There is still a lot of ironing out to do here. I wasn't sure whether to incorporate the wine of courage into the unsullieds class abilities, or to keep it sepparate as something everybody could in theory have access to. Without making the latter an impossibility, I incorporated it by implying long term exposure for certain unsullied bonus's.

I tried to make the unsullied a well disciplined military unit. Some things I took into account were their insistence upon fortifying a position before they sleep, their faithful, and unbalking adherance to orders, their unwavering resolve yet their lack of personal will, their unyielding presence on the battlefield, their organization in combat, their slightly lesser strength due to the clipping, but their higher constitution(as a nod to them being 1 in 3 of the surviving chldren in training), their reliance on the wine of courage, the fact that they do not feel pain as other
men do, the sheer value of unsullied as slaves, the tests they must pass, the empty expressions, their mastery of the 3 spears and the short sword..etc.

BAB BDB and saves are the same as the fighter's. Still trying to figure out what I should do with unsullied reputation.

Background – Unsullied Stock

As a young boy you were taken and genitally mutilated. From five years old you
have Endured rigorous training and you are one of the 1 in 3 survivors of that
training. You Know that you are less than nothing. You are dirt and scum. You
have learned not to love. You may hate pain but you fear nothing. There is
nothing that can be done to you that you do not deserve – that you will shy from.
There is no order you will not obey. You were given a puppy, and took care of it
for a year. When you were told to strangle
it you didn’t hesitate.

Penalties –

Castrated
- 2 strength.
You do not disobey orders

Benefits

+2 constitution
You cannot be shaken, frightened, panicked or intimidated. Nor can you be
influenced. It is not that you are strong willed. You have no will. Yours is the
will of your owner. Enemies get a – 2 to sense motive checks against you.

…………………


UNSULLIED

Prerequisites - background - unsullied stock, must have been in the possession of
slavers up to this point. Most of your remembered life, you have
been training to be an unsullied. This class cannot be cross-
classed to.

Hitpoints

You gain 10 hit-points at 1st level + con bonus, and 3 every level thereafter.

Influence

You gain only your charisma modifier in influence per level.

Weapon Proficiencies

You are proficient with the short sword, all spears, and shields.



………………………

* All combat abilities are contingent upon the unsullied’s constant exposure to the
wine of courage. If he has been weaned off of this wine or if he has lost access
to it, reduce all relevant bonuses to ½, rounded down. Those abilities that refer
to exposure to the wine of courage are permanent physiological changes
however, though they can only be granted if the unsullied has been continually
exposed to the wine of courage.

Weapon focus

At 1st, and 2nd level the unsullied gains a weapon focus in one of his
proficiencies.

Rigorous Training

At 1st level the unsullied gains +2 to all extended checks, including those from
exposure, endurance, or deprivation. At 10th level he gets field rigor, increasing
this bonus to +4.

No Death Order

Long term exposure to the wine of courage, coupled with your inhuman
discipline, has increased your ability to fight on after an ordinary man would have
expired. At level 2 you may continue to fight until you reach -2 hitpoints. At
level 7 this improves to -4 hitpoints, -6 at 13th, and -8 at 17th.

Executing Orders

An unsullied is trained to immediately and accurately dispatch orders. At 3rd
level the unsullied gains + 2 to initiative when acting on orders(this initiative is
only relevant if the action he could take would meet his instructions). When
already in combat, the unsullied’s initiative may be upjumped. When he is given
an order, he may move his initiative up 2 steps, in representation of his quick
response to the new order. If he already has the highest initiative, he may reset
to 2 instead. This bonus increases to +3 at 9th level, and +4 at 15th.

(example – Unsullied rolls and has an initiative of 15, his
officer has an initiative of 8. The unsullied is level 16. When the officer barks an
order for the unsullied to charge an enemy, the unsullied need not wait until
initiative 15 is reached. The highest initiative is held by the enemy he will attack,
who has a 16. the unsullied bumps his initiative 1st to 16, then to 3 with his
remaining bonus. He goes before the enemy.)

Spiked Cap

Contingent upon executing his last test, finding a newborn and killing the child in
front of its mother, you have now officially become Unsullied. You are given the
spiked cap. The worst is thought to be behind you. You gain 4 reputation points –
unsullied. Your value as a slave has multiplied. Your reputation may be used as
a +2 synergy bonus when your owner or yourself is attempting to intimidate
somebody, if you would be a relevant factor. If you ever were to become a free
man, your value as a former unsullied would not soon lag. Your reputation,
though vague and ununique would follow you and your dress.

Field Engineering

At 5th level the unsullied has learned how to fortify a position. An unsullied in-
fact, will not sleep in an unfortified location. When used abstractly, this ability
grants all those in the fortified area + 2 to defense, and a – 2 to move silently
and hide checks for all who would attempt to assail it. This bonus increases to
+3(-3) at 13th level, and again to +4(-4) at 18th.

At 13th level, Unsullied are so well disciplined and practiced at this that he may
fortify a camp in ¾’s the time. This improves to ½ at 18th level, but both are
contingent upon the unsullied being allowed to oversee the work.

If situation calls for more detail and less abstraction, unsullied character
should be aided by the GM, in making sensible fortifications. Bonus’s should
manifest more organically specific to the descriptions. Using such rules, the
unsullied bonus should apply to whatever rolls are relevant, as a general bonus.


Holding the Line

An unsullied is unyielding of territory he is defending. At 5th level, he gains a +
1 bonus to both attack and damage with melee weapons, when he moves no
more than 5 feet to engage an enemy, and is actively holding a line. This bonus
increases to + 2 at 11th level, + 3 at 16th, and +4 at 20th.

Fighting as One

At 6th level the unsullied may use the ability aid another as a move equivalent
action. He must be close enough to be of assistance. He may still take an attack
this round as normal. . At 12th level player receives +1 to the aid another
bonuses.


Bonus Feat

At levels 8, 14, and 19, you gain a bonus feat from the following: tough,
endurance, greater fortitude, veteran, heroes effort, hard luck.

Steel Nerve

At 20th level you have built up so many of the toxins in the wine of courage that
you gain an additional permanent +1 to shock value.

Level

1 - Weapon Focus, Rigorous Training +2
2 - No Death Order -2, Weapon Focus
3 – executing orders + 2
4 – Spiked Cap
5 – Field Engineering + 2, Hold The Line + 1
6 – Fighting as One
7 – No Death Order – 4,
8 – Bonus Feat
9 – Executing Orders + 3
10 – Field Rigor +4
11 – Hold the Line + 2
12 – Fighting as One +1
13 – No death order -6, Field Engineering +3
14 – Bonus Feat
15 – Executing Orders + 4
16 – Hold the Line +3
17 – No Death Order – 8,
18 – Field Engineering +4
19 – Bonus Feat
20 – Hold the Line +4, Steel Nerve

Hey Righteous9, I like the effort that you have put into the class. I have a couple of questions for you, and will go ahead and throw my 2 copper stags in while I am at it.
First question, is this ment to be the "regional background" for the Unsullied or a backround feat for them? If it is the actual regional background what do you think about this as a possible rewording?

Unsullied Stock

Regional Beinifits

All Unsullied gain the following benifits:

Favored Skill: Knowledge [Warfare]

+1 bonus to all Intimidate checks. You are Unsullied, yous is a presence of stone. Your training has made you a fericom thing to behold weither standing still or in combat.

+1 to all Will Saves. You are Unsullied, you cannot be shaken, frightened, panicked or intimidated. Nor can you be influenced. It is not that you are strong willed. You have no will. Yours is the will of your owner.

+1 to all Fortitude Saves. You are Unsullied, you have been trained to withstand extream punisment. Pain is a meaningless thing to you.

+2 Reputation as "Ever Loyal". You are Unsullied, you do not disobey orders. You would fall on your sword befor disobaying your master.

Characters from the Unsullied Stock have the option of choising from the following Feats as one of their Background Feats: Enter Feats Here

Restrictions

Castrated: You are Unsullied, you were genteled as a child to make you mor plyabe to your training. This also insures that you can never be seduced into betraying your master.

Lessened Strength. You are Unsullied, your training does not foces on Strength. You are restrected from taking the Brute Feat.

Disguise. You are Unsullied, to hide what you are would be very difficult. Unsullied characters cannot purchase levels of Disguise at 1st level.

Wealth. You are Unsullied, gold holds no sway over you or your actions. You will use the weapons and armor provied by your master. An Unsullied starts with Shortswod, 3 Shortspears, Light Armor, and a Small Shield or Buckler. The Unsullieds Welth Rank is -1.

Second question, what skills do they get? Perhaps a class ability that allows them to make the wine of courage would be heplful.

What about Background Feats? All of the other regional backgrounds have them, any ieads on a few for the Unsullied? Here's an idea for one make the wine of courage a feat similar to Giants Blood.

Wine of Courage

Unsullied do not feel pain as other men do. Years of harsh training and the Wine of Courage in their veins makes them fearless in battle.
Benifit
+3 to Con
+2 to Will
-2 to Strength

Either +2 or +4 con, not plus 3.

Thanks for the response -

Yeah it was meant as a regional background...I hadn't even thought of just making it a background feat - which could probably work too. I know I left out a lot.. Partly because I don't have my book at the moment, to compare to other classes, or to look over the feats.

I thought about offering background feats, but couldn't think off of the top of my head which ones would apply - Something about stubborn didn't work for me either, because it would almost imply an unwillingness to take orders or to succumb...the unsullied are broken men in that way. But in theory, yes there would be optional background feats. I'll add the skills when I get my book back

I like the idea of the wine of courage bonuses being offered as a feat. That would deal with the problem I have with only allowing unsullied to have class- benefits related to the drink, when in theory, anyone could drink the stuff regularly and gain the same benefits. The only problem with it as a feat is that It should be able to wear off maybe, if the unsullied has no access to it.

I was a little light on the regional benefits, and plan to add favored skills and the like, eventually

I figured the -2 to strength (which is harsh I know, but I think fitting), would be offset by the +2 to con, which also serves to improve fort rolls, raise shock value by 1 and increase hitpoints - allowing me to lay off of a lot of other feats and abilities that just boost these things.

Also - willpower was an issue for me. The unsullied seem to have a great deal of willpower, but that will is not their own really. I mean, they are merely extensions of their owner - they can be bent to absolutely any act...sooo I added into the background ways in which they couldn't be manipulated, but decided to leave their willpowers at fighter level.

- on edit, the fact that unsullied is capable of doing any act - of 'willing' himself to do it, could be an argument for a high wilpower I guess, but I think the way an unsullied operates is to not even think about what he is doing. He doesn't balk - there is nothing for his will to overcome.

I like your 'ever loyal' rep. I had the same idea, but thought that a person could actually have this background and not be unsullied. I also thought that, heeding the wise words of others on this board, an unsullied should almost be like a prestige class, except that no class fit in my opinion as a gateway. Instead I thought it would work to make an unsullied like the maester class, in that the 1st few levels represent maester training, but a character is not a maester until he takes the chain. In this case a character is not unsullied until he gets the spiked cap at 4th level. That's when he is awarded 4 reputation poins(Which might be too high - I don't have a good grasp of the application of rep points).

Oh yeah, good point about the money. I should add cannot be bribed, seduced, blackmailed, etc. in the background.

Do the unsullied wear light armor? I wasn't aware of that. If so, I should add that they have light armor proficiency. (I'm kind of concerned about their ability to actually stand their ground anyway, because i ddn't give them any sort of armor proficiency, and didn't go hog-wild with hteir shock value either -- I was going to make up temporary effects of the wine of courage, but haven't, and I'm not sure how that couldn't be abused by other classes, unless I come up with a way to restrict it.

Count the actual Wine of Courage as a poison. I dought that the fresh recrutes and kids are dosed with the same amount as the fullgrown fully trained Unsulied. They are given small does to get them used to it most likely, heck this is probly another good way for the trainers to weed out the weak sickly one from the herd. This way if some min/maxer decides to indulge his seven kngdoms knight in a litle drinky poo, well it won't turn out quiet the way he planed. And if you list it as a 1st level or 4th level ability that they can make their own then thats all they make, no more no less.

....

As far as the Light Armor goes, I added that because of a statement made to Daenerys by the Unsullied Slave Master when she was inspecting them for purchase. I don't have the book with me at the moment but the jist of it was that the Unsullied came in the armor they had on , equiped with shortsword, and their three shortspears, and a shield if I am not mistaken. The disription of what they wore sounded like leather armor to me, I pictured the armor that Russle Crow had on in the movie Gladiator or something like it. The Slave Master told Daenerys that they would wear what ever armor their masters told them to but that was all that they came with she would have to supply anything else that she wanted them to have.

It sounds like a good idea to make the wine of courage something that makes you ill until you build up an immunity of sorts to it.
The unsullied could either have this immunity packaged in the regional background, or it could be a general feat that an unsullied gets automatically at an early level. Anybody else could get the same immunity but would have to take it as a feat.


Westeros.org found that unsullied came with sandals and a quilted tunic. Should that be a 1 or a 2 to damage resistance?, More importantly, would it be considered light armor? That would justify a proficiency I guess.

Sounds like Padded Leather Armor to me. B)

This seems to imply that they would be capable of wearing/fighting in any armor, though that may seem a bit overdoing it. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting.

I think that may be overdoing it; the unsullied aren't sold in Westeros, where heavy armor and the like would be the norm, and I can't imagine the slavers training the unsullied in use of heavy armors that appear to be largely absent from their culture (not to mention the cost of furnishing a slave with such armor).

Okay, here is an updated version. Some things have been moved around and a couple things have been removed or changed. Giving the unsullied a low willpower bothers me, but it bothers me to give them a high willpower also, so right now it matches that of the fighter. Maybe it should be somewhere in the middle instead, I'm not sure.


Background – Unsullied Stock

As a young boy you were taken and genitally mutilated. From five years old you
have Endured rigorous training and you are one of the 1 in 3 survivors of that
training. You Know that you are less than nothing. You are dirt and scum. You
have learned not to love. You may hate pain but you fear nothing. There is
nothing that can be done to you that you do not deserve – that you will shy from.
There is no order you will not obey. You were given a puppy, and took care of it
for a year. When you were told to strangle
it you didn’t hesitate.

Penalties –

Castrated
- 2 strength.
You do not disobey orders
You take only what is given you

Benefits

+2 constitution
You cannot be shaken, frightened, panicked or intimidated. Nor can you be
influenced. It is not that you are strong willed. You have no will. Yours is the
will of your owner.

You are not driven by greed. You cannot be bribed or blackmailed

Characters get a – 2 to sense motive checks against you.

Favored Skill - Profession(soldier)

Note – there are stories of unsullied going soft. It is possible for unsullied to change. An unsullied who becomes a free man may learn the value of money, and may learn love or personal will. If any of these things happen, many of the disadvantages and advantages to this background will slide away.

The feat, Weaned on the Wine should be taken with the Unsullied Stock background.
……………………

Feat (background)– Weaned on the Wine of Courage

This slowly dulling formula of toxins takes many years to see appreciable
effects. This feat is a background feat, though it can be taken at a later time in a
character’s development, than 1st level. But it must be demonstrated and
accepted by the gm, that the character had access to this wine, and has been
drinking it daily for at least 3 years. A character weaned on the wine has +2
shock value, and cannot be tortured to breaking..The effects of this wine are not
wholly permanent, and a long dearth of exposure can finally clean one’s system
of the benefits. A year of sobriety from the wine of courage will essentially
negate this feat.

…………………..

Wine of Courage –

The wine of courage has been called the secret to the unsullied. It is made up of
nightshade, bloodfly larva, black lotus root, and many secret things. The
unsullied drink it from the time they are cut, and with each passing year, feel less
and less.


UNSULLIED

Prerequisites - background - unsullied stock, must have been in the possession of
slavers up to this point. Most of your remembered life, you have
been training to be an unsullied. This class cannot be cross-
classed to.

Hitpoints

You gain 10 hit-points at 1st level + con bonus, and 3 every level thereafter.

Influence

You gain only your charisma modifier in influence per level.

Weapon Proficiencies

You are proficient with the short sword, all spears, and shields.

Skillpoints

You gain (3+int)x4+4 skill points at 1st level, and 3+int +1 each additional level
thereafter.


Class Skills

Balance, climb, intimidate, jump, knowledge (local area), listen, profession
(soldier), spot, survival, swim.


Cross-Classing

There may be reasons for which an unsullied might cross-class. This is
acceptable, so long as it is reasonable – slavers might train a group of unsullied
in hunting, and then return them to their standard training…etc. but they would
never train them in maestery, or godsworn. Anything that might enlighten or
confuse would not be appropriate – or put better, such cross-classing would put
an end to any further advancement as an unsullied – however raider, man-at-
arms, and hunter classes may be appropriate. Cross classing before reaching
4th level in Unsullied is unlikely at best.

………………………

Weapon focus

At 2nd, and 3rd level the unsullied gains a weapon focus in one of his
proficiencies.

Rigorous Training

At 1st level the unsullied gains +2 to all extended checks, including those from
exposure, endurance, or deprivation. At 10th level he gets field rigor, increasing
this bonus to +4.

No Death Order

Long term exposure to the wine of courage, coupled with your inhuman
discipline, has increased your ability to fight on after an ordinary man would have
expired. At level 2 you may continue to fight until you reach -2 hitpoints. At
level 7 this improves to -4 hitpoints, -6 at 13th, and -8 at 17th.

Executing Orders

An unsullied is trained to immediately and accurately dispatch orders. At 3rd
level the unsullied gains + 2 to initiative when acting on orders(this initiative is
only relevant if the action he could take would meet his instructions). When
already in combat, the unsullied’s initiative may be upjumped. When he is given
an order, he may move his initiative up 2 steps, in representation of his quick
response to the new order. If he already has the highest initiative, he may reset
to 2 instead. This bonus increases to +3 at 9th level, and +4 at 15th.

(example – Unsullied rolls and has an initiative of 15, his
officer has an initiative of 8. The unsullied is level 16. When the officer barks an
order for the unsullied to charge an enemy, the unsullied need not wait until
initiative 15 is reached. The highest initiative is held by the enemy he will attack,
who has a 16. the unsullied bumps his initiative 1st to 16, then to 3 with his
remaining bonus. He goes before the enemy.)

Spiked Cap

Contingent upon executing his last test, finding a newborn and killing the child in
front of its mother, you have now officially become Unsullied. You are given the
spiked cap. The worst is thought to be behind you. You gain 4 reputation points –
unsullied. Your value as a slave has multiplied. Your reputation may be used as
a +2 synergy bonus when your owner or yourself is attempting to intimidate
somebody, if you would be a relevant factor. If you ever were to become a free
man, your value as a former unsullied would not soon lag. Your reputation,
though vague and ununique would follow you and your dress.

Field Engineering

At 5th level the unsullied has learned how to fortify a position. An unsullied in-
fact, will not sleep in an unfortified location. When used abstractly, this ability
grants all those in the fortified area + 2 to defense, and a – 2 to move silently
and hide checks for all who would attempt to assail it. This bonus increases to
+3(-3) at 13th level, and again to +4(-4) at 18th.

At 13th level, Unsullied are so well disciplined and practiced at this that he may
fortify a camp in ¾’s the time. This improves to ½ at 18th level, but both are
contingent upon the unsullied being allowed to oversee the work.

If situation calls for more detail and less abstraction, unsullied character
should be aided by the GM, in making sensible fortifications. Bonus’s should
manifest more organically specific to the descriptions. Using such rules, the
unsullied bonus should apply to whatever rolls are relevant, as a general bonus.


Holding the Line

An unsullied is unyielding of territory he is defending. At 5th level, he gains a +
1 bonus to both attack and damage with melee weapons, when he moves no
more than 5 feet to engage an enemy, and is actively holding a line. This bonus
increases to + 2 at 11th level, + 3 at 16th, and +4 at 20th.

Fighting as One

At 6th level the unsullied may use the ability aid another as a move equivalent
action. He must be close enough to be of assistance. He may still take an attack
this round as normal. . At 12th level player receives +2 to the aid another
bonuses.


Bonus Feat



At levels 8, 14, and 19, you gain a bonus feat from the following: tough,
endurance, greater fortitude, veteran, heroes effort, hard luck, armor
proficiency (medium), weapon proficiency(any), weapon specialization,
critical (improved), accuracy.


Level -------------------------------------- ------BAB---Defense---Fort -- Ref -Will

1 - Rigorous Training +2-------------------------- +1 ---- +0 ----+2----0----0
2 - No Death Order -2, Weapon Focus------------+ 2 ----+1--- +3-----0----0
3 – executing orders + 2, Weapon Focus---------+3-----+2----+3---+1---+1
4 – Spiked Cap--------------------------------------+4------+3----+4---+1---+1
5 –Hold The Line + 1 -------------------------------+5 -----+3----+4---+1---+1
6 – Fighting as One------------------------------ +6/1------ +4----+5---+2---+2
7 – No Death Order –4, Field Engineering +2 --+7/2------+5---+5--+2----+2- rep+1
8 – Bonus Feat------------------------------------+8/3------ +6----+6--+2---+2
9 – Executing Orders +3------------------------ +9/4-------+6----+7--+3---+3
10 – Field Rigor +4-------------------------------- +10/5-----+7----+7--+3---+3
11 – Hold the Line + 2---------------------------- +11/6/1-- +8----+8--+3---+3
12 – Fighting as One +2 ---------------- ---------+12/7/2---+9----+8--+4---+4
13 – No death order -6, Field Engineering +3--+13/8/3----+9----+9--+4---+4--rep+1
14 – Bonus Feat---------------------------------- +14/9/4---+10----+9--+4--+4
15 – Executing Orders +4------------------------+15/10/5--+11---+10--+5--+5
16 – Hold the Line +3----------------------------+16/11/6/1--+12-+10--+5---+5
17 – No Death Order –8,------------------------+17/12/7/2-- +12--+11--+5---+5
18 – Field Engineering +4-----------------------+18/13/8/3---+13--+11--+6---+6
19 – Bonus Feat----------------------------------+19/14/9/4---+14--+12--+6---+6
20 – Hold the Line +4---------------------------+20/15/10/5--+15--+12--+6---+6--rep+1

I hate it when that happens...

I was reading through the bloodrider and realized they already had an ability that gave bonuses to aid another, and it isn't as gross as the one I made for the unsullied, so I probably need to change that...

so for Fighting as One, maybe aid another continues to be a move equivalent action, but that it only gives 1/2 the aid another bonus at 6th, and then the full bonus at 12th.

Is that reset to 20?

...in your example the unsullied should have an initiative of 19.

I don't know where 3 comes from...

I thought it should be relative, meaning that the range for initiatives should be from whoever gets the highest initiative through to 1.

Therefore, if the highest initiative is 16, and the unsullied has a 15, and we count down until 8th initiative when he is ordered to do something, he adds 4 points to his initiatve. a 20 would not be an advantage, because once you are at the top of the range, you must still just wait until the previous turn ends before you act. Instead, you get to accelerate your action 4 intervals sooner, which would actually put your next action on the 1st turn, at initiative 3, and would also occur ahead of any player with an initiative of 2 or 1.

Perhaps we run initiative differently. You'll have to forgive me for being dense but this is how I understand it.

In your example, counting down the 16 would go first, then the unsullieds 15 (unless they had a bonus) then the officer goes at 8. If he gives an order the unsullied get his +4 next round. the unsullied acts at 15 next but with his +4 bonus his init would be 19.

Why not just give the unsullied the bonus any time a commanding officer is present, assuming they will be constantly issuing orders. That way its just a simple +2 or +4 to init.

I think I see the problem ---

I'm suggesting more than just an initiative bonus. I'll give a full example.


There is a giant an ent and a martian fighting against an unsullied and his owner.

The respective initiatives are this, Martian 16, Unsullied 15, owner 8, ent 7 and giant 2.

The 1st round goes like this. On 16, the martian attacks the unsullied. On 15, the unsullied responds by attacking back, and for the sake of this example running the martian through. On 8, his owner commands him to defend him by throwing himself against the giant. On 7 the ent pretends to be a tree. --- Here's the advantage. Because the unsullied is 16th level and gets a +4 initiative shift during combat, he doesn't wait until turn two to act. His initiative goes from 15 to 16(because it is the very highest in the battle), and then to 3. This allows him to act in the 1st turn a second time, and before the giant, who's initiative is 2.

If on the other hand, an unsullied's initiative were a 4, and his owner's, a 5, the best he could do would be to act on the same initiative, reseting his initiative to 5.

That's the gist of it anyway. I don't think this would be too powerful, but I could be wrong.

- on edit I can see how this could be abused, and need to add that the order must be a new one. It cannot be an order to continue attacking the same enemy...etc. It must shift the unsullied's focus to a new threat.

Yeah, initiative only matters in the first round of combat, anyway.

Why not give the unsullied a standard action upon recieving an order in combat if he has already taken his actions. That is essentially whay the ability grants them, yes?

I think this is too much...I'm not opposed to them geting a circumstancial action but the requirements need to be more strict and the trigger should have some limits.

That's nuts. No way should the unsullied get an extra action every round in combat.

Well it isn't really an extra turn per combat though. In that example it was 2 in the 1st round, but it really only changed the order of attacks because I gave an example of somebody with a 2 initiative. The unsullied went on 15 and then on 3. The next turn his owner would go on 8 and he would go on 7 if given new orders. The turn after that they would both go on the same initiative. It's not an extra attack per round. And my example used a 15th level unsullied. At 3rd level, he only gets a +2 to his initiative jump(maybe it would be better if it started at +1, though? maybe a total of +4 is just too powerful, but a total of +2 at high level could be a slight boon but not so devestating compared to other abilities?)

It really doesn't allow for an unsullied to pummel the same character twice to his one action, because the order he is given must shift his target for him to gain the bonus, and because 1 on 1, there are rare initiative intervals where this would allow for a double attack.

I don't know though...I just thought it could be nifty because it was a unique effect, and because I thought it could fit well with the lack of hesitation or contemplation that the unsullied demonstrate when taking orders. Yes, depending on how the initiatives play out, this can be really powerful, but it could also be almost insignificant

Just my 2¢ but I would just go with a bonus to initiative.

Righteous: I really see the potental for abuse here...clever players break everything.

Perhaps you could let the unsullied choose after the roll to apply the 2 or 4 as a bonus or a penalty, In effect letting them choose from a range when they act. Their intense training and disceplin have enabled them to better react and can often choose when to make their move.(or when ordered to whatever.)

Also, I should put in a description somewhere that once given an order, the unsullied cannot excercise any sort of prudence what-so-ever(probably under background restrictions). That is, he will continue to follow it until the task is done or a new order is given, inspite of new circumstances. He will not use full defense when suddenly being flanked by 3 men...he will not retreat to safety, or target the easier opponent, etc. This could make taking orders somewhat of a double-edged-sword for unsullied.

Yeah, I'm not ready to drop it as a mechanic, but I understand the concern. The problem with your alternative is that can't anybody reset their initiative to lower at any time, just by holding?

I'm going to try making up example characters and see how I can abuse this, versus other possible man-at-arms builds..etc.

That's true...you can hold your action. Going first in Agot is still a really big deal. At the very least consider removing the part about going again in the first round. Once the order is given the unsullied's next action (to follow the order) is at +2/4 init. This is still cool. :)

I agree I guess...besides, it was getting really ugly trying to create a mechanic for looping back to earlier turn...wasn't sure where to put the cap...one above the highest, or at like 20(unless somebody had a higher initiative than 20), etc.

How about this:
Executing Orders: at 4th level, once per day, if the Unsullied's commander spends a standard action directing the Unsullied, the Unsullied get 1 move action immediately on that commander's turn. For every additional 4 levels, the Unsullied get one more use of Executing Orders per day. Only one extra move action per round possible, and the commander must say that he is making use of the Unsullied's Executing Orders, or in role-playing terms, "taking advantage of their quickness to obey orders to set up a better tactical situation". :D

An additional move action, once per day, doesn't allow anything broken like extra attacks or anything, but does put the Unsullied in a better tactical position once per day. In story terms, seeing the Unsullied leap to obey faster than any man could have or should have been able to should shake up those facing them.

Just my half-groat. Of course, always feel free to slap it down.

That's a creative and cool idea. I don't think it's unbalanced at all.

Now, should they still get a bonus to initiative? Or no because the quickness is born directly from following orders and not on "all the time".

Good thinking Vort. :D

I guess that could work too, though I almost feel like that's a little on the weak side, especially since you are requiring a standard action of the officer/owner/lord...etc.


I have a couple other problems too, or at least they seem like problems.

The way I have the unsullied specked, there is really very little room for individuality, which is by design, but also makes the class more redundant.

Also, the fighting as one ability seems like it wouldn't get used, at least not at the level when the unsullied get it, because it would besically be better to just use one's second attack. It would be a chance at damage and would still reduce the enemy's ac by 2. I could just power it back up, to where I had it, but then it becomes better than the bloodrider ability. Maybe if I just made it come earlier in the unsullied's development? Any suggestions on this?

It should be a move action from the commanding officer not a standard action. That would enable a leader to use it in combat a bit more easily. And it makes sence. issuing an order is not that complecated..."attack here, Defend there, etc..."

For the aid another ability, how about at applying the aid bonuses to both attack and defence? Citing that they are so in tune to fighting with one another that they provide openings and watch one anothers back in combat.

sounds good to me...thanks for the reply.

No offense, but I hardly think anyone would want to play as a eunuch and have to take orders from whoever owned you.

Just my opinion though.

and a totally valid opinion at that....it is a problem with the class - I don't mind the eunoch thing for characterization, but the lack of personality or personal will is a drawback...

I envisioned any levels in this as a starting point, not an end point. Maybe you're playing a campaign where everybody is 6th level at the beginning, and your Unsullied has just been released from bondage...don't know why one would ever need all 20 levels...but the class could still be used to represent an NPC.

As an NPC class this would be great, and I guess you could incorporate that your character was an Unsullied, except that I don't think that you can reverse the effects of what happens when you becoming an unsullied (they train you just to take orders and become some heartless bastard after all)...but, I suppose that if you wanted to have a very interesting character, he could have trained to become an unsullied, but then somehow resisted the teachings, and in the end ran away

Interesting concept and good execution, you've got enough comments from others on the bulk of the class. Here's one thing I find odd though:

Eunuchs would get -2 Str, when women in the game don't have a Str penalty. The castration is mentioned as keeping them from getting so strong as other men, but they can certainly be strong, and I doubt their potential physical strength is less than most women (Brienne being a notable exception). Just make sure the class encourages more focus, discipline, and tactics than brute strength. And with the other 'background' stuff, I'd just work those into the class abilities.