Cosplayers (Non-Cosplay) Party, Everyone's welcome! ^_^

During a Filcosplay-Pinoy Cosplay YM conference, a number of members from both communities started talking about this unecessary barrier. There are members of Pinoy Cosplay who, for some reason, feel discriminated. Some cosplayers who don't even understand why there has to be this separation still feel the tension between the two communities. Some people were even surprised to know that I look at FC and PC members equally.

We don't want this to go on. We're going to be seeing each other in events and this weird tension isn't helping anyone.

Christian proposed that we hold a Filcosplay-Pinoy Cosplay Unity Party. The details are still being discussed, but it will most likely be held sometime in April. Suggestions for the venue would be very much appreciated.

I hope this isn't asking for too much, but... We were hoping that we could settle the issues between the FC Staff and Mike Abundo. Touchy subject, I know. *ducks to avoid flying tsinelas*

Much to my surprise, Mike actually joined our conference after a while, and we tried to make him hear us out. Mike sort of resisted the idea at first, comparing Filcosplay and Pinoy Cosplay to Microsoft and Google, saying that the maintainers need not get along. Here are parts of the conversation:

Mike: ...Sergey Brin and Larry Page own Google...
Mike: ...Jerry Yang owns Yahoo.
Mike: Do Sergey, Larry, and Jerry all need to hang out?
Mike: Jin, if the FC staff wants to do business with me...
Mike: ...I'm always online.
Jin: microsoft and google are for-profit organizations
Jin: businesses
Jin: they're competing for business
Jin: are you implying that FC and PC are competing communities?
Mike: No, they're online services.
Mike: Same as MSN and Google.
Mike: Except...
Mike: ...PC and FC are nonprofits.
Mike: Right?
Jin: there's no reason to compete
Jin: no reason to have this separation
Pepe: MSN and google are not services
Mike: Yes they are.
Pepe: they are services yes
Pepe: but for A PROFIT
Pepe: they are competing services
Pepe: microsoft and google compete for advertising dollars
Mike: And PC is a nonprofit service...
Mike: ...run professionally.
Pepe: but the key differenriating factor here
Mike: Like a real business, but nonprofit.
Pepe: is the profit motive
Pepe: microsoft and google have a profit motive
Pepe: FC and PC do not
Mike: You're right...
Pepe: FC and PC are communities that share a hobby
Mike: ...the motive to improve is not profit...
Pepe: that's why you two should be working together
Pepe: imagine what you could accomplish together
Mike: ...but better service.
Mike: Like I said....
Mike: ...if the FC staff wanna do business...
Mike: ...I'm always online.
Pepe: sure
Pepe: i would suggest
Pepe: that you think for a minute
Pepe: and consider whether you shuld be treating something like cosplaying
Pepe: as a business or as a hobby
Pepe: when you think about things from a business perspective
Pepe: certain things change
Mike: Again, if they're interested in joint ventures for the benefit of Filipino cosplayers...
Pepe: i should know
Mike: ...I'm always online.
Pepe: im taking up BA. i would suggest mister mike, that you think about the passion that is cosplaying. not the organizational excellence, not the meritocracy or whatever else that might be involved.
Pepe: if you want cosplaying to be a passion
Pepe: dont treat it like a business
Pepe: and this is coming from a business major
Pepe: thanks and goodbye
Pepe: goodnight and thanks for listening mike
Mike: Aight. Take care, pepe.

So there we go. That's why we want unity between the communities.

As always, it was hard to get a straight answer from Mr. Abundo when we were asking him whether he was willing to go to the party. The closest thing we got was, "Look, if it's a party, sure." He didn't want it to revolve around him confronting the FC Staff. (And it definitely won't. It's centered on trying to achieve unity.)

What do you say, FC Staff? Willing to give this a shot? Hey, if he decides not to go... There'll still be a party.

All members are invited, of course. ^_^

*edit* I've changed the name from Filcosplay-PinoyCosplay Unity Party to simply Filcosplay-PinoyCosplay Party. The former title was misleading because people thought that the main point of the party was for the maintainers of both forums to settle their differences and maybe merge.

That isn't what we want to achieve by holding this party. In fact, that doesn't need to happen at all. Both forums can stay the way they are, but hopefully there'll be better relations between its members. We're not saying that the current FC-PC member relations are bad, but it could definitely be better. We can finally do away with the barrier that some people believe exists between Filcosplay and PinoyCosplay.

We're all people sharing the same passion for cosplay. Considering the already small population of Philiipine cosplayers, there's no point to dividing it further. Here's to building more friendships and learning from each other.

yeah! nejin is right!!

i'm christian from PC and

i would like to create a stronger bond and

a better future for cosplayers of PC and FC

by clearing issues with mike and the FC modz!!

so we could all move together as one!!

as i said it is better if we unite rather than to wage

wars with each other...

in this way we can show that the flipino cosplay community

is strong...


the event would take place in april...

details are still being discussed....

tama! kailangan to upang magsaya! at magkaunawaan!

@xtian & sis jin: hehehe need natin magkaisa mga kaibigan!

i'm a member of Filcosplay And Pinoy Cosplay so i want some peace

i hope PC and FC peepz out there wud help us by giving suggestions

where this would be held and when...

and i would like to say this is my idea

so sna po let's all get together and be one...

*keep in mind that this is UNOFFICIAL and thus, all replies are just mine and dont necessarily reflect the opinion of the entire group of FC Moderators.


During a Filcosplay-Pinoy Cosplay YM conference, a number of members from both communities started talking about this unecessary barrier. There are members of Pinoy Cosplay who, for some reason, feel discriminated. Some cosplayers who don't even understand why there has to be this separation still feel the tension between the two communities. Some people were even surprised to know that I look at FC and PC members equally.


**Where and when is this unexplained tension felt? please provide factual proof, or member accounts of such moments.


We don't want this to go on. We're going to be seeing each other in events and this weird tension isn't helping anyone.

Christian proposed that we hold a Filcosplay-Pinoy Cosplay Unity Party. The details are still being discussed, but it will most likely be held sometime in April. Suggestions for the venue would be very much appreciated.

I hope this isn't asking for too much, but... We were hoping that we could settle the issues between the FC Staff and Mike Abundo. Touchy subject, I know. *ducks to avoid flying tsinelas*

**As far as i know, it wasnt me who miscreated cosplay site names nor bought domains and made erroneous links to the PC forums. So i have nothing to be sorry for.

**I think the PinoyCosplay members feel discrimination against them because the actions of the creator of their cosplay Forums reverberate back to them by association.

**Most Filcosplay members dont have issues with the PinoyCosplay forums, only with the forum creator, and some people who are clueless tend to generalize the situation as simply "FC forums versus PC forums" when it is more accurately described as "Mike versus FC forums (and maybe even the PC mailing list)"


Much to my surprise, Mike actually joined our conference after a while, and we tried to make him hear us out. Mike sort of resisted the idea at first, comparing Filcosplay and Pinoy Cosplay to Microsoft and Google, saying that the maintainers need not get along.

**which is true.

As always, it was hard to get a straight answer from Mr. Abundo

**which is true.

when we were asking him whether he was willing to go to the party. The closest thing we got was, "Look, if it's a party, sure." He didn't want it to revolve around him confronting the FC Staff. (And it definitely won't. It's centered on trying to achieve unity.)


**of course he wont be made to confront the FC staff - he cant be forced to do anything he isnt emotionally or intellectually prepared to do.
Doing so would definitely endanger people.


What do you say, FC Staff? Willing to give this a shot? Hey, if he decides not to go... There'll still be a party.
All members are invited, of course. ^_^


**Eh, Seems to me, you answered your own question. With or without him, there's a party.

**Question is, will the Pinoy Cosplay members feel less discriminated after the party when they realize that Filcosplay isnt much different from them because :

1. some of PC forums members are FC members.
2. most of PC forums moderators are members(and former members) of FC.
3. the PC forums Co-admin is a Moderator in FC forums.
4. the PC Forums seem to be perfectly functioning even without Mike's help.

@nejin: okay yung suggestions niyo pero yung nangyari kasi nag-bigay ng
malalim na sugat so mahihirapan mag-heal pero i think wala naman
problema through fc & pc members,as long na pinahahalgahan niyo
yung pagkakaibigan niyo okay lang basta huwag lang sirain yung bond of
trust di ba. Wala sana tayong descrimination kasi pare-pareho naman tayo
siguro in cosplay competition may rivalry in the end friends lahat di ba ^.^

If there ever were still any wars or barriers or any form of animosity between us, they are made by individuals and not by the communities as a whole. As far as I can tell, most of the people here have already moved on.

As for Mike, I don't think the question is if we can forgive him, it's if we can trust him.

But of course, these are just my sentiments as an individual.

NOTE: THIS REPLY IS MY OWN OPINION AND DOESN'T REFLECT ON THE OPINION OF THE WHOLE FC ADMIN TEAM

first, we would like to thank for your efforts in organizing such a party and trying to eliminate the word discrimination between the two communities but it doesn't necessary the party to be a "unity party". we could always hold a plain party where everyone is invited no matter what community you came from...

imo, FC (its member and the admin) doesn't discriminate nor reject PC members in any way and for any reason at all. FC will always welcome with one arms to any cosplayer and/or cosplay enthusiats no matter what community they came from...FC is neutral

maybe this kind of thinking is only on a member-member/individual case basis and it doesn't reflect in anyway the whole FC community...it's not FC community vs PC community but likely FC individual vs PC individual

FC and PC will always gonna be friends, allies and siblings as long as nobody doesn't destroy both communities' sibling relationship and takes advantage of it unlike some ppl...

This post has been edited by sephiroth on Feb 28 2006, 08:46 AM

Ang problema nga kasi tingin ng ibang tao tinututukan sila ng katana at pinapapili kung FC ba sila o PC. At siguro pakiramdam nila traydor sila kung active rin sila sa ibang forums.

Hindi pa rin nila nakuha na (kahit ilang beses inulit-ulit) walang galit ang FC sa PC. May nasa list ko sa YM na PC at FC member (nakalimutan ko na kung sino ). Minsan ko siyang nakita na may status message na "Torn between two forums...", kaya tinanong ko kung tungkol ba ito sa PC at FC. Sabi niya oo. Pakiramdam ata niya kailangan siyang mamili ng side na papanigan.

Katulad ng sinabi ni polidread, PinoyCosplay members feel discrimination against them because the actions of the creator of their cosplay Forums reverberate back to them by association.

Kasama ako doon sa mahiwagang YM conference. Hindi ako naniniwala na magwo-work yung tungkol kay Mike, pero magandang event ito para klaruhin na wala dapat tensyon sa pagitan ng PC at FC.

Tingin niyo ba magbibigay ng apology si Mike kung saka-sakaling pumunta siya? Buong conference niyang sinasabi na "lagi naman akong online kung may problema ang FC staff sakin" o "si robert wong may number ko pwede niya akong tawagan anytime". Ewan ko lang ha, pero sa palagay ko ayaw niyang siya ang gumawa ng unang hakbang para magkaayos, kahit siya ang may atraso.

Kung magkaayos man ang FC Staff at si Mike, edi good. Kung hindi, sana lang may magandang fight scene.

Sana lang din matanggal sa ulo ng lahat na may diskriminasyon kasi sa palagay ko naman, wala talaga. Imahinasyon niyo lang yun. Magandang ideya siguro yung party para matanggal ang kanilang imahinasyon.

Take note that the following opinions are mine alone, and do not necessarily indicate the position of the Filcosplay Staff as a whole.

Originally, I believed that PC.com (I don't like using the name Pinoy Cosplay per say because I still believe that name belongs to the mailing list of the same name), was a seperatist movement born out of a disatisfaction of some members with Filcosplay. I believe they wanted to establish their own identity such as the Protestants did with the Roman Catholics, for instance.

Things are run very differently and with contrasting styles. Filcosplay is geared more towards enthusiasts who wish to discuss their hobby as well as other cosplay issues. PC.com is geared more towards trying to make money from cosplayers and cosplay events. Filcosplay is more concerned about Filipino cosplayers while PC.com is more concerned about how many foreigners visit the site.

I believe they have their own niches, and I really don't have an issue with cosplayers being members of both. That being said, I see no hostility between both forums. True, there are issues between individuals, but I doubt that this is representative of the attitudes of the boards towards each other.

That being said, I see no harm in creating a party where all cosplayers regardless of forum membership is welcome. The only thing is, I don't see why it has to be a "unity party" per say. Is there a merger in the works? Are we so divided that we prevent open membership between both forums? Why not just make it a cosplayer party period... without the need for PC or FC being part of it? It's like saying that if you're not part of FC or PC, you're not even worth being called a cosplayer which is feel is untrue.

Concerning "doing business" with Mike Abundo, I have done so in the past and got burned and know too many people who've had the same experience to even consider it. I still firmly believe that good business runs concurrently with good business ethics, and no sum of money will make me feel otherwise.

my opinion.

it is in some way inevitable on what's happening in regards with the discrimination issue.

based on my observation, yes sephy's right about FC being non-descriminant to PC members.

it's just that based on the point of view of other members on what had happened between Mr. A and the whole of FC as it dragged PC to the pits.

it's kinda like politicking.

how would you know that the Philippine President is a very liable person in the image of citizens if the opposition members always citicizing her? it drags her allies as well into the mix.

as for the party, might be a pretty good idea... but i'm hoping for all to think about the ups and downs of the plan.

Having a get together is always a good thing, if not great idea that would lessen any individual grudges against any particular member, within or from other forums.

As we all know, FC has an upcoming outreach program, and we are open for any PC member to join us as a prequel to a get together by volunteering to help out the kids with us. This way, we can have a "bonding" session with a single united cause: to make children happy.

Since the ball has already been rolling, this will still be considered an FC event, but we have (and always has been), as general practice, been giving open invitations to anyone who would like to join. We encourage FC members to invite their friends (regardless if they are from FC or not, whether they are cosplayers or not from any forum or group affiliation) to volunteer to join our committees for the outreach program. This hopefully creates a bond that goes beyond cosplaying, to be united as friends having fun for a cause. Then after that initial bonding session, we can easily make another casual get together anytime.

This issue is no different from the past cosplay groups who, even separated with affiliation, has a friendly and even close bond with everyone: OAV, Cosplayers World, WAA, PCML, Yaoi Dudes, Anime Club... even if there were some individual grudges, as a whole everyone got along just fine.

Regarding the FC/PC relationship... again there should be no anxiety or even fear between members. We may have some individual differences but that is between one person towards the other, and not group versus group.

I no longer have any serious grievances with Mike Abundo (provided he doesnt create any more future mischief against me, my friends and Filcosplay) but as what Crowe mentioned earlier, its now a matter of trust. And honestly i still dont trust Mike Abundo when it comes to "doing business" with him whether its cosplay related (like having him as part of organizing cosplay conventions or the likes) or any other business venture that isnt cosplay related.

Again this is just me in relation with Mike Abundo, and not against PC and its members as a whole. And as an observation based on Nejin's YM copy post, its pretty clear Mike would rather have us contact him than vice versa. Since Mike has initiated the barrier himself, perhaps its best that FC members can invite personally their friends in PC to join this outreach program. Just like the rules regarding parties, each members is responsible for the friends they invite to join.

Again to be frank (in case people will ask about it, im sure they will), how will i react if Mike were present? I still dont trust him thats for sure.

Personally,

If a meeting is needed to both clarify and clear the air between FC and PC, then I'm all for it.

But I would like to make one point clear.

Saying that the party is going to revolve around achieving unity rather than about him confronting the FC staff is wishful thinking on both FC's and PC's part. If he is planning on going to the party with the same arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude that caused the whole fiasco in the first place, then there will probably be a confrontation. I don't trust him, but I trust him to probably do something at the party that will once again draw attention to himself and further the animosity.

There is undoubtedly a certain bias on my part regarding this issue (as most of you have probably seen in previous posts ) I have seen and known people who have tried working with him, and failing because he wound up screwing them several times over, so if this party is going to be about the possibility of FC admins working with him in the near future, then I am very much against it. If this party however, is going to be about FC and PC members, then I am all for it.

It's true that yahoo and google doesn't necessarily have to get along. But following that analogy, a lot of people use *both* Google and Yahoo, and have managed to get along just fine as well. If he isn't willing to come to the party, and if he isn't willing to at least accept the fact that he isn't the omnipotent person that he seems to think he is, then you don't need to force him.

@ Nejin
If you guys are still planning to push through, please do PM any of the admins or smods the details so we know what you guys plan to do.

gusto ko lang mag-react dito:

i will be frank: baka yung isa dun ang may kagagawan niyan? kasi as far as i can tell, wala akong narinig na FC member or mod na nagparinig or nagpilit na mamili ang ibang members nila. ilang beses na inulit ng mga tao dito na "it's okay to be part of two forums." sus, parang member ka lang naman ng ragnaboards, pero member ka rin ng guildwars.ph forums at ng mobius forums. nothing wrong with it diba? ewan ko lang kung ganun din yung feelings ng admin sa kabilang istasyon.

my two cents. sabihin niyo na na gumagawa ako ng intriga eh ganito opinyon ko eh. basta mga dears, tandaan nyo 'to: you're free to choose. wala naman po tayo sa martial law. (kung may mamilit sa inyo, iharap ninyo sa akin at bubunutan ko sila ng ngipin!)

with that said, a party sounds like a good idea. (although, since only paul is mod and i'm not, i will have no qualms about bashing mike when i see him. XD) when is it? ^_^ why not just make it an Anime Cosplay Party? or a Cosplay Friendship Party? no need to distinguish between groups after all.

this post written by minami. (just so no one will mistake that BC wrote that. )