One of my primary disappointments with the AGOT d20 system was its lack of portability to other settings; the majority of this problem is the lack of a magic system. Yes, I know magic didn't really appear until CoK, but with GoO's apparent failure to publish the CoK sourcebook, it's up to the fans to come up with a viable magic system faithful to, or at least in the spirit of, GRRM's universe. Perferably something that's portable to other settings utilizing AGOT d20 rules, rather than completely setting-specific and dependent.

The Red Priest PrC is a good first step. It might even be interesting to make each type of caster a different PrC, each with limited but scary level-based powers, but I'm still interested in a more standard "plug and play" spellcasting system that works with the AGOT d20 rules.

Has anyone done any work on this subject?

I have to say that I'm wary of creating a magic system for the RPG for a few reasons.

1) It seems that the manner in which Mr. Martin has implemented magic would indicate that have a PrC for each of the major magic users would be the best way to do things.

2) Magic is still very rare and unknown/mysterious, even by the 4th book.



I had a few others that don't come to mind at the moment, but I could say that it seems most of my reasons stem from the simple fact that I do not believe anyone except Mr. Martin (who has also made it quite clear that he feels a 'magic system' takes away the mystery and wonder of 'magic') has enough information on the magic in ASOIAF to properly create a magic system yet.

That being said, I would have felt nothing but pity for the game designers that would have had to do it for CoK. I don't think it could be properly done at this point.

I have been known to be wrong though ;)

Again, my reasons for requesting a magic system are primarily for portability of the AGOT d20 rules set to other, non-ASoIaF settings that are similarly gritty and magic rare (not necessarily magic weak). I'm not so much concerned with what's in the books or what GRRM would write in future. I just want something NOW, with a similar feel. Something that would work with any setting, or AGOT set in the distant past or far future.

I understand that a clearly defined "system" would take away much of the mystery of ASoIaF, but this is an RPG--it needs rules, IMO (other than "sorry--no one can play a spellcaster"). :rolleyes:

What do you have in mind? Spells that can be cast on the fly, like D&D? You have to be -real- careful about adding magic to the system, simply because -any- damaging spell unbalances the game.

Well, no fireballs, lol--that's all played out. Have you ever read Chris Bunch's The Seer King trilogy? I like 'em almost as much as ASoIaF, but they're faster reads and much smuttier--but magic rare with a unique, well-developed setting and culture. Magicians there all serve the state but military applications of magic were poo-pooed as unsporting and impractical... Until one enterprising usurper with a Napoleon complex came along and turned the world upside down. :P

Anyway, a lot of the typical spells there are ones that are cast "sight unseen"--meaning there is no visible magical effect, yet suddenly people are bending to the caster's will. I'm talking D&D equivalents of mind-affecting spells, like Command, Cause Fear, Hold Person, Remove Fear, Charm Person, Suggestion, Fear, Mass Charm, Domination, etc. These have practical military AND political applications without being flashy. So a PrC like Tome & Blood's "Mindbender" (might have the name wrong) would be along those lines.

Then there is trafficking with demons, making pacts and all that, for those who crave more power, such as summon monster (all planar fiends). Similar to the shadow assassin in CoK, but more diverse entities are available.

Anyway, those are the kinds of spells I'm thinking of, plus the ones from Call of Cthulhu d20--Heck, it should be possible to just graft that system onto AGOT now that I think about it! It's classless--anyone can learn spells, but they reduce your sanity and ability scores (some permanently), thus limiting the number you can cast, both per day and forever... That would require adding CoC's Sanity score and rules, but that's not a big deal. We could also add their psionics system.

Damn it--did I just answer my own question? :blink:

Of course, I own CoC d20 (never used it but liked it), but it's OOP, so that limits its usefulness to anyone who wants to use it for AGOT. :rolleyes:

Hmm. If you wanted to do that, the simplest fix at this level would be to allow D&D spells from the Enchantment and Divination schools, and then on a case-by-case basis with Conjuration, Abjuration, Necromancy, Evocation (VERY few and far between), and Transmutation. Spells that deal direct damage to individuals should be right out.

The more powerful spells could be rituals only, requiring lots of prep time, willing participants and perhaps some sacrifices...

These major spells did exsist in ages past

It seems Magic, for the most part, ended during King Aegon III The Dragonbane, some where between year 131 — 157.

The Doom of Valyria happen about 400 years ago. I would guess that was the first step to the slow down of magic and then killing the last dragon some 130 years ago, was the final straw.

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If you want to add magic, I would look at just enchantment type spells and maybe a few abjuration, conjuration (like produce flame type), and some Necromancy ones.

If you ask me, the magic system in ASoIaF is less balanced then the one in D&D Mesilandre killed a guy (twice), with no line of sight, and I'm pretty sure he didn't get a save. :D.

*might be some spoiers kids*
I don't want to sound like a nay-sayer but I'm with Jayden. It doesn't seem like you can be taught magic in ASoIaF. I mean that in the sense that it doens't seem like a adults can be taught magic. Everyone who has a bit o' the power has been a lifelong devotee in the books, which makes me see it as, you can be taught magic, but you have to a youngster, and be brought up in it. (I could see Arya learning to cast a wee bit while in that temple).

Sidenote: Would you consider green-seeing and wargmanship magic? Or sort of a second brand of magic tied more to the children of the forest/blood of the first men than dragons or some other source.

I like magic the way it is: feat based. Because it works so well, and fits the flavor of the books so well.

Secondary Sidenote: I was going to present the following argument: that bran lost his legs, and therefore gained bp and took dreams and warg with the BP. My questions is this: Do you think Bran would have still been a warg and had greendreams without being crippled?

In the old "Charlamagne" setting, what they did was require everyone to be a specialist wizard. However, rather than having restricted schools and such that you couldn't access for specialist, they had it so you could only cast spells from your school.

I'd say that you can be taught magic in ASoIaF. That one Maester at the end of a Feast for Crows seemed to have some magic in him that he taught himself, and the Alchemists had their traditions and customs that seemed to get passed down. The old witch (sorry I'm forgetting all the characters names) said she was taught dark magic as well.

I'd say that the way to go would be to come up with ASoIaF-appropriate "schools" of magic and generate spell lists for each of them. As for how one would go about acquiring it- probably a prestige class or something. Or possibly feats that let you access certain levels of spells for a given school.

*shrug*

Just tossing that out as an idea.

Well Patrucio, it turns out that Aeivys has been remarkable at creating prestige classes that contain spell like abilities suitable to their discipline. Personally I have found that to be my preferred method of incorperating magic, in conjunction with the feat based magic described in the RPG book.

I think people are able to be taught magic, however it also seems as though those who have the ability are very precise about whom they teach. It seems joining a faith or an organization is necessary in most cases. Yes, there is the example of a self taught Maester, though he likely had studied over old tomes that contained information long thought to be the fiction of a fanciful author.

As for Bran...I'm sure in game terms the BP theory holds true...as for the rest...

It's hard to say if the crow would have found him had he not suffered a great trauma and been comatose. Perhaps he would have grown to be a strong knight, and the first time he suffered a great wound he may have had his inborn abilities awakened in a similar manner. We'll never know, will we? I suppose all we do know is that Greenseers seem to be survivors of great trauma. (What was Jojen's...I cannot recall at the moment...)

Jojen had a deadly fever from which he recovered. It seems that you need to get close to death in order to meet the three-eyed crow.

As for a magic system for AGOT... why bother creating one specifically for it when, as you say, you only want it there so that it can be ported to other games? Why not just port along a different system's magic when needed?

Of course, as you can guess, I prefer to keep magic feat-based or PrC-based in my game (makes it difficult and rare and not cookie-cutter). I think I'll be pretty happy with the magical options available to my players once I'm done making PrCs (Faceless Man, Warlock of Qarth, and Arcane Maester are all on my list).

If you are looking for a gritty type system with magic being a rare thing I'd look at one of a couple sources. Look at GURPS especially around the Dune setting with very little and quite subtle magic. There is also Deadlands. Never played in the second but the way it sounds is a burnt out world.

I was frustrated with the GOT roleplaying d 20 game, so I just ran a normal campaign with d20 core rules, but used the called shots, and action points in the game as well as some extra feats for house members at first level. As far as magic is concerned its very low level in the books.
Characters would also have to be trained to use these, but would have to use HP one per level of spell to cast them, which would be subdual damage to character, thus making it harder to cast. And dangerous. Once again staying within the spirit of the books. Magic is fairly deadly and creepy taking from something to get an effect. These spells make sense. Some would require ritual magic to fulfil and probably some sort of sacrifice at higher levels. Spells should also have no visible effects when cast, such as shocking grasp, the touch would just do damage, perhaps the hand would radiate a black aura when cast. Up to the DM. If you play a mage character, you would be more apt with weapons and or armor and probably have 1d6 hp instead of 1d4. And Armor would not effect spellcasting. Its up to the DM to streamline his Shadowbinder or Blue Warlock to adapt to the campaign. Definitely no familliars, but animal followers or or Druids shapechange ability would make sense for wargs or skinchangers.


0th-level Spell
· Daze
· Disrupt Undead
· Ghost Sound
· Mage Hand
· Mending
· Prestidigitation

1st-level Spells

· Animate Rope
· Burning Hands
· Cause Fear
· Change Self
· Charm Person
· Chill Touch
· Detect Poison
· Endure Elements
· Expeditious Retreat
· Hypnotism
· Identify
· Magic Weapon
· Message
· Obscuring Mist
· Ray of Enfeeblement
· Shocking Grasp
· Silent Image
· Sleep
· True Strike
· Unseen Servant
· Ventriloquism
2nd-level Spells
· Alter Self
· Blindness/Deafness
· Continual Flame
· Darkness
· Darkvision
· Detect Thoughts
· Fog Cloud
· Ghoul Touch
· Hypnotic Pattern
· Levitate
· Locate Object
· Minor Image
· Mirror Image
· Misdirection
· Obscure Object
· Pyrotechnics
· Resist Elements
· Scare
· See Invisibility
· Shatter
· Whispering Wind
3rd-level Spells
· Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
· Dispel Magic
· Greater Magic Weapon
· Gust of Wind
· Hold Person
· Illusory Script
· Keen Edge
· Major Image
· Nondetection
· Protection from Elements
· Suggestion
· Tongues
· Vampiric Touch
4th-level Spells
· Arcane Eye
· Bestow Curse
· Charm Monster
· Confusion
· Contagion
· Detect Scrying
· Emotion
· Fear
· Fire Trap
· Hallucinatory Terrain
· Lesser Geas
· Locate Creature
· Minor Creation
· Phantasmal Killer
· Remove Curse
· Scrying
· Shadow Conjuration
· Summon Monster (Ritual) up to DM
5th-level Spells
· Animate Dead
· Cloudkill
· Contact Other Plane (Ritual)
· Dismissal
· Dominate Person
· Dream
· Fabricate
· False Vision
· Feeblemind
· Greater Shadow Conjuration
· Major Creation
· Mirage Arcana
· Nightmare
· Passwall
· Persistent Image
· Prying Eyes
· Rary's Telepathic Bond
· Sending
· Shadow Evocation
· Telekinesis
6th-level Spells
· Analyze Dweomer
· Antimagic Field
· Contingency
· Control Water
· Control Weather
· Eyebite
· Guards and Wards
· Geas/Quest
· Greater Dispelling
· Legend Lore
· Mass Suggestion
· Mislead
· Move Earth
· Permanent Image
· Planar Binding
· Programmed Image
· Project Image
· Repulsion
· Shades
· True Seeing
7th-level Spells
· Banishment
· Control Undead
· Finger of Death
· Greater Scrying
· Insanity
· Power Word, Stun
· Shadow Walk
· Spell Turning
· Vision
8th-level Spells
· Antipathy
· Demand
· Discern Location
· Etherealness
· Mind Blank
· Power Word, Blind
· Protection from Spells
· Symbol
· Sympathy
· Trap the Soul
9th-level Spells
· Astral Projection
· Dominate
· Energy Drain
· Foresight
· Power Word, Kill