Partly true. You've never been much of a defender-fanatic... But that's totally different form this pro-DEN propaganda, and the way you go openly manifest your support to invaders. We've got some allied regions, and I don't think they'll be happy if it turns out a member of our government supports invaders.

The moto of your puppet says "The S.S.S.S. DEN nation!". First time I noticed was when you mentioned it. I also could not find your UN-nation (neither Stoned Smurfs, neither Stoned Smurfs Military is in the UN). That doesn't really surprise me since invaders almost always advise to keep your UN-nation out of their main region, to avoid being added to the dossier of defenders. If this is the case, and you have turned invader, then the choice is yours: either you're a member of Europa, or you're a member of the DEN. You can't be both. Invading is against our policy, and against everything we stand for.

wow, your kicking me out? after all i have done... pity really... but i NEVER take kindly to anyone forcing me to be either in or out.

so...

im out...

have it your way double E.


been fun,
~Pot~

well almost an hour ago i was highly respected member nation of Europa and now due to my puppet nations alliance with The DEN i am being forced out.

" either you're a member of Europa, or you're a member of the DEN. You can't be both. Invading is against our policy, and against everything we stand for. "


even tho the TEA has wargames to INVADE! WTF? i would never do any harm to Europa and you guys know that. HOWEVER, (man i like big letters) Nov 3 2004, 02:19 PM our founder as well as anyone else that goes to the forums seen that my puppet nation has ties to The DEN. 22 hours ago a puppet nation called Illiterate dudes was created. 15 hours ago it started sending a recruitment letter out for The DEN in a mess of regions, including Europa, even tho EVERYONE knows that is so totally against the NS rules. the mods frown upon it greatly. The DEN has gotten the attention of the mods alot in the past and keep to a strict standard of rules that are LEGAL to insure everything is within the FAQ of NationStates. yet this so called DEN trooper disobeyed the DEN code. everyone knows you DO NOT get people from going to player created regions and addvertising, you just get annoyed players and angry mods.

im being set up people! by who, i dont know. everyone here knows i would NEVER do anything to hurt our region. i created the map, forum banner, all kinds of RPs and topics and more. why would i throw that away? i have many friends here and hope they speak up and help me stay in Europa, my region.

~Pot~

True, Pot. You have done much for Europa and I hope anyone remember that.

And then what comes to this invader-matter. Well I have no idea what exactly is going on here but aren´t you bit too hard to Pot EE? It´s your decision though so I will not try to interfere otherwise than saying that please rethink this.

Catchy title, Pot. :D

But... I haven't kicked you, I haven't removed your acces to our Government boards, nor did I remove your super-moderator-powers. I just have you a choice.

I realise you've done many good to the region, which I'm grateful for, but invading is against our policy. I know, we have a regional army... to defend our region, and help out allied regions.. Occasionally we do keep practise execises (cfr the Warzones) with some of our allies.. But we don't invade (unless it's some kind of pre-emptive attack on someone who's planning to invade).

You can't be a soldier of an invadergroup, and be a member of Europa's Government at the same time. Suppose the DEN wants to invade one of our allies, there will be a conlict of interests. Europa has always been independent, Smurfs, we've all agreed on that when we determined our position in the ADN vs Union case.


As for "Illiterate dudes"... Just some spamming punk, which spammed several regions. It could be a DEN-member, but as well an imposter, never mind him, he's been deleted already.

did you read that? you did kick me. i've been with The DEN and associated with other invader and defender groups this WHOLE time. no one has ever asked so i didnt say. and now that you know you boot me? i will not be forced to change just to remain in a goverment that i gave a little extra life to. you gave me the choice to change or get the boot and i refuse to change.

take my mod powers and put me in the normal members group, i would still like to post and RP with a few friends. that is if i am allowed to stay in the region.

this matter is dead...


~Pot~
<_<

Any chance of an outbreak of some sense? I accept I'm pretty new to this forum, but in Pot's defence he seems to contribute a hell of a lot to it.
This forum would be a worse place if he takes less of an interest.

Please stop acting like qausi-politicians and quoting every last sentence - you can read what you want into any sentence if you analyze it enough.

Is there any evidence at all that proves that S.S.S.S. has done anything to harm Europa? Do we have to declare our puppets and have them abide by Europa's rules even though they are in a different region, with a different ethos and in, and here's the key words, ROLE PLAY, act in a different way?

Pot: We all know you've had it pretty rough over the last few weeks, don't let fatigue and weariness cloud your judgement - I've got enormous respect for you and it seems to me that every one else here has too.

EE: Please reconsider, you seem a little harsh in your application of the rules. I know this is your place, but if, in your opinion, there's doubt that Pot has harmed us, surely he's innocent.

This is a good region, a good forum with passionate players. A little heated debate never hurt anyone!! :mad:

Speaking on behalf of the TEA and Greek Liberators, these training missions are set up to train recruits to enter hostile terratory, liberate and leave. Nothing more. SS this was not a personal attack on you, you happen to be a reall cool guy OOC and IC, you can come to greece as long as you promise not to bring harm to it.

It seems to me that, after reading all of the above, the ties of Stoned Smurfs with The DEN were a surprise to all of us at Europa. I agree that this doesn't amaze me. I would not expect a good friend and hard, 'constructive' worker as Stoned Smurfs to be also and invader of The DEN. This is something I believe he should have told us at some point in time, being a trusted member of the EuroGov.

As for the measures taken bij Europa Empire, I don't see a problem in removing some of his mod-powers as long as we're having this discussion. Not that I don't believe we can trust him any longer, for me he remains innocent untill proven guilty. It's just that, if he's guilty, what will we do?

I hope Pot is big enough to admit to any wrongdoing.
That said, I hope everyone else is big enough to admit they're wrong if it comes to that.

I'm still confused that we should expect anyone to declare what puppets do. Who cares?

This seems a bit personal on both sides. The crux of this matter is painfully simple:
Is there any proof that S.S.S.S has harmed Europa and is a member of DEN? Not his puppets, his nation thats in this region.
If the answer is yes, Take action.
However, if the answer is no, then he's innocent.
You don't have to trust or like anyone, but a mature, healthy respect is necessary to make the world go round.

well my puppet nation is associated with the DEN NOT my primary nation. i wouldnt do anything to harm Europa and EE knows that. but thats the end of that matter. in my haste to not host any map pics i deleted the banner, glad to see it back up. as for the map itself, it was my hard work and believe me it took me many many hours. if you wish to boot me i want my map. you should have atleast that much respect for me. i did it in MSPaint and im sure someone like Orioni can whip up a better one.

~Pot~

Exactly Orioni, exactly. Try to lighten up your mood. Please.


Ok. I volunteered to make the new map and keep updating it too. See the thread. And because I really do not want to offend you Pot, I will use old version of the map but make it completely again.

oh, dear, i feel disapointed that i missed out on this whole argument.

i dont see why a good man like SS should be forced out becuse of one of his puppets affiliations with an invader group, i have several puppets, none of wich i am going to disclose here, and i think i should be able to do what i like with them. especially if i was as big and populer member as SS was. my opinion of some of the members of this region has gone right down now

We're a neutral region... the major reason for that being Pot insisted on not joining the ADN or any defender coalition. http://s7.invisionfree.com/Europa/index.php?showtopic=167

Therefore we became an independent region (we're not part of any big groups, invader nor defender), and we set up our own army. The goal of this army is to DEFEND our own region, and/or DEFEND allied regions, and/or LIBERATE other regions. And... in special cases, suppose an invader region want to invade us or one of our allies, a preemptive strike would in order. But, we DO NOT INVADE.

I did not force SS to leave, I did not kick him, or asked him to leave, I have him a choice. And he chose to leave. He could just as well give up his membership of DEN. The point is he can not be a member of the Europa Government, and be a member of an invader group at the same time. Suppose DEN decides to invade us, or an ally...

"i have ALWAYS had a puppet nation in The DEN"

When you came to Europa, your UN-nation was "Stoned Smurfs". You only created "Stoned Smurfs Military", when you were already here in Europa (seeing as the nation only has a population of little over a 100 million). see also this thread

So, practically this whole time, Smurfs UN-nation was either stationed in Europa, or was on military exercice with our regional army. Until recently, he changed his UN-status to another nation and became invader... this is custom at some invader organisations:

BTW, if you say you've been member this whole time, how come I saw just the other day you've only been promoted to "Private"? That isn't exactly a high rank for a long-time member :huh:

This was taken from the DEN regional HQ, which I checked after Smurfs announced he's an invader.

So if I understood this correctly, Stoned Smurfs would rather be a member of The DEN than a member of Europa.

I think you're missing how dangerous and strong principles are. If I'd recieved the same ultimatum I'd be gone too, guilty or not.

I'm glad you lot aren't in the judiciary!! :angry:

well EE you are starting to act like a dick and its starting to annoy me. let me clear some things up and then let you twist them again.

for the last fucking time, i have ALWAYS had A puppet in the DEN, notice i said A. i did not clairify which puppet i had. hell i got alot of puppets that get TGed by you recruiting lol. i have always had a puppet in some kind of defender group or invader group, makes the game more fun. as for the SS military, they re what you would call a primary DEN nation as i had got to the point i didnt care if anyone knew i was linked to the DEN. i had had several ghost nation working for the DEN and ALL were non UN nations. if youre a new UN nation you draw attention. but you should know all this as you are in the DEN too.

aww we got the same rank. and before you go saying its not you, check the IPs. so shouldnt you leave too? lol. i dont care no more dude. its over. its to the point it bores me. you're boards are dying and you need a mod to clean up all the stickys that i dont do anymore. thank god we're arguing, cus if not the boards would have no new posts heehee.

and Orioni, the S.S.S.S. would rather be a member of Europa and have the freedom to have his puppets anywhere he wants them than be forced to obey a rule that EE made up on the fly.


~Pot~

lol you make me laugh boy. didnt see these. as for the big part of not joining a defender group, i am just one person with just one opinion.

as for the independent nation, im glad that truned out the way it did. Europa stands proudly on her own feet now without the crutch of a defender lable. if i had anything to do with this you should be thanking me not prosecuting me.

as for the TEA, yea your right there. defending and liberating and all that good junk is great. i was down for it. you had my UN nation not the DEN.

dude. how many times do i have to say this. you gave me a choice of either or, HOW IS THAT NOT FORCING! duh lol.

lastly i was never a member of Europa and the DEN. i was a member of Europa and my puppets were with several defender and invader groups. i would never let anyone do anything to Europa as she was my home for a long time. the DEN knew that. i wouldnt let them or anyone step on foot inside Europa and they knew that. i knew the ghosts and all the members so it was impossible for them to slip people in and out without me knowing.

ok im done now, twist away!


lmao,
~Pot~

and BTW Orioni, what is the forum thats under Warroom? seeing i was a member of the government and couldnt see it hmmm...


lmfao,
ok im done now.
~Pot~

:unsure: :o :(

Haha, real fun Pot. If I were an invader, then why the hell would I "kick" a fellow invading buddy from DEN. And if you now would accuse me of spying on DEN,.. I would not be that stupid of choosing such obvious name. :D

I do have a UN-nation, it's safely endorsing a delegate somewhere in my home region.

Hmm. It is true that the forum has been quite dead for couple of days. RP forum even longer.

Where´s Van? No posts in about a week??

:offtopic: opps sorry, just the old mod ways coming out of me and come on E, now you're just being silly. :)

i am not calling you a invader guy, Europaia's entrance threw red flags in the begining and has been monitered and its pretty clear who it is lol! but hey im not mad, evrybody need an eye and ear here and there right? how else would you have access to the rankings that are only located on The DEN forums and can only be entered by invaders? ;)


still very much lmao,
~Pot~

I'm telling you, I haven't registered on any DEN-forums. 't would be rather stupid to register with a name like that. I can't believe you're minsunderstimating me that much. :P

I got the promotions-post from the DEN regional HeadQuarters... I took a look at it when you said you were DEN.

made me sign in for this one ;) . for anyone who does not know the ranking that EE mentioned are located on The DEN forums which must be approved by a high ranking staff member of the forum. TITO, ADN, EEA and many other defender groups are always looking to put a spy in the forums so they always talk to a member before granting them passage to the forums.

but lets drop it. theres no need to argue EE. whats done is done. the only reason to keep this up is to keep the forums active. other than that its only forcing other members to choose sides (but then you're good at making people make choices huh) and seeing im trying to just end this and be gone lets just end it here. if you never post another line in this silly arguement again then neither shall i. tables turned, you choose.


your loving and oh so huggable,
~Pot~

EDIT: wow he looks at it more than i do! proven to be wrong on that one kiddies.

EDIT OF AN EDIT: im only wrong on the fact that they posted it in the rankings in the civil HQ. as for Europaia, read above. it matters not who here believes because we know right. lol :D

Good that this can(or can it) be closed now. It was almost like these forums had turned a place for me to held a monology. :P

That forum was created for me by E. I worked out a new structure for the forum and used it as a showcase. You can read about it in my thread "Improving the forum", here, here and especially here. Nothing to worry about.

This is getting unhealthy. There's nothing else to be said.
People are unhappy with the situation, but that is now history. Nothing is to be gained from continued sniping and from what I can gather the region is ready to move forward.
I've expressed my feelings as have others.

Please, no more bitching.

I would suggest locking this thread at midnight on Sunday. Can we? :rip:

I could close it right now if all agree. But leaving it open till sundayevening seems reasonable. All things that need to be said can be said and after that no-more (at least not here).