High Elves - Bringing Classical Pain, The Macedonians meet the Old World

Well, I'm back - what can I say, the pressing urgency of university work means that procrastination is rife at the moment. Whilst I am still debating the same old points of my 40K armies, I think I have managed to get somewhere with my "classical-themed" High Elves in Fantasy.

Being a student of Classics, and doing a dissertation on Alexander and the evolution of the Macedonian military, it is natural that I would be drawn to the idea of the "Cavalry Prince" - that is to say a list geared towards a powerful character in a Silver Helm bus with a large supporting cast. Given how Alexander's army was structured, this seemed absolutely perfect (even if Alexander didn't have any Mages).

This style of list is currently in vogue, though I have tried to stamp my own feel to the army - even if I have just shamelessly ripped the Prince build off a fellow High Elf player. Without further ado, what do you think of this list?

Lords

Archmage: Level 4, Hand Weapon & Dispel Scroll.
280

Prince: Giant Blade, Shield, Dragon Armour, Helm of Fortune, Pigdeon Plucker Pendant, Talisman of Loec & Barded Elven Steed.
286

Heroes

Noble: Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor & Dawnstone.
168

Core

28 Spearmen: Full Command.
277

28 Spearmen: Full Command.
277

19 Archers: Full Command & Banner of Eternal Flame.
244

Special

9 Silverhelms: Lance, Heavy Armour & Barded Elven Steed. Full Command.
229
Note: the lack of shields is a stylistic consideration. I am well aware it would be better tactically, but in this instance theme is giving way to utility.

15 White Lions: Full Command.
255

5 Dragon Princes.
150

5 Ellyrian Reavers: Spear, Light Armour & Elven Steed. Musician.
92

5 Ellyrian Reavers: Spear, Light Armour & Elven Steed. Musician.
92

Rare

Repeater Bolt Thrower.
100

Great Eagle.
50

2500 points exactly.

The Prince, Silverhelms and Eagle take one flank; whilst I construct a battle-line out of the White Lions, both Spear units (one joined by the Battle Standard Bearer), Archers (joined by the Archmage) and Repeater Bolt Thrower; and then my other flank consists of the Dragon Princes and two Ellyrian Reaver units. Naturally this deployment can be varied depending on the opponent, his positioning and the scenario.

The idea is to pin down the enemy's combat blocks to the front with the Spearmen, while the Lions tackle the most dangerous unit in the enemy's line. The Flaming Archers and Repeater Bolt Thrower give me the options to tackle support units, Monsters from afar (firing the Archers first at anything with Regeneration) and picking the odd rank off here and there. The Cavalry elements break through the enemy's flank(s) - preferably both at the same time, but can be repositioned to provide a very concentrated attacking force. The Lord is there to motor his way through, well, largely anything and to tank hits from the rank-and-file.

I think I have managed to cover many of the bases required for an effective army - I have highly mobile units, including redirecting/support units for both flanking strikes, who can hit quite hard themselves. I have decent numbers of infantry that can be mutually supportive and cover most opponents, thanks to the Flaming Archers, the flexible Repeater Bolt Thrower and the Great Weapon-wielding White Lions, and they are able to change their formations to suit either aggressive or defensive play. I have relatively solid Leadership bubbles (General on the flank, which will meet up with the main line eventually, BSB in amongst the Spears and the Archmage with the Archers), and a decent, even if not maximised, magic phase whether casting or dispelling.

There are some things I am not too happy with. I might work on the Prince's equipment a little (Perhaps an Ogre Blade and no Pigdeon Plucker to allow for more defensive items), I am unsure if I need the Champions in the Archers/Silverhelms (currently chosen to suck up unwanted Challenges), I would have liked either more Archers or to have given them some Light Armour (it feels strange deploying an army for combat with no armour whatsoever, and 19 seems a little thin on the ground) and I was wondering about adding some Bows on the Reavers (to increase their utility as harassers and support for the Princes).

However, those are largely small considerations - the biggest thing I am struggling with is deciding a Magic Lore for my Archmage! Seredain has deployed "Life" very effectively, I have seen very good things said about "Shadows", and "High" seems to have a wide range of useful spells, but no redundancy and no "killer" spell to remove "Deathstars".

So all-in-all, what do you fine folk think of this list? Can you advise me on the most suitable Magic lore for this army, or have any suggestions regarding the smaller issues mentioned above? I appreciate you taking the time to read through this thread an I would be very grateful if you help me wring out the issues in this list.

Seredain's list by any chance? It's a build I use to great effect. The str 7 Prince with ASF is a killer. I've rolled medium units of Minotaurs before they even strike and big units of 9 in two turns of combat. I include the BSB in the silverhelm bus, and I run my bus with 10 helms.

I see you have your BSB on foot. Does he go with the spears?

I think that shadow or life are the two best spells for a HE army. Mindrazor, regrowth, vines and stoneskin are 4 very good spells combined with the HE army bonuses. I usually run the Archmage with Life and a Lvl 2 with Shadow, accompanied with the seer stone to pick my shadow spells.

Indeed - I'm trying to put my own stamp on the Prince, but he really is so killy yet still well protected that it is hard to find a different, yet effective, combination.

He does indeed - with the second Spear unit (compared to Seredain's list, that is) I have found that they really need a Leadership bonus to stick around and be effective - thus I decided that the best option would be to dismount the Battle Standard Bearer and have him run with one of the blocks instead of in the Silver Helm bus (he also provides a nice killing-power edge to the unit).

I would enjoy having a second Mage - yet I feel that I have already invested far too much in characters at this points-level - it is how I manage to have such a high model count when compared to many other High Elf armies.

In terms of Magic, I'm going to copy+paste my thoughts from another forum (thus I apologise if there is the odd sentence that does not make sense here):

High: I quite like this lore - the extra spell is not only handy (every little helps when it comes to stopping enemy wizards mauling your army) but easy to cast as well. Shield and Courage help the infantry to stick around - the cavalry are usually out of range, though I am unsure on the utility of Courage with the BSB sitting in with the Spears. Curse is quite a nice spell, it works well with the Flaming Archers and the Repeater Bolt Thrower (I remember taking down a Hell Pit Abomination this way - making sure to fire the Archers first, of course, so that it couldn't regenerate the Bolt Thrower hits). Fury is excellent, for helping to remove harassment units and anything that fails to charge the Archers. Flames looks like a nice spell and did some damage to Empire and Skaven troops, and being Remains in Play could be useful in this edition (if it goes through, the enemy then has to waste Power Dice getting rid of it, if I am remembering the rules correctly), particularly with my more defensive-geared magic; though I do worry that it doesn't quite have the "oomph" I would like, that something such as Dwellers Below or Pit of Shades brings - sometimes there are threats to the army that absolutely have to die there and then.

Fire: Seems like it is *too* offensive and not quite strong enough for my tastes. Having the extra hits/power from Fire-Cloak and Flaming Sword are nice, but at the same time Elves are fragile and I would prefer something that helps them get through the fight, rather than avenging them/working first. The rest of the spells just don't seem to grab me.

Beasts: This could work, though I think it may be outclassed by High/Shadow/Life. Wildheart is a nice bonus, particularly with Amber Spear. However, the lore seems too focused on buffing single models for my liking - though Amber Spear and Flock of Doom would be nice additions to my Archers. Wildform would add a little durability too, S4/T4 Spearmen sound like a nice anvil unit (or S5(7)/T4 White Lions) but other lores can out-do this spell. The Curse of Anraheir seems a little...meh. Pann's Impenetrable Pelt and Savage Beast of Horros are just going to be zapped by the enemy as soon as they're needed, but I could see some utility out of these as the Battle Standard Bearer should be within range most of the time (T6/2+ re-rollable AS or 6 Str9 attacks). The Transformation spell looks like fun, but I can't see it being very useful until you have taken out the enemy Casters, War Machines and possibly (depending on which Transformation) Handguns/Bows. Relatively low casting values overall, but not the lowest.

Metal: It trounces high-armoured foes, and so has limited use against things the army may struggle with, chiefly being horrifically outnumbered by hordes. I don't think it is worth dedicating a Level 4 to casting.

Light: Seems like a nice way to help take out the peskier foes, namely those that can replenish themselves. However, it seems that it doesn't complement the High Elves too well. Birona's Timewarp could be handy, but it seems like Shadow handles this kind of buff better.

Life: Lifebloom looks like a nice way of replenishing a Mage after miscasts, lucky shots and so on. A good range of spells, but it does seem like it is going to be very easy to predict - start off by getting Throne of Vines up, then throw out the others as needed - ones the opponent will be watching out for are Flesh to Stone and Dwellers Below. Relatively potent, but I do worry that the opponent will be able to decide what to let through and what to shut down relatively easily (thus handing the initiative to him).

Heavens: The Roiling Skies bonus against Flyers is nice - it would help my list maintain the mobility advantage. Iceshard Blizzard looks easy to cast, but in the game where BSBs and Generals are usually present in the line, I am not so sure - it could be handy for anything that has charged out of range of the aforementioned heroes towards my Mage/Archers though. Harmonic Convergence is a nice buff, and easy to cast. I am unsure about Wind Blast now that charge distances are more random. Curse of the Midnight Wind doesn't sound too impressive for the casting costs. Urannon's Thunderbolt looks like it might be quite potent, especially against Flying units/monsters (D6 Str6 + D6 Str4) - it's a long-ranged chariot, it seems, and can be made very long range. Perhaps handy against War Machines too. Comet of Casandora seems too random and too dangerous to my own mobile list, but could be quite nice for driving War Machines and move-or-fire units into difficult situations. Chain Lightning sounds nice, but I wonder how many enemy units are really ever in 6" of each other - it's a harder-to-cast and shorter-ranged Thunderbolt in that case.

Shadow: Smoke and Mirrors is unlikely to be used. A pity - especially as I can only swap for the BSB, which may go just as pear-shaped. Miasma looks like a nice hex, easy to cast in both variations. Steed might be useful to evade combat, but seems limited. Enfeebling is another nice hex to support our fragile infantry in combat, as is Withering. Penumbral Pendulum might be useful, but that looks to be very dependant on positioning - and whilst you can roll 36" range, you can also get 6" (or 72/12" at a hard-to-cast level), though it could be great to make up for only having one Bolt Thrower. Pit is awesome, and a perfect answer to Steam Tanks, though it is less reliable than Dwellers Below. Mindrazor is fantastic thanks to our generally high Leadership across the board, particularly on a unit of Spearmen that are bogged down - 4 ranks attacking at Str8? Yes please.

Death: Life Leeching looks like a nice way to buff your own magic phase without the expense of the Banner of Sorcery. Has low casting values too. Spirit Leech could be handy, but it only works against one model, and would have to be cast at long range since it would be from an Archer unit; though it might have some use against Monsters. Aspect of the Dreadnight could be handy to avoid unfortunate Fear-tests when attacking some big nasty, but otherwise doesn't seem like much of a buff. Caress of Laniph also looks handy, though is very much dependant on a good roll, and like Spirit Leech could have some use against Monsters. Soulblight could be a nice hex, particularly in its all-unit mode before the chargers strike. Doom and Darkness could work with this army, thanks to the static combat res from the Spearmen and the huge kills from the cavalry. Fate of Bjuna looks excellent against many enemy characters, however the short range is likely to be problematic in the context of this army. Purple Sun looks deadly, but the random distance and chance of it going off on your own troops is not appealing, especially after overcoming the 15/25+ to cast and avoiding miscasts!

That's my thoughts on magic...I still haven't been able to pick one! I think I have split them into tiers:

Strong: Heavens, High, Shadow
Reasonable: Life, Beasts, Death
Unsuitable: Fire, Light, Metal

But what I actually should take, I do not know.


I am thinking that I might make a few small changes to the list - chiefly, I want my Dragon Princes to have a Musician, so that is potentially a straight-swap with the Hawkeye - though I am enjoying having full Command on my "core" units (including the Silver Helms). I am contemplating dropping a few Archers (2-5) to get another Silver Helm or two as well (dropping 5 would give me a unit of 14 Archers, an extra 2 Silver Helms and the Musician for the Princes). Do you think this could be a good idea?

When I run archers, it is usually 15 - 20. Sometimes I see the difference 5 archers makes, sometimes I don't. I generally always see the bonus of an extra Helm or two. In the latter half of the game when the Infantry has caught up, these guys are hitting flanks while the Infantry is hitting fronts. Being able to negate ranks due to still having a second rank is where you win big time. Elves don't do attrition well as I'm sure you know so I put a lot of emphasis on trying to steam roll opponents, especially my main opponents Minotaurs and Beastmen with big axes.

Honestly, the only time I would use 20 archers are points fillers and mage bunkers. In saying that, I almost never field 10, so usually start with 15 and no unit upgrades. However Tread, you have a theme going and it's one you have had on the go for a while so none of this is "this is what you should do", just what I would do.

The Lore's. As above, you need to pick something that suits your game. I did forget about High Magic, which is a serious contender due to low casting levels of the spells and still quite handy on the battle field. I'm sort of over spells like Dwellers. I still like the Lifeblooms and Regrowth but find Dwellers to be too much of a game changer to be honest. I agree totally about the three unsuitable's, I have only fielded the Fire Lore once due to wanting to try a Dragon Mage and wasn't that impressed really. The Mage on Dragon was fun though. A real glass hammer unit.

I don't really think you can go too far wrong with most of the lores when using High Elves.

Don't even try mate. I have followed Seredain's thread at Ulthuan, and I've yet to see or use an improvement on what he has to offer.

Really good to see you are sticking to your theme Tread. Hopefully you can get some games in (if you haven't already) and see how it goes.