Partly true. You've never been much of a defender-fanatic... But that's totally different form this pro-DEN propaganda, and the way you go openly manifest your support to invaders. We've got some allied regions, and I don't think they'll be happy if it turns out a member of our government supports invaders.

The moto of your puppet says "The S.S.S.S. DEN nation!". First time I noticed was when you mentioned it. I also could not find your UN-nation (neither Stoned Smurfs, neither Stoned Smurfs Military is in the UN). That doesn't really surprise me since invaders almost always advise to keep your UN-nation out of their main region, to avoid being added to the dossier of defenders. If this is the case, and you have turned invader, then the choice is yours: either you're a member of Europa, or you're a member of the DEN. You can't be both. Invading is against our policy, and against everything we stand for.

wow, your kicking me out? after all i have done... pity really... but i NEVER take kindly to anyone forcing me to be either in or out.

so...

im out...

have it your way double E.


been fun,
~Pot~

well almost an hour ago i was highly respected member nation of Europa and now due to my puppet nations alliance with The DEN i am being forced out.

" either you're a member of Europa, or you're a member of the DEN. You can't be both. Invading is against our policy, and against everything we stand for. "


even tho the TEA has wargames to INVADE! WTF? i would never do any harm to Europa and you guys know that. HOWEVER, (man i like big letters) Nov 3 2004, 02:19 PM our founder as well as anyone else that goes to the forums seen that my puppet nation has ties to The DEN. 22 hours ago a puppet nation called Illiterate dudes was created. 15 hours ago it started sending a recruitment letter out for The DEN in a mess of regions, including Europa, even tho EVERYONE knows that is so totally against the NS rules. the mods frown upon it greatly. The DEN has gotten the attention of the mods alot in the past and keep to a strict standard of rules that are LEGAL to insure everything is within the FAQ of NationStates. yet this so called DEN trooper disobeyed the DEN code. everyone knows you DO NOT get people from going to player created regions and addvertising, you just get annoyed players and angry mods.

im being set up people! by who, i dont know. everyone here knows i would NEVER do anything to hurt our region. i created the map, forum banner, all kinds of RPs and topics and more. why would i throw that away? i have many friends here and hope they speak up and help me stay in Europa, my region.

~Pot~

True, Pot. You have done much for Europa and I hope anyone remember that.

And then what comes to this invader-matter. Well I have no idea what exactly is going on here but aren´t you bit too hard to Pot EE? It´s your decision though so I will not try to interfere otherwise than saying that please rethink this.

Catchy title, Pot.

But... I haven't kicked you, I haven't removed your acces to our Government boards, nor did I remove your super-moderator-powers. I just have you a choice.

I realise you've done many good to the region, which I'm grateful for, but invading is against our policy. I know, we have a regional army... to defend our region, and help out allied regions.. Occasionally we do keep practise execises (cfr the Warzones) with some of our allies.. But we don't invade (unless it's some kind of pre-emptive attack on someone who's planning to invade).

You can't be a soldier of an invadergroup, and be a member of Europa's Government at the same time. Suppose the DEN wants to invade one of our allies, there will be a conlict of interests. Europa has always been independent, Smurfs, we've all agreed on that when we determined our position in the ADN vs Union case.


As for "Illiterate dudes"... Just some spamming punk, which spammed several regions. It could be a DEN-member, but as well an imposter, never mind him, he's been deleted already.

did you read that? you did kick me. i've been with The DEN and associated with other invader and defender groups this WHOLE time. no one has ever asked so i didnt say. and now that you know you boot me? i will not be forced to change just to remain in a goverment that i gave a little extra life to. you gave me the choice to change or get the boot and i refuse to change.

take my mod powers and put me in the normal members group, i would still like to post and RP with a few friends. that is if i am allowed to stay in the region.

this matter is dead...


~Pot~

Any chance of an outbreak of some sense? I accept I'm pretty new to this forum, but in Pot's defence he seems to contribute a hell of a lot to it.
This forum would be a worse place if he takes less of an interest.

Please stop acting like qausi-politicians and quoting every last sentence - you can read what you want into any sentence if you analyze it enough.

Is there any evidence at all that proves that S.S.S.S. has done anything to harm Europa? Do we have to declare our puppets and have them abide by Europa's rules even though they are in a different region, with a different ethos and in, and here's the key words, ROLE PLAY, act in a different way?

Pot: We all know you've had it pretty rough over the last few weeks, don't let fatigue and weariness cloud your judgement - I've got enormous respect for you and it seems to me that every one else here has too.

EE: Please reconsider, you seem a little harsh in your application of the rules. I know this is your place, but if, in your opinion, there's doubt that Pot has harmed us, surely he's innocent.

This is a good region, a good forum with passionate players. A little heated debate never hurt anyone!!

Speaking on behalf of the TEA and Greek Liberators, these training missions are set up to train recruits to enter hostile terratory, liberate and leave. Nothing more. SS this was not a personal attack on you, you happen to be a reall cool guy OOC and IC, you can come to greece as long as you promise not to bring harm to it.

It seems to me that, after reading all of the above, the ties of Stoned Smurfs with The DEN were a surprise to all of us at Europa. I agree that this doesn't amaze me. I would not expect a good friend and hard, 'constructive' worker as Stoned Smurfs to be also and invader of The DEN. This is something I believe he should have told us at some point in time, being a trusted member of the EuroGov.

As for the measures taken bij Europa Empire, I don't see a problem in removing some of his mod-powers as long as we're having this discussion. Not that I don't believe we can trust him any longer, for me he remains innocent untill proven guilty. It's just that, if he's guilty, what will we do?

I hope Pot is big enough to admit to any wrongdoing.
That said, I hope everyone else is big enough to admit they're wrong if it comes to that.

I'm still confused that we should expect anyone to declare what puppets do. Who cares?

This seems a bit personal on both sides. The crux of this matter is painfully simple:
Is there any proof that S.S.S.S has harmed Europa and is a member of DEN? Not his puppets, his nation thats in this region.
If the answer is yes, Take action.
However, if the answer is no, then he's innocent.
You don't have to trust or like anyone, but a mature, healthy respect is necessary to make the world go round.

well my puppet nation is associated with the DEN NOT my primary nation. i wouldnt do anything to harm Europa and EE knows that. but thats the end of that matter. in my haste to not host any map pics i deleted the banner, glad to see it back up. as for the map itself, it was my hard work and believe me it took me many many hours. if you wish to boot me i want my map. you should have atleast that much respect for me. i did it in MSPaint and im sure someone like Orioni can whip up a better one.

~Pot~

Exactly Orioni, exactly. Try to lighten up your mood. Please.


Ok. I volunteered to make the new map and keep updating it too. See the thread. And because I really do not want to offend you Pot, I will use old version of the map but make it completely again.

oh, dear, i feel disapointed that i missed out on this whole argument.

i dont see why a good man like SS should be forced out becuse of one of his puppets affiliations with an invader group, i have several puppets, none of wich i am going to disclose here, and i think i should be able to do what i like with them. especially if i was as big and populer member as SS was. my opinion of some of the members of this region has gone right down now

We're a neutral region... the major reason for that being Pot insisted on not joining the ADN or any defender coalition. http://s7.invisionfree.com/Europa/index.php?showtopic=167

Therefore we became an independent region (we're not part of any big groups, invader nor defender), and we set up our own army. The goal of this army is to DEFEND our own region, and/or DEFEND allied regions, and/or LIBERATE other regions. And... in special cases, suppose an invader region want to invade us or one of our allies, a preemptive strike would in order. But, we DO NOT INVADE.

I did not force SS to leave, I did not kick him, or asked him to leave, I have him a choice. And he chose to leave. He could just as well give up his membership of DEN. The point is he can not be a member of the Europa Government, and be a member of an invader group at the same time. Suppose DEN decides to invade us, or an ally...