View Full Version: Limit Of Questions Philosophy

The Eureka Seven Forums > Anime Discussion > Limit Of Questions Philosophy

Pages: [1] 2

Title: Limit Of Questions Philosophy
Description: Eureka Seven Philosophy


VLOXY - April 24, 2007 01:36 AM (GMT)
Does anyone know where the limit of questions philosophy comes from?
Is it from a religion? Who coined it? Did it come from the Golden Bough (the book Holland reads)?

I am fascinated by it because it offers a possible solution to 10th dimensional physics. Often times as I watch Eureka Seven and their discussion of the limit of questions, it made me ponder about the 10th dimension and super string theory.

Similiar ideas are in the book Accelerando, however Eureka Sevens unique approach to this phenomenom is fascinating.

crazyiez - April 24, 2007 01:39 AM (GMT)
hmm is it called the limit of life theory... well thats what the subtitles say, anyways... i personnaly thought that this was made up. please explain if you know more.

Renton`Thurston - April 24, 2007 01:44 AM (GMT)
The Limit Of Questions was made if the Scub Coral had awaken, thus destroying physical mankind. In the series, there was a point when they had awaken but forced itself into hibernation. They created the Command Cluster to stay in hibernation. Thus also created "The Great Wall". When the Command Cluster was blown up in Ep 47, the Nirvash tried to become the new Command Cluster (I believe they said that) and when Eureka's necklace took effect, she became the new Command Cluster, Renton saved her, however (Ep 50 Finale) and so the Nirvash Spec-3 Amita Drive (As I call it) took their place. So they could have the Scab Coral not awaken and not reach the Limit of Questions.



(That's my point of view.)

crazyiez - April 24, 2007 01:46 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Renton`Thurston @ Apr 24 2007, 01:44 AM)
The Limit Of Questions was made if the Scub Coral had awaken, thus destroying physical mankind. In the series, there was a point when they had awaken but forced itself into hibernation. They created the Command Cluster to stay in hibernation. Thus also created "The Great Wall". When the Command Cluster was blown up in Ep 47, the Nirvash tried to become the new Command Cluster (I believe they said that) and when Eureka's necklace took effect, she became the new Command Cluster, Renton saved her, however (Ep 50 Finale) and so the Nirvash Spec-3 Amita Drive (As I call it) took their place. So they could have the Scab Coral not awaken and not reach the Limit of Questions.



(That's my point of view.)

actually... w8 ill continue this after episode 50 dont want to give it away...

VLOXY - April 24, 2007 01:49 AM (GMT)
Limit of life...hmmm...

Someone wrote in wiki describing it as:

The existence of such a large mass of life also poses problems for existence itself. In the series, only so much sentient life can exist within a specific space, known as the "Limit of Questions" (̌E, Kudan no Genkai?). By itself, the Scub Coral is already fairly close to that point. Should too much life exist within a given space, reality would tear itself apart, causing an effect similar to a black hole (see Limit of inquiry). The Scub partially triggers this event at some undefined point before the beginning of the series, thus creating the Great Wall, and puts most of itself to sleep in order to prevent it from fully occurring. The Coral's "Command Cluster," something like its primary mind, maintains this sleep.

Limit of life would make sense as well as there might be a "finite number" of possible souls as described in Judaism and other religions.

I have searched the Internet looking for "Kudan no Genkai" but I have not had much success. I have asked some budhist friends as well and have come up short.


Renton`Thurston - April 24, 2007 01:58 AM (GMT)
Well, Wikipedia has a good way of saying things. ;)

Kasharikun - April 24, 2007 02:08 AM (GMT)
Limit of life is an interesting concept ne? however, the actual theory is a derivation from modern physics. The theory itself is an allusion to the matter/antimatter theory, which states that two objects cannot exist as opposites in the same space, because if that happens, those two things will annihilate themselves releasing great amounts of energy. however, the limit of life theory differs in which the amount of living things living in one planet cannot pass a certain limit. Since the earth can only support a set amount of living things, going over that will start a tear in the time/space continuum and creating a black hole, engulfing the earth and everything in it. When the scub coral took over the earth, they reached the limit of life, and the great wall was formed, knowing this, some of the scub coral became dormant to avoid their destruction. but when the humans arrived on earth, most of the rest of the scub coral went into a dormant state.

Minase`Takashiro - April 24, 2007 02:22 AM (GMT)
Wow. You're smart! Lol. :P

rsaint333 - April 24, 2007 02:47 AM (GMT)
I couldn't have explained it better myself. :)

That's about it, also, this phenomenon was called the limit of questions by Dr. Bear, because his theory at it's simplest would imply that every single intelligent being asks a question, after the limit of these questions has been reached (you could call it the limit of thought if you want to) a tear is created in time and space. This limit is however, not of physical matter, existing in the 3d dimension, but the limit of minds (scub and human) existing in the 7th dimension (the different dimensions are explained by Norbu in the episode with Dr. Bear).

Kasharikun - April 24, 2007 02:51 AM (GMT)
i believe Norbu-sama explains it best. (wow, the english translation is truly different in this part of the plot as of the Japanese translation!) in the original Japanese translation, Norbu-sama explains that everything has a soul and that the souls exist in the 10th dimension. If there are too many souls in the 10th dimension, that dimension would break and the rest of the dimensions would follow suit.

wildbill - April 24, 2007 02:54 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (VLOXY @ Apr 23 2007, 08:36 PM)
Does anyone know where the limit of questions philosophy comes from?
Is it from a religion? Who coined it? Did it come from the Golden Bough (the book Holland reads)?

I am fascinated by it because it offers a possible solution to 10th dimensional physics. Often times as I watch Eureka Seven and their discussion of the limit of questions, it made me ponder about the 10th dimension and super string theory.

Similiar ideas are in the book Accelerando, however Eureka Sevens unique approach to this phenomenom is fascinating.

I am buying the book soon and will let you know. I spent about an hour sitting in the book store looking thru the book while drinking my latte and learned a lot. The king business definitely comes from the book. I believe Diane is named after a goddess described in the book. Anemone role as envisioned by Dewey is definitely there. I also believe the names Nirvash and Eureka may be in there also, but not spelled the same way. The names could have been reached by doing an anagram of some other deities name or a non-English pronunciation. This book is very heavy reading. If youre interested you can find it in the anthropology section.

There is no such thing as a stupid question. Unfortunately there are a lot of stupid answers.

Kasharikun - April 24, 2007 03:00 AM (GMT)
I have flipped through Golden Bough, and i found it slightly complex. I do hope you enjoy it! it is very controversial and it deals with religion and cultism.

here is a link to a site where you can read the entire book online for anyone interested :)

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/f/frazer/james/golden/

rsaint333 - April 24, 2007 03:29 AM (GMT)
Yeah, the Golden Bough is a bit difficult to read, I haven't myself, but I know that it is a comparative study of religions, both ancient and more recent. I don't believe the book has anything to do with the limit of questions however.

And yes, there might be some speculation on the subject of the dimensional tear, I mean if it's caused by an excess of minds in the 7th dimension (Eureka seveN :o ) or an excess of souls in the 10th dimension, I'm not sure.

Oh and one more thing about the Golden Bough, earlyer I saw someone ask why Eureka and Renton were standing in a forest at the end of the series. I didn't read the thread because I don't want to spoil episode 50 for myself, I'm watching it this weekend. Anyway after all of Dewey's and Holland's talk about the King, there is a quote in the Golden Bough which they mention, "The King of the forests of Nemi", a reference perhaps, Renotn's the king, and Eureka's the queen.

In the manga at one point Holland also says, refering to Renton, "So he is that King......", and a picture showing Renton in a torn-up ancient robe among the scubs (Holland imagining it).

VLOXY - April 24, 2007 04:14 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Kasharikun @ Apr 23 2007, 06:51 PM)
i believe Norbu-sama explains it best. (wow, the english translation is truly different in this part of the plot as of the Japanese translation!) in the original Japanese translation, Norbu-sama explains that everything has a soul and that the souls exist in the 10th dimension. If there are too many souls in the 10th dimension, that dimension would break and the rest of the dimensions would follow suit.

That is how I was thinking about it when listening to it in English. Eureka Seven is fascinating in its description of the 10th dimension regardless of translation because so much is told in the visuals as well.

I think I am begining to understand and achieve more clarity on the subject. It is not a matter of what you call the point of singularity (i.e., limit of questions, limit of life, limit of thought, etc.) but the fact of its existence or nonexistence.

However, one version of the 10th dimension would include the possibility of too many souls in existence since that concept exists as a potential reality. What keeps that reality from occuring could in this case be the love Renton and Eureka share. Or, could it be the baby that Talho is carrying? It could be...

So many possibilities, thus I will conclude that the series will go on in some form even though it ends wonderfully the way it ends.

Eureka - April 24, 2007 08:12 AM (GMT)
The real thing " The Limit of Questions philosophy , is in fact the CORAN , all about this is describe in the CORAN , all this is an Islamic Idiology, The LImit of Words.

the 10th dimension does not exist in the CORAN , is a part of the buddhist end of the world explanation , and wiith more science , the General Theory of Relativity.

In normal words .. the 10th dimension is a mirror .. we are in the other side of the mirror, but if we take a picture of the mirror you will see an infinity YOU...

Basic Physics explain that 2 object in the same universe and time can't coexist or is not allow.... But the rule can be destroy with the proof of more dimensions... We are all in the same universe, but in the other side of the mirror.

The King of the forests of Nemi is explain by Buddha,but in fact is the short story of ADAN and EVA.

Hope I explain my self well .. .

see'a

MNE7freak - April 24, 2007 01:30 PM (GMT)
:blink: :blink: I have never heard of any of this until this series...but this is one of the best threads yet :)

VLOXY - April 24, 2007 04:44 PM (GMT)
By the way, for the sake of discussion, this Web site simply explains my ideas on the 10th dimension.

http://www.tenthdimension.com/

I actually came across this site early on while watching Eureka 7. When the episode explaining the great wall came on, that is when I made the connection. I actually do not understand why I came across the 10th dimension before that episode, but that is the way it happened.

I am glad it did because it made that episode for me a transcendent experience.

:D

Cheaster - April 24, 2007 05:05 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Eureka @ Apr 24 2007, 12:12 AM)
The real thing " The Limit of Questions philosophy , is in fact the CORAN , all about this is describe in the CORAN , all this is an Islamic Idiology, The LImit of Words.

the 10th dimension does not exist in the CORAN , is a part of the buddhist end of the world explanation , and wiith more science , the General Theory of Relativity.

In normal words .. the 10th dimension is a mirror .. we are in the other side of the mirror, but if we take a picture of the mirror you will see an infinity YOU...

Basic Physics explain that 2 object in the same universe and time can't coexist or is not allow.... But the rule can be destroy with the proof of more dimensions... We are all in the same universe, but in the other side of the mirror.

The King of the forests of Nemi is explain by Buddha,but in fact is the short story of ADAN and EVA.

Hope I explain my self well .. .

see'a

Did you say, "Islamic"? O_O

Eureka - April 24, 2007 05:29 PM (GMT)
Yep, all Islamic theories are incredible.

Cheaster - April 24, 2007 09:30 PM (GMT)
You will not believe this, I happen to be in Islam! :o Yes peoples, I am a Muslim! :D Sorry to brag! ^^;

VLOXY - April 25, 2007 02:50 AM (GMT)
Thanks for the information from all of you.
I guess I need to do some more reading to learn more, and of course, rewatch Eureka Seven. I am sure I will see something I might have missed.

darkmind89 - April 25, 2007 02:53 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Cheaster @ Apr 24 2007, 09:05 AM)
QUOTE (Eureka @ Apr 24 2007, 12:12 AM)
The real thing " The Limit of Questions philosophy , is in fact the CORAN , all about this is describe in the CORAN , all this is an Islamic Idiology, The LImit of Words.

the 10th dimension does not exist in the CORAN , is a part of the buddhist end of the world explanation , and wiith more science , the  General Theory of Relativity.

In normal words .. the 10th dimension is a mirror .. we are in the other side of the mirror, but if we take a picture of the mirror you will see an infinity YOU...

Basic Physics explain that 2 object in the same universe and time can't coexist or is not allow....  But the rule can be destroy with the proof of more dimensions... We are all in the same universe, but in the other side of the mirror.

The King of the forests of Nemi is explain by Buddha,but in fact is the short story of ADAN and EVA.

Hope I explain my self well .. .

see'a


It`s the same thing with another mirror.

kvil - April 25, 2007 04:11 AM (GMT)
wow... so much info to take it... i am going to read the golden bough

MNE7freak - April 25, 2007 12:33 PM (GMT)
very interesting topic, but all this cult talk, screw that! I find it interesting but those nuts that write books like that freak me out.

kvil - April 25, 2007 04:56 PM (GMT)
1) nice sig man
2) the KORAN scares me
3) that book is confuzzling

Cheaster - April 25, 2007 04:59 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (kvil @ Apr 25 2007, 08:56 AM)
1) nice sig man
2) the KORAN scares me
3) that book is confuzzling

*ahem* Its pronounced Koran. But in our language, its Quran.

MNE7freak - April 25, 2007 08:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (kvil @ Apr 25 2007, 08:56 AM)
1) nice sig man

thanks :)

VLOXY - April 27, 2007 07:29 PM (GMT)
Just to spur some more thought...

To me the 10th dimension (limit of questions) has nothing to do with religion. It is more of a fact of logic using semantics.

Now...the problem arises so to speak when you discount logic and semantics.

I think I understand that shows, like Eureka 7, attempt to discount the logic and semantics by coming up with new definitions for the same logic and semantics they are discounting. Old math versus new math so to speak.

Eureka Seven's unique approach to this problem is that it unites love (or if you prefer self expression and communication) with physics. It does this by the numerous references to links in the show and in the "real world" so to speak. Of course, since we have a wiki/internet, it makes that a lot easier to do now.

The creators have been very thorough and unique with their presentation in an attempt to cause people to wonder. That is why this show is so FREAKING AWESOME!

PSYCHEDELIC....

Maka - April 27, 2007 09:03 PM (GMT)
I'd just like to say "I ABSOLUTLY LOVE THIS TOPIC". Anything that makes you think REALLY DEEP into thought, just draws me to it!

Keep this thread alive, throw all your ideas and thoughts about this topic into here.

I don't really have anything to add at this time. Everything throw in here to this point has been dicussed and anything that was on my mind, was already pointed out/said by another.

Just wanted to say, great thread.


VLOXY - April 27, 2007 10:59 PM (GMT)
I have been thinking about trying to map out all of the connections that the show brings into being but I won't be able to do it properly without watching the DVDs over and over. I have gone through numerous connections linked from the Eureka 7 page and it forks around like crazy. I was even thinking today that "The End" LFO might even be a reference to the DOORS song "This Is The End." There is a big connection, in my mind, between what Anemone is going through and what happens in that song. Her ending was better though (of which I think I could spawn another thread just behind the psychology of how she kissed Dominic for the first time, that half-second quick peck on the forehead said so much).

VLOXY - April 27, 2007 11:06 PM (GMT)
...from the Eureka 7 page...

I meant to say, from the Eureka 7 Wikipedia page...

my bad....



VLOXY - April 27, 2007 11:39 PM (GMT)
Speaking of links from Eureka 7 Wiki...one of them lead to this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mathematics

I now have a headache..."I'm a Scub, I'm a Scub...SCCCCUUUBBBB"


kenshinakh - April 27, 2007 11:57 PM (GMT)
btw, thats a triple post, use edit, but its ok.

lol, im a scub

VLOXY - April 28, 2007 12:09 AM (GMT)
Sung to "Stain" by Nirvana....

Sorry about the triple post...the first one I forgot about the edit (I'm just a ref board rider), and the second one came 30 minutes later after I found more information.

Cheaster - April 28, 2007 06:06 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Maka @ Apr 27 2007, 01:03 PM)
I'd just like to say "I ABSOLUTLY LOVE THIS TOPIC". Anything that makes you think REALLY DEEP into thought, just draws me to it!

Keep this thread alive, throw all your ideas and thoughts about this topic into here.

I don't really have anything to add at this time. Everything throw in here to this point has been dicussed and anything that was on my mind, was already pointed out/said by another.

Just wanted to say, great thread.

What I can't believe that this series has something slightly involved with my religion.

kenshinakh - April 28, 2007 06:20 AM (GMT)
yeah, but now pretty much everything has a bit of religion in it. partly cause religion is so diverse. what religion?

flame0430 - April 28, 2007 06:31 AM (GMT)
VLOXY, this statement confuses me,

QUOTE
"To me the 10th dimension (limit of questions) has nothing to do with religion. It is more of a fact of logic using semantics.

Now...the problem arises so to speak when you discount logic and semantics."


I don't understand, are you saying that the existence of a 10th dimension is somehow analytically true by definition? Such as the statement, all bachelors are unmarried.

As far as I know, there is no such statement that justifies such a claim.

Cheaster - April 28, 2007 06:39 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (kenshinakh @ Apr 27 2007, 10:20 PM)
yeah, but now pretty much everything has a bit of religion in it. partly cause religion is so diverse. what religion?

Islam. I'm a Muslim. I'm surprised it is involved with this series. I had no idea some people in Japan know stuff about it. I don't know my religion fully.

VLOXY - April 28, 2007 08:23 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (flame0430 @ Apr 27 2007, 10:31 PM)
VLOXY, this statement confuses me,

QUOTE
"To me the 10th dimension (limit of questions) has nothing to do with religion. It is more of a fact of logic using semantics.

Now...the problem arises so to speak when you discount logic and semantics."


I don't understand, are you saying that the existence of a 10th dimension is somehow analytically true by definition? Such as the statement, all bachelors are unmarried.

As far as I know, there is no such statement that justifies such a claim.

Yes. Analytically true by definition as written by others.

The 10th dimension can be described as such:

"Now, as we enter the tenth dimension, we have to imagine all of the possible branches for all the possible timelines of all the possible universes and treat that as a single point in the tenth dimension. So far, so good. But this is where we hit a roadblock: if were going to imagine the tenth dimension as continuing the cycle, and being a line, then were going to have to imagine a different point that we can draw that line to. But theres no place left to go! By the time we have imagined all possible timelines for all possible universes as being a single point in the tenth dimension, it appears that our journey is done."

"In other words, all possibilities are contained within the tenth dimension, which would appear to be the concept we have just built for ourselves as we imagined the ten dimensions, built one upon another."

My fact of logic using semantics statement was meant to mean that religion is not needed to understand the 10th dimension or to justify its existence. However, religion in all its forms does exist in all possible realities as stated in the quote.

I was trying to not focus on one particular religion or concept in our discussion of the Limit Of Questions. I did not want the forum to get into an argument between religions. I wish to keep the focus on trying to discover the unique solution Eureka Seven poses to the 10th dimension question in the quote above.

At this point in the conversation, it appears that my original question has been answered. I now know what the influence is behind the theory stated in the show. But lately (the past few posts) I beagn to think about its unique relationship beyond just the show. And that is where I am now.


VLOXY - April 30, 2007 02:40 AM (GMT)
Now I am wondering...
Why was the limit of questions such a big issue for the Corallians when all they needed to do was to send 1/2 of them to another universe/dimension?
Did the power to do this arise only once the Nirvash achieved enlightenment? Was Eureka trapped in a singularity (black hole) as she was the control cluster? And once she kissed Renton, Nirvash achieved enlightenment through the emotional transmutation in her compac drive?
So now that we are "aware" of the 10th dimension, we now have to understand the overlapping of universes and dimensions. Which may or may not exist if we have created a 10th dimension that takes in all possibilities, one of which would have to be that the 10th dimension does not exist at all. Which would then make you wonder, what is everything really when we are never able to ever understand and comprehend. To be or not to be?
And, if a machine like the Nirvash can achieve enlightenment or self-awareness, that would cause the limit of questions to be breeched even further, which I would then summize perhaps that there never was a limit or a 10th dimension to begin with.
Why did I start this thread?




* Hosted for free by InvisionFree