crap. They look especially awful compared to Volador's.

Graham Crackers - February 11, 2010 06:28 AM (GMT)
Anyone else having trouble with the video of the 2/2 trios. The third fall won't load and keeps giving me an error screen.

Phil Schneider - February 11, 2010 06:29 AM (GMT)
Here is the megaupload of the show

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OJAUTMAW

Graham Crackers - February 12, 2010 06:01 AM (GMT)
Thanks. The match is as good as it's hype. I think this is the best Panther has looked since 2008. It was nice to have the first fall feel like a first fall. The match seemed so much longer than your other modern CMLL matches but that may have just been because everyone got a decent share of time to showcase themselves.


Mascara Dorada/Stuka Jr/El Metro vs. Sangre Azteca/Dragon Rojo/Misterioso, CMLL 1/9/10

This was a lot of fun. I think this may be one of the best approaches to working a match in the modern CMLL style. Your tecnicos have spectacular offense, good selling, and good timing. Your rudos here have some good double/triple teams and know when to cut guys off. The mat exchanges in the first fall were solid and sold well rather than coming across as filler before they start going through their spots. Your comebacks were great and the third fall had some nice nearfalls which I don't usually like in my lucha but were well done here.

Tim Evans - February 14, 2010 01:11 AM (GMT)
Mistico vs Volador Jr. 2/12

This was longer and might be even better than the 1st one. Mistico has fully embraced his heel character. Volador did a great job doing dives and I kinda liked the finish although the ref almost blew it. Mistico took the belt back that he lost and got pelted with beer cans.

Porky/Strongman/Sombra vs Peste Negra 2/12

Not as good as the Puebla match but a real fun match. Negro Casas just knows how to make Strongman and Porky's offense look incredible. Only two falls but that was fine. Sombra looked good but he's kinda being wasted here.

Rob - February 19, 2010 11:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
I'm not sure why he thought Metro was any good, though. Guy looked backyard-ish for the most part.


FWIW, Metro is barely 3 years into the business. He seems to be pretty good for someone with that experience level. I'd like to see him kept in slower pace matches with more matwork/submissions rather than having him team with the flyers who he tries to keep up with. I forget where I read this but I remember reading he has a background as a pretty good amateur wrestler so it'd be neat to see him incorporate that into his style more. CMLL doesn't need another midcard flyer and with his size he really shouldn't be leaving his feet often. My guess is the gimmick doesn't last the year though.

Phil Schneider - March 10, 2010 01:14 AM (GMT)
Metro/Valiente/Stuka Jr. v. Ephesto/Vangellys/Memphisto 3/6

This wasn't much outside of dives, although the dives were spectacular. Valiente hits his quebrada as good as I have seen it, and Stuka Jr. hits a blind tope and gets monkey flipped off the ramp into the crowd. Enjoyable little spotfest.

Rob - March 10, 2010 04:17 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
Metro/Valiente/Stuka Jr. v. Ephesto/Vangellys/Memphisto 3/6


Wasn't a big fan of this. A Valiente Special less than 2 minutes into the match is too much even for me. And I'm beyond sick of Stuka's deliberate setup for his ringpost dive. The first couple of times were neat but everyone knows he is jumping backwards to the floor instead of splashing his opponent when he constantly sets it up the exact same way. Finishing spot looked painful for Valiente. These guys can do better.

Phil Schneider - March 11, 2010 03:23 AM (GMT)
Angel Del Oro/Angel Del Plata/Angel Azteca Jr. v. Razeil/Cancerbro/Nosfaratu 2/28

I really like the Angel trios, really graceful highflyers, nothing super fancy, but everything hit well. I haven't seen much of the rudos, but they were fun, big bruisers who hit their stuff well and have nice triple teams. The tapatia neckbreaker combo they finished the tercera caida with was especially nasty

Phil Schneider - March 21, 2010 02:41 AM (GMT)
Pequeno Rey de Aires 3/7/10

On a bit of a mini's kick in between NCAA tourney games. This was what you would expect, minis doing crazy spots. For that match it was fun, and Pequeno Violencia continued his awesome 2010. Fine way to spend 15 minutes

Tim Cooke - March 21, 2010 03:17 PM (GMT)
Which You Tube guy has the latest CMLL?

Phil Schneider - March 21, 2010 06:00 PM (GMT)
http://www.youtube.com/user/luchaLibreDeMexico

and

http://www.youtube.com/user/warriorsX2000

Are the two guys who upload lucha TV to youtube

Cubsfan posts Megaupload links on

http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/

Phil Schneider - March 24, 2010 08:22 AM (GMT)
Delta/Diamante/Guerrero Maya Jr. vs Dr. X/Hooligan/Nitro 3/20

This is the kind of match that CMLL still does well, young technicos doing crazy spots and solid bumping rudos to catch and beat folks down. Nitro's in and out one foot rana was damn crazy, and I loved the rudos catching the dives in the third fall and throwing the guys to the ground. Everyone should check this out, I can't imagine folks who like lucha not liking this.

Tim Evans - April 4, 2010 03:06 AM (GMT)
Man this board is pretty dead. Oh well

Arkangel de La Muerte/Euforia/Nosferatu vs Angel de Plata, Angel de Oro and Angel Azteca Jr. 3/30

These guys have the formula down pact. The Rudos were able to hide most of Oro and Plata's weaknesses. Loved the Arkangel/Azteca parts and the 2nd Caida dive fest. With that said, Azteca is way better than his partners and should be with guys like Valiente or Dorada. I'd love to see a tag team of Valiente and Azteca.

Phil Schneider - April 7, 2010 06:24 AM (GMT)
Hijo del Fantasma/Toscano/Valiente v. Euforia/Skándalo/Vangelis 3/21

Fun longish trios match. We get Valiente and Skandalo working the mat and some cool Hijo del Fantasman Euforia exchanges. Valiente also does some of his sweet flips and dives. Toscano and Vangelis kind of suck, so their exchanges blew, but this is worth checking out

WKO_Mike - April 7, 2010 06:46 AM (GMT)
Are the above two matches online?

Tim Evans - April 8, 2010 10:46 AM (GMT)
The last match is. Not sure about the match I talked about. Has last week's Cadena Tres been uploaded yet?

Tim Evans - April 11, 2010 02:29 AM (GMT)
Trios title match: Mascara Dorada, Stuka Jr., Metro vs Dragon Rojo, Sangre Azteca and Misterioso II 4/6

This match cemented that Dorada is the best guy in CMLL by far. Not just because of his crazy dives but the way he does them with almost no difficulty. He's really great. As for the match, All the guys did a good job, especially Metro and Misterisoso. Finally fall featured a dive train. Even Misterioso did one. And No Mike, it's not online yet.

WKO_Mike - April 12, 2010 02:00 PM (GMT)
Valiente vs Sangre Azteca, 4/10/10

Pretty disappointing and I'm not sure I'd even call it a good match. That said, there were a few spectacular spots... This had the best "drop kick to the leg while running ropes" spot I've seen. Also, Valiente's bullet tope was great.

Tim Evans - May 22, 2010 11:59 PM (GMT)
Arkangel De La Muerte vs Angel Azteca Jr. 5/7

This is a lightning match that aired tonight on LATV. OK match that was hurt by crappy editing. Azteca had a nice dive and I liked that Arkangel finished the match with Mr. Niebla's old finisher.

Phil Schneider - June 10, 2010 04:15 AM (GMT)
Virus v. Valiente 6/6

Fun seven minute match, cool mat exchanges, a neat tope by Valiente and a very cool reverse tapitia by Virus. Nothing extraordinary but worth checking out.

WKO_Mike - June 11, 2010 06:48 AM (GMT)
Yeah I agree, this was a fun, tightly worked little match. Virus wasn't as flashy as usual and didn't take any sick bumps, but I thought his offense was pretty brutal, moreso than usual. Even his simple throws, such as the one at the start, looked vicious. I've seen far better Valiente topes, but the one here was still pretty great. These two would be amazing in IWRG.

Tim Evans - July 21, 2010 03:11 AM (GMT)
Angel Azteca Jr, Angel De Oro and Angel De Plata vs Monsther, Oriental and Histeria 7/4

Good match from Arena Coliseo. Really liked the Monsther/Azteca parts of the match and Azteca doing a insane tope. And Monsther squashing that midget Quemonito like a bug was great too.

Phil Schneider - August 22, 2010 05:34 AM (GMT)
CMLL 8/13/10

Two great matches, pretty shocked at this quality from 2010 CMLL

Pierrothito/Demus 3:16/Pequeño Warrior vs Astral/Mascarita Dorada/Ultimo Dragoncito

Fucking with some of the better non IWRG stuff this year. Crazy minis match which gets some real extended time. Everyone in this was on their game, all three rudos were kicking ass with great triple teams and big bumps, the Technicos were all super spectacular. Astral is a guy I had no real memory of seeing before, but he was totally great, Dorada will always do three things that will blow your mind. Just super.

Jushin Liger v. La Sombra

Really nice long singles match, had a little awkardness because Sombra is still green, but Liger was working super hard. We even got a big Liger plancha, some nasty brainbusters a big Superplex. Sombra had a great looking bullet tope. Well worth checking out.

Phil Schneider - August 22, 2010 07:10 AM (GMT)
Mini Cibernetico 8/10

Fun stuff, Demus 3:16 is blast in this, we also get a huge performance by Cisne who does a bunch of crazy spots and dives. Really fun performance by Pequeno Nitro

WKO_Mike - August 22, 2010 03:59 PM (GMT)
Mascarita Dorada/Astral/Ultimo Dragoncito vs Demus 3:16/Pequeño Pierroth/Pequeño Black Warrior, CMLL 8/13/10

If this had a few minutes of high-end matwork at the start, it'd be a serious match of the year candidate. It's still really fucking good though. Dorada was at his absolute best and as a result we were treated to a number of spectacular spots. Match had enough build and rudos weren't just there to catch midgets, so this never felt robotic like one of those Mistico workrate mainevents. Rudo section was excellent.

Phil Schneider - August 23, 2010 06:06 PM (GMT)
Diamante, Fabián el Gitano, Metro v. Cancerbero, Raziel, Virus 8/17/10

Fun trios match which gets a little time. Of course Virus is fun, but I liked all the other guys in this too, Cancerbero takes a really nice monkey flip, Diamante hits a Space Flying Tiger Drop. Nothing off the charts, but pretty fun.

Phil Schneider - August 23, 2010 06:53 PM (GMT)
2nd Minis Cibernetico 8/17/10

I liked this better then the first one. We had a fun opening section with all the lesser known technico minis hitting some flashy shit. Then it basically breaks down into a tag with Mini Black Warrior/Pierrothcito v. Ultimo Dragoncito/Bam Bam which was really good, we then get a long singles showdown between Bam Bam and Pierrothcito which was pretty great. Pierrothictos running neck crank submission is awesome.

Phil Schneider - September 9, 2010 01:40 AM (GMT)
Pierrothcito v. Demus 3:16-Winner gets to be a big boy 8/24

This was pretty great, we actually get some matwork to start which was a treat in current Arena Mexico. Then its gets to be a pretty great brawl, there was an almost Frye v. Takayama punch exchange and then we get sweet blood. It was totally what I was hoping for

WKO_Mike - September 9, 2010 05:17 AM (GMT)
Pierrothcito v. Demus 3:16

On first viewing I'd say this is a strong match of the year candidate. Second fall and parts of the third had some really impactful offense. Everything connected with a thud and it felt like you were watching the Mexican version of Sasaki vs Kawada. During the final few minutes, the match turned into a great brawl. Loved the Frye/Takayama spot and the finish.


Tim Evans - September 12, 2010 02:26 AM (GMT)
Mascara Dorada vs Negro Casas 9/7

Pretty much the Negro Casas show as he was awesome here. Cutting off Dorada's offense and selling great. First two falls were kinda rushed but the 3rd one was nice. Dorada's Sunset Flip finish was insane. He really is CMLL's next young technico.

Phil Schneider - September 15, 2010 08:30 PM (GMT)
Dorada v. Casas really didn't do a ton for me, quick first two falls, acceptible third fall. Casas is fun but this wouldn't make a top 100 for 2010 and this year has kind of sucked




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