Well I'm taking American Lit. right now, and we've been writing papers on various board subjects, and I really don't know much about america compared to what I know about china. So on every paper I would realte it to China. I just read "The Great Gastby" and now, my teacher posed a joke to me, saying lets see you realte this to China. And frankly I plan to, I just need a better understanding of the Han Society, the upper part of it (cause one of the Themes is elitism). PLease help, any information is welcomed and wanted

The elitism of the Western Jin, Eastern Jin and Southern Dynasties scholar-aristocracy (shizu 士族) was taken to great extremes. A scholar-aristocrat needed a pedigree of several generations of ancestors who were ministers in the Han dynasty, and this pedigree became so important that aristocratic clans would keep elaborate genealogies to prove it. If you weren't a scholar-aristocrat, you couldn't get a high position in government, and could probably only be a lower-ranking general or a clerk. That's because the selection process for government posts was dominated by other rich, snobbish aristocrats (anyone thinking of John Kerry and George Bush yet?), who had nothing but disdain for men of lesser birth.

It became almost like a caste system - aristocrats could only marry other aristocrats, and if an aristocratic clan that had fallen on hard times took in a commoner son-in-law because he was rich, it would be exposed to much ridicule and condemnation. If a non-aristocrat or even a lower aristocrat visited a high-class aristocrat and sat on one of his mats (chairs didn't exist at that time), the high-class aristocrat might even burn the mat after his guest left to show how mindful he was of class distinctions.

This elitist aristocratic system began to soften somewhat when the Sui and Tang dynasties introduced the examination system to select government officials, but the successful candidates still tended to be from aristocratic families, simply because they could afford a much better education. It was only after the fall of the Tang and the Five Dynasties that the aristocracy faded from the scene, most of them having been scattered or slaughtered in the civil wars. During the Song dynasty, a new elite emerged, one that had no Han dynasty or Southern Dynasties pedigree and had been selected purely through the examination system. This meritocratic elite is commonly known as the scholar-gentry (shishen 士绅 or shidafu 士大夫), and it remained the elite of Chinese society until the end of the Qing dynasty and the founding of the Republic.

I think elitism is still strong in China today.

Here is a summeryt of the "Great Gatsby" story.

To help the Ghost, are there any Chinese stories that Wealth and power corupt people... How about probverbs that worn people of wealth and power?

Have any of you guys heard of Shi Chong 石崇, the most notorious rich man in Chinese history? The Western Jin period saw an immense obsession with money among the elite, with extremes of extravagance and miserliness. Shi Chong was by far the most extravagant of all.

Shi Chong was born in 249, the youngest son of Shi Bao 石苞, a trusted subordinate of the Sima house who had risen to the rank of Grand Marshal (大司马). Shi Chong in his childhood showed intelligence, quick thinking, and physical courage. His father died in 272, when he was 23. On his deathbed, Shi Bao distributed his wealth to his five other sons, but left none to Shi Chong. When Shi Chong's mother asked him why, he said, "This boy may be young now, but one day he will be more than able to gain his own wealth."

Because of his father's prestige, Shi Chong became a county magistrate by his mid-20s, produced impressive results, and rose to the posts of Junior Consultant (Sanqi Shilang 散骑侍郎) and then Prefect of Chengyang. He took part in the Jin conquest of Wu in 280, for which he was rewarded with the aristocratic title of Marquis of Anyang Village (安阳乡侯). Though very busy as a Prefect, he continued studying the Classics to the point that he fell ill and asked to be relieved of his post. Sima Yan (Jin Wudi) was much impressed by his abilities, and raised him to be first a Senior Consultant (Sanqi Changshi 散骑常侍) and then a Counsellor (Shizhong 侍中) in the imperial court.

In 290, when Sima Yan died and was succeeded by the retarded Sima Zhong, Sima Yan's father-in-law Yang Jun dominated the imperial court and freely handed out aristocratic fiefs to win the favour of the courtiers. Every official in the empire was promoted by one rank, and officials from prefect upwards were all enfeoffed as Marquises. Shi Chong was very unhappy about this move, as he felt it cheapened the status of the aristocracy. He submitted a petition warning that if the generous handing out of fiefs went on, within a few generations everyone in the empire would be an aristocrat. However, this petition offended Yang Jun and led to Shi Chong being posted out of the capital as the governor of Jingzhou.

In Jingzhou, Shi Chong realised that he was in control of a major crossroads for trade and transport in the empire, and decided to use his semi-exile to make a killing. Shi Chong was smart and capable (颖悟有才气), but had the unrestrained personality of a Xia (任侠无行检). Even though he was the governor, he simply robbed passing merchants and envoys, confiscating their goods, profits or gifts and keeping them for himself. With this ill-gotten wealth, he built a beautiful mansion for himself, amassed more than a hundred concubines, ate rare delicacies for every meal, and bought instruments of the highest quality for his musicians to play.

Shi Chong received word that he was being posted back to the capital as Minister of Farming, and in his excitement he set out for Luoyang without waiting for the official letter of appointment to arrive. When he arrived in Luoyang, he found out that his breaking of protocol had cost him the post. He was to be posted out again, this time to be in charge of military affairs in Xuzhou. Nonetheless, Shi Chong didn't let this turn of events get him down. He had a luxurious villa in Gold Valley (金谷), on the north bank of the Yellow River, and held a big going-away party there. The capital was emptied of its aristocracy, as everyone flocked there to set up tents and drink wine.

But when Shi Chong got to Xuzhou, he got in trouble again. He challenged the Governor of Xuzhou, Gao Dan, to a drinking contest, and then insulted him when drunk. He was stripped of his post and sent back to the capital. But at this point, he met with another stroke of luck. The power-hungry Empress Jia Nanfeng had eliminated her rivals Yang Jun and Sima Liang in 291, and her nephew Jia Mi was now a powerful man in the imperial court. Jia Mi wished to gather around himself a salon of the best poets and luminaries in Luoyang, and this group surely could not do without Shi Chong, the richest man in the capital. Shi Chong was quickly appointed Minister of the Palace Guards, and happily joined Jia Mi's salon of "Twenty-four Companions" (二十四友). Among these Companions was also Pan Yue 潘岳, the pretty boy poet mentioned in a previous thread. Pan Yue and Shi Chong were the two Companions closest to Jia Mi. Whenever his horse carriage met the carriage of Jia Nanfeng's mother (Jia Mi's grandmother) Guo Huai 郭槐 on the streets of Luoyang, Shi Chong would move his carriage to the side, get off, and prostrate himself in the dust as Guo Huai's carriage went by, as though she were his own mother.

Even before 290, Shi Chong had become famous for his contests of wealth with two other rich aristocrats in Luoyang, Wang Kai 王恺 and Yang Xiu 羊琇. Both were uncles of Sima Yan and had great prestige, and Shi Chong competed with them (especially with Wang Kai) to see who was more opulent and extravagant. Wang Kai used water sweetened with sugar to wash his pots; Shi Chong then used heaps of candles as firewood. When Wang Kai went on a picnic, he would surround his area with a 40 li screen of purple silk; Shi Chong went one up and used 50 li of patterned brocade. Shi Chong used pepper (a rare imported spice at the time) to decorate his walls; Wang Kai then used a rare herbal medicine.

Sima Yan (who was still alive and emperor at the time) did what he could to help his uncle save face. Once he sent Wang Kai a large tree made of shining coral, a priceless luxury item from the south. Wang Kai showed his coral tree off to Shi Chong, upon which Shi Chong took out an iron hammer and smashed it. Wang Kai was furious and accused Shi Chong of jealousy. Shi Chong calmly replied, "Keep your head on, I'll give you something better." At his command, his servants brought out six or seven coral trees that were even larger and more beautiful, and presented them to Wang Kai. Wang Kai was absolutely flabbergasted.

Another time, Wang Kai found he could not beat Shi Chong in three things:
1) When a guest arrived at Shi Chong's house, Shi merely had to give a command and warm bean porridge would be served up immediately, even though beans take time to cook well.
2) Even in winter, Shi Chong could season his food with chopped chives.
3) Whenever Wang Kai and Shi Chong raced their ox-carts to see who could get into the city first, Shi Chong would win - his ox seemed as fast as a bird!

Wang Kai gave a big bribe to one of Shi Chong's servants, and the servant revealed the secret:
1) The beans were cooked in advance and kept on standby - when needed they would simply be thrown into the porridge.
2) The chives were actually preserved chive roots, pounded and mixed with wheat seedlings.
3) When driving an ox-cart, one should try not to control the ox but rather give free rein to it.
Having learned these methods, Wang Kai put them into practice and Shi Chong lost his edge. Later, Shi Chong found out that the servant had given his secrets away, and had him killed.

Shi Chong could be equally merciless to his servant girls. When he entertained guests, he would have ten or more beautiful girls serving wine to them. If a guest declined to go on drinking, even to avoid getting drunk, Shi Chong would order the girl serving that guest to be killed. If the guest continued to decline, Shi Chong would kill the next girl assigned to him. In one instance, three serving girls were killed one after the other. The toilets in Shi Chong's house were also beautifully decorated, and ten or more servant girls would always be in attendance on the male guests who used the toilet, with perfumes and powders at the ready.

But Shi Chong fell in love with one of his serving girls - a beauty named Luzhu 绿珠 (Green Pearl), who played the bamboo flute with great skill. This was to be his downfall. In 300, Jia Nanfeng and Jia Mi were overthrown and executed by the Prince of Zhao, Sima Lun. Because of his close association with Jia Mi, Shi Chong was dismissed from his post. But Sun Xiu, Sima Lun's advisor and hatchet man, wanted more - he desired Luzhu for himself, and sent his men to get her. Shi Chong was then at his villa in Gold Valley, enjoying the breeze at the top of a tower with his concubines and servant girls. When Sun Xiu's messenger arrived and announced his intentions, Shi Chong presented more than twenty of his other concubines, each dressed up beautifully, and asked the messenger to choose any of them. The messenger would not be dissuaded, and said, "Your Excellency's concubines are indeed pretty, but my orders are to get Luzhu, which one of them is she?" Shi Chong exploded with rage, and said, "Luzhu is the woman I love, and she's not yours for the taking!" The messenger replied with a veiled threat: "Your Excellency is a learned man and knows his history - I would urge Your Excellency to consider more carefully." Shi Chong simply said, "No." The messenger left and returned a few times, but each time the result was the same.

Shi Chong knew that Sun Xiu would not let the matter rest - furthermore, his nephew Ouyang Jian (another famed poet and member of the 24 Companions) had offended Sima Lun by exposing his wrongdoings to the imperial court in 296, while his friend Pan Yue had once beaten Sun Xiu mercilessly when the latter was just a humble clerk on his staff. Thus, Shi Chong, Ouyang Jian and Pan Yue secretly approached the princes Sima Yun and Sima Jiong, and urged them to eliminate Sima Lun and Sun Xiu. Sima Yun did lead a coup against Sima Lun soon after, but was defeated and killed. Sima Lun then found out about the parts played by Shi Chong, Ouyang Jian and Pan Yue in the conspiracy. He had an edict issued by the puppet emperor Sima Zhong, ordering the arrest of these three men.

Shi Chong was having a banquet in the tower at Gold Valley when the guards came to arrest him. He turned to Luzhu and told her, "My dear, I've become a criminal for your sake." Luzhu burst into tears, and said, "Let me repay you with my life!" She then leapt to her death from the tower. Shi Chong was heartbroken, but told himself, "I'll only be exiled to the far south at the most." But soon the guards led his carriage to the execution ground, and he sighed, "You scoundrels are just after my wealth!" The leader of the guards said to him mockingly, "Since you know that wealth is a source of disaster, why didn't you get rid of it sooner?" Shi Chong could find no answer to this question. He was beheaded that day, at the age of 51, and his entire clan was beheaded with him. Also killed were Ouyang Jian and Pan Yue, and their clans with them - every man, woman and child.

Thats a great story, I think I'll use that example with the pepper in my report, but I'm looking for the Han Social Structure. As I understood it, if you worked hard enough you could become a high ranking offical. The whole thing with the distirct exams made that possible.

That was only the case after the examination system was instituted in the Sui and Tang, and it took until the Song dynasty to really become the norm. Before that, your entry into government depended on the recommendation of government-appointed Evaluators in your province, and they would usually choose you based on your pedigree rather than your ability.

There are rare cases of commoners making it to the top of the ladder - Zhang Hua, Palace Secretary in the Western Jin from 291 to 300, was one of them. Although his father had been a Prefect under the Wei dynasty, he grew up as an impoverished orphan because his family had fallen on hard times after the death of his father.

Another such person was Shan Tao, whose father had been a county magistrate but also died early. He rose to be State Secretary of Personnel in the 260s and 270s.

However, men like these two were truly exceptionally bright, which is why they caught the notice of the government from an early age. For every Zhang Hua or Shan Tao, there would be many more men who came to their positions by virtue of their birth, although many of these men could be highly talented as well. Zhang Hua and Shan Tao actually tried to address this situation by using their positions to help other talented men of disadvantaged backgrounds.

A book that may help you with regard to the social structure of the Han dynasty, and is very worth a read, is "Everyday life in early Imperial China during the Han period, 202 BC- AD 220" by Michael Loewe. It's a classic, written in 1968 - go look for it in the library!

I understand the Liu Bang, was a commoner, and he archived his power differently but, still he made his way up. Liu Bei, before he proved his imperial lineage was going up. I don't think this is historical, but MArshal Gao in Outlaws of the marsh gor up there too (I understand its not the Han). And plenty of Eunuchs have got power from being nothing. They are different ways of getting power then what we had talked about, but it still just shows lower people could get power. My understanding is still very, very limited, so Any information is welcomed and Wanted.

These are indeed different ways to the top that you've mentioned:

Liu Bang led a rebellion and was the first commoner to become emperor, but he then (rather reluctantly) turned to using high-born Confucian scholars in his government.

Liu Bei gathered talented men to himself and served under other warlords (including aristocrats like Liu Biao and Yuan Shao) before becoming a warlord in his own right through military conquest. However, his rise had alot to do with the assistance of Zhuge Liang, who was from an aristocratic family.

Gao Qiu of the Water Margin (aka Outlaws of the Marsh) is fictional, but there were indeed men like him who got to the top by sucking up to powerful officials or emperors, or pandering to their tastes for a certain kind of recreation (in Gao Qiu's case, it was football). The Chinese have a name for that class of people in court: ningxing (sycophants and toadies), and they are thoroughly reviled.

The eunuchs, too, usually got power by being sycophants of an emperor or empress. They also took advantage of the emperor's suspicions of powerful ministers to advance their own careers. Once they achieved power, their survival depended on staying in the emperor's good books and keeping the ministers down, and this would usually lead to bloody confrontations and great corruption.

Normally, in those times the only two situations in which commoners would have great opportunities for advancement were: civil war and disorder (as seen in the rise of Liu Bang and Liu Bei), and corruption in the imperial court (as seen in Gao Qiu and the eunuchs). Under normal circumstances, the dominance of the aristocratic elite would be very hard to shake, because they controlled almost all the channels for personnel selection.

Upon rereading this I don't understand that sentence?

Well, read the whole thread about the Xia again... the characteristics of the Xia are that he doesn't keep to the rules and laws of society, and does what he likes (often by using violence).

I don't know if Zhuge's assistance is that big a factor, mind you my opinion is most coming from the book so its probalable to say I could be wrong. Zhuge was not highranking, I believe his parnets were up there, but he was orphan. In 198 Liu Bei had already became Left General (作将军, Zuo Jiang Jun), this is still nine years before the work together. Zhuge Liang worked on a farm and owned very little. Here's a quote from "Mastering the Art of War" Translated by Thomas Cleary
Part of Zhuge Liang's will

Even though he was respected I don't think it was his high status that helped Liu Bei. I think Liu Bei came to power, do to his honesty and virtue (that is probably amplified with Luo's bias for Shu), his lingae to the throne, and arguable some of the best millitary men, both miltary and civil. I would compare Liu Bei's rise to the throne, alot like Liu Bang's. I do argee that Zhuge help Liu Bei get there, but I don't think it was because of his Social Status.