Character Help, For my story

if your style is like that of Stephanie Meyer, then i can't say i'll enjoy what you write. i read a few of her books, and IMO, her writing style was awful.

What I mean is a first person view story, told from a character with an innocent view of what is happening around him/her. That way, the reader experiences the events as if they themselves are in the unfolding scenes. It's hard to do when so many new supernatural things are happening around a HUGE group of average kids too, so i just stuck myself in one of their shoes.

Apparently, on this level, she and I are very similar. I'm not an English graduate, but... I dunno. I liked her books more so for the... discovery aspect that I mentioned above. My best example: the figure that you, the reader and you, the character who's telling the story think something is off. The said "off" things had dropped hints since page one, but only being able to find such allusions after reading the book a few times through.

....that, is the kind of book I'm trying to write.

This post has been edited by Kaitou on Aug 2 2008, 02:40 PM

Ever hear of a site called http://www.tvtropes.org? Well, it is now your new best friend.

You will fucking study this site FOREVER, as it is a wonderful tool for authors. Don't let the name fool you, it's about all media.

I'd start here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Twilight

And here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PurpleProse


Edit: It's time for quotes from the wiki.

These are only some of the mistakes (And the after effects of them) she's made. (Also, all of those terms like "Bishie Sparkle" or "cool car" have their own pages, which link to media which contain them. Hell, the list on the page of Mary Sues is fucking hilarious.)

This post has been edited by Grimnir on Aug 2 2008, 05:32 PM

So let me tell you why first person narratives make bad books. You've got a character that you really identify with and you're forcing everyone else to see the world through their eyes but the thing is only you identify with her. A small percentage of people will but that's it. So the only way to fix that problem is by making the character so vague and ambiguous it could describe anyone; then it loses its spice. In short, first person narratives fucking suck. It's why Poe and Lovecraft are boring, it's why I, Jedi was a shit Star Wars novel and it's why I got bored of every first person narrative book ever.

Even if you have a limited cast in third person omniscient, you can use what's called character development to allow readers to grow with them and ultimately identify with them, maybe not 100%, but by presenting humanlike decisions and things you can.

Shrap:

...XDD!!! Those parts do bug me a bit. However, I still admire her for her home-grown roots. Hell, just a few years ago, she was just a Mormon housewife. Her series in general doesn't really... pull to me that much. Every book in the series is, "OMG, BELLA'S GONNA DIE CAUSE SHE HAS BAD LUCK AND IS A KLUTZ.".... and is somehow changed a little by adding things like heartbreak or rabid "bad" vampires. I just like Edward because I identify with him on a very base level. Debussy?- check Pale?- check Vovlo?- check

Trevlec:

...huh. never thought of it like that. That is the kind of advice I'm really looking for! Thanks!

Would it help if a chapter or section is written by one character, and then switch to another when the scene can better be told by someone else?-- or just third person limited like you said?

No it would not. The sequel to Magic or Madness (great book) was written in that fashion and it bombed.

Also, STOP CALLING ME "Trevlec". It's TrevlAc. With an -a- damnit!

Ah.Sorry 'bout that. One of my random characters for something I was working on a while ago was "Tarek", so I get confused easily.

He was a blonde too!... but a lot younger. Eleven-twelve-ish younger.

So.. third person limited? Is that when there isn't any "I", but it's still centered around a few people?

Sorry for all of my dumb questions and the like, but it's really helping me.

:3

<name> his hers he she they <name> etc

Personally, I fucking love the first person when it's used right. Like Stephen King's Bag of Bones or somesuch.

But I suppose that comes with being an infowhore on my part. When I see a protagonist, I want to know everything that they're thinking, as well as everything they do or everything that happens to them and how they react to it from their perspective. By figuring out how they work as a person and a mind, I end up connecting with said character more than I possibly could connect to a character in the third person. But again, that's just me. You can't write a book in first person JUST to please the few who can connect with the character or enjoy it. You'd lose out on a major crowd if you did.

This post has been edited by Grimnir on Aug 4 2008, 03:28 PM

OR you could write it how you want, seeing as most authors write for the sake of art--to please themselves rather than the masses/to make money.

not that that makes your book any better.

So, would third person limited work in that situation? I was looking through a majority of a few of my favorite books to see how they were written, and I found out that they were told in sections of third person limited.

One of them was told by a father an a son. while they didn't use "I" in the descriptive paragraphs, (such as, 'I looked around the room and saw-'), the story focused more on the character in question.

One of thee scenes to best describe it was that the son had entered a bazaar in a new country. While he wasn't expressly narrating it, it was told from his point of view. A few chapters later, it switched back to the father who was planning for war back at home.

I think if I did something like that with characters who are best suited to the scene, (a new student to introduce the school, or the friend of the main character to introduce the newcomer), would I have more of a chance to grab more readers? I wouldn't switch the limited views too often, but enough so that it manages to get the shot from the right angle.

In a way, I'm sort of writing this for my friends. They're all a part of it, including myself, (mind you, I'm not the superhero/godmod who writes themselves in to feel awesome), in a world of fantasy. All of their personalities and looks are intact, and they get a huge kick out of it when they read it. It is fun to write--to please myself-- but I like seeing their reactions as they read how I see them and portray them. Money is the last thing on my mind when I started this--I just wanted something to do to test myself.

this gives me no hope for my book now.

D=

this gives me no hope for my book now.

D=

DEAD FASTER THAN YOU CAN SAY MARY SUE

NO, THAT IS BAD. You do not ever make your friends characters in a story it is wrong and stupid. They will be fucking limited characters because you did not create them and thus you can't know exactly how they would act in a scenario. Yes, you could ask the IRL person what they'd do, but they could lie/it'd be a waste of time to figure out how they'd act.

Trust me, you'll end up with a bunch of mary sue characters running around. Atleast flex the creative muscle and make some goddamn characters yourself, both of you.

You know, for a story once, I was going to make a merchant character based on myself. then I realized that was stupid shit and he'd be a mary sue. So instead I made a new character from the ground up, with different motivations and views from myself. I also made him a giant insectoid alien who would keep his inventory strung up along the walls of his shop with his own specially produced natural silk, which ended up with him not getting very many customers because they didn't want to buy items that were covered in webby-gunk that came from the shopkeep's throat. That infuriated the insect guy because he just put all of his stuff up on the walls to the buyers could better see it and identify what they wanted through the language barrier.

There we go, I made a flat character who works as a one time merchant for the main character. And not only that, he's now infinitely more interesting than a merchant character based on myself and he works better to show off the foreign trade-world that the main character is on, with all sorts of nasty alien things that man wasn't made to see.

EDIT: DISREGARD THIS POST I SUCK COCKS. I basically forgot a bunch of factors and now I'm very wrong. I'll leave the major criticism to the actual writers on the site.

This post has been edited by Grimnir on Aug 5 2008, 03:56 PM

Stephen King said that the hero of the Dark Tower is based on him. King himself is also in the book.

Y'know what? He's lying.

this gives me no hope for my book now.

D=

DEAD FASTER THAN YOU CAN SAY MARY SUE

NO, THAT IS BAD. You do not ever make your friends characters in a story it is wrong and stupid. They will be fucking limited characters because you did not create them and thus you can't know exactly how they would act in a scenario. Yes, you could ask the IRL person what they'd do, but they could lie/it'd be a waste of time to figure out how they'd act.

Trust me, you'll end up with a bunch of mary sue characters running around. Atleast flex the creative muscle and make some goddamn characters yourself, both of you.

You know, for a story once, I was going to make a merchant character based on myself. then I realized that was stupid shit and he'd be a mary sue. So instead I made a new character from the ground up, with different motivations and views from myself. I also made him a giant insectoid alien who would keep his inventory strung up along the walls of his shop with his own specially produced natural silk, which ended up with him not getting very many customers because they didn't want to buy items that were covered in webby-gunk that came from the shopkeep's throat. That infuriated the insect guy because he just put all of his stuff up on the walls to the buyers could better see it and identify what they wanted through the language barrier.

There we go, I made a flat character who works as a one time merchant for the main character. And not only that, he's now infinitely more interesting than a merchant character based on myself and he works better to show off the foreign trade-world that the main character is on, with all sorts of nasty alien things that man wasn't made to see.

the supporting characters are based off people i know, but my main character ended up being the complete opposite of myself.

which i think would work.

THAT'S A BAD KAITOU *newspaper*

Seriously, the only time that's acceptable is in fanfics, NEVER originals, and only if they're NOT Mary Sue which takes a writer of tremendous self-control and humility. Look at most of my stories where it's me and Ordin, I provide depth to the characters without giving everyone super powers. They're usually just a little special but not moreso than their own kind, only moreso than the common human. Or even sometimes right on par.

Also, lots of flaws == lots of merits. Merits and flaws are the same thing actually. So someone who does EVERYTHING WRONG EVER is just as uninteresting and godmoddy as a Mary Sue.

...XD!!!!

I hate Mary Sue's. Trust me one that one. The only Sue type character is a little unavoidable, and, the only one whom I had to create.

By creating them based off of my friends, I also give them my friend's flaws. For example, Tia. She is a well rounded person. Kind, but selectively so. Holds grudges for long periods of time. Loyal, but childishly so. Sort of a freelancer, but is prone to offering her best friends only the best. For every pro in her personality, there is a con. It isn't TOTALLY overbalanced, like Trevlac's example of the overly-wrong Mary Sue.

...Did I mention I hate Mary Sue's? *shudder*

For every character I write, I really do try to give them flaws or aspects that make them unique, (like the web-spinning merchant). For example, my newest creation: Azraelle. When I gave her the looks of a twelve-year old, I gave her the pathetic strength of a regular human.

I do this with my friends as well, as odd as that seems. I try not to make them perfect, like what many would think a friend would normally do. I'm very careful about adding their negative personality flaws as realistically and as balanced as I can. I

Remind me to write out Tia's complete personality analysis. I wrote it in a notebook a while ago.

EDIT: ...*wimpers, and crawls to corner, tail between legs*

This post has been edited by Kaitou on Aug 6 2008, 11:47 AM